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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by wasatchback View Post
    It will be pretty much impossible to tell the 2011/12 from the 2012/13 from looking at both but once you slip your foot in
    it will be obvious. Sorry that doesn't help but if a shop has a Cochise 120 for sale right now there's a good chance that
    it's a 2011/12 boot (especially if they have limited sizes). The 2012/2013 boots didn't start shipping out from NH until
    the beginning of this week so shops should hopefully have them on the wall early next week.

    Cochise Lights won't arrive form Yurp until 10/10 unfortunately.
    Great info, thanks! I'm assuming the 12/13 Cochise will also have the new tech soles with the updated inserts, right?

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by crank54 View Post
    Great info, thanks! I'm assuming the 12/13 Cochise will also have the new tech soles with the updated inserts, right?
    Yup they will

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by wasatchback View Post
    Cochise Lights won't arrive form Yurp until 10/10 unfortunately.
    My local shop will be picking them up today, so I guess they got here early.

  4. #79
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    Just tried the Pro 130s on, no Cochise Lights to be found yet. One thing I noticed is when in touring mode when my leg is pushing the cuff backwards, I could feel the upper part of the lower shell digging in around my achilles. Anyone else notice this? I wonder if I could fix that somehow?

  5. #80
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    I bought the 130 pro today. They didn't have the 120's yet, but I tried the 110's and pros side by side, and need the narrower last.

    One thing me and the fitter noticed was that there was not any big appreciable stiffness difference between the two. Maybe it has something to do with being in a warm shop and not on the mountain.

    Another big plus for me is more room in the instep on the pros over my falcons, which always caused my feet to go to sleep.

  6. #81
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    Is it possible to order the new liners? Last years definitely hurt my shins and my feet sweat to much in the aftermarket stuff. I am intrigued my this years liner.
    "Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will..."

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by kona12 View Post
    Is it possible to order the new liners? Last years definitely hurt my shins
    I'm glad I'm not the only one...

  8. #83
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    So, I'm looking ro replace my Agent 130's with either the Pro 130 or the Pro Light. Which one has the most forward lean, and will it be possible to modify the forward flex on either of them? I ski my 130's with the top rivet removed and like them much better that way than with them both in place.

    I'll size down to a 26,5 (my feet are 28,3 and 28,5), and buy on the internet assuming they have a fit roughly like the Agents.

    I was going to get new liners for my old boots, but selling off those and my touring boots look to finance a new purchase, lets me size down for a better longterm fit and buy shiny new boots. Win.
    simen@downskis.com DOWN SKIS

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiSt View Post
    So, I'm looking ro replace my Agent 130's with either the Pro 130 or the Pro Light. Which one has the most forward lean, and will it be possible to modify the forward flex on either of them? I ski my 130's with the top rivet removed and like them much better that way than with them both in place.

    I'll size down to a 26,5 (my feet are 28,3 and 28,5), and buy on the internet assuming they have a fit roughly like the Agents.

    I was going to get new liners for my old boots, but selling off those and my touring boots look to finance a new purchase, lets me size down for a better longterm fit and buy shiny new boots. Win.
    Which Agent 130s are you in? All generations of Agent 130s were 98mm lasts even though there were two different molds over their life span. If you were in a 98mm last you should stay there so the Cochise 130 would be the way to go, light would be too wide. I would say you will like the flex of the 130, you probably won't need to soften it like you did your Agent 130s.

    All Cochise boots have the same forward lean. They will be slightly more upright (I think 2*) than your Agents but you could just try to find a thicker spoiler if you want a little more lean.

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by kona12 View Post
    Is it possible to order the new liners? Last years definitely hurt my shins and my feet sweat to much in the aftermarket stuff. I am intrigued my this years liner.
    Contact Tecnica USA, they should be able to hook you up. http://2.tecnicausa.com/contactus/contactus.html
    Last edited by hrdude; 09-30-2012 at 09:57 PM.

  11. #86
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    Thanks wasatchback. I have the purple and black ones. Def. bought them as a 98mm boot, but they fit way better (and wider) than other 98mm boots I've had on my feet. Curious as to how much wider the 100mm last really is, as I can't see 2mm making too much of a difference.

    Looks like I will be going for the pro 130, thanks again.
    simen@downskis.com DOWN SKIS

  12. #87
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    Just got back from 3 hours at Larry's. I really, really wanted the Cochise Pro to work - mostly for the Dynafit compatibility, but also because it's got the best walk mode I've ever felt. Range of movement is amazing; I can imagine skinning in those things would be money (or at least, walking to the bar). And the top buckle/strap hybrid is a great idea.

    But, unfortunately, it's not to be for me. This was my third time trying them on, and I have to just admit it: they don't fit my feet very well. The forefoot area in the Cochise is high volume, and I've got a pretty low-volume foot. With the heel relatively solid, I'm swimming in the front of them. Whereas the Lange XT130 fits me like a glove; barely any work necessary (just need to make a little room for the pinky toe) and they feel like they were made for my feet. Too bad, as the Lange's walk mode is no where near as good and they don't have a tech sole option. But in the end, you gotta go with what fits.

    I'm hoping the Langes stiffen up in the cold, as I'm told they will (Larry offered to pop the shells in the freezer for 10 min to see what they feel like cold, which I might do). But in general, I guess I've got a "Lange foot". This was a lesson in forcing myself not to cave into my irrational desire to get the Cochise, which I'd convinced myself was the best option (based in part on Marshal's glowing reviews). THE BEST BOOT IS THE BOOT THAT FITS.
    Last edited by Pegleg; 10-07-2012 at 09:05 PM.
    Outlive the bastards - Ed Abbey

  13. #88
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    Was that the 12/13 Pro 130? With a slightly smaller last?

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tutuko View Post
    Was that the 12/13 Pro 130? With a slightly smaller last?
    Yup.

    1234
    Outlive the bastards - Ed Abbey

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pegleg View Post
    (based in part on Marshal's glowing reviews). THE BEST BOOT IS THE BOOT THAT FITS.
    Interesting. I would not look at my several reviews on the Cochise line as glowing. More like "continuing chronicle of modification" that is required to get the things to fit.

    So while I certainly agree that the best boot is the one that fits best, it also comes down to the skiers willingness to pour time and money into the thing vs. better fit out of the box, but with compromises in the features.

    So anyhow, my point in my reviews is that the Cochise has the features I want (and is the only boot out there with all the features I want), but not the fit I am after, so since I am unwilling to compromise in the features, or the features are impossible to add, I keep working on the fit, which is much easier.

    Pip pip Cheerio!
    go for rob

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  16. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pegleg View Post
    Yup.

    1234


    Yea, they have lots of volume for being a 97. Can pretty much tell just by looking at them.


    I think i'll get mine to work.



    Another year or two and everybody will have a walk boot.

  17. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by marshalolson View Post
    Interesting. I would not look at my several reviews on the Cochise line as glowing. More like "continuing chronicle of modification" that is required to get the things to fit.

    So while I certainly agree that the best boot is the one that fits best, it also comes down to the skiers willingness to pour time and money into the thing vs. better fit out of the box, but with compromises in the features.

    So anyhow, my point in my reviews is that the Cochise has the features I want (and is the only boot out there with all the features I want), but not the fit I am after, so since I am unwilling to compromise in the features, or the features are impossible to add, I keep working on the fit, which is much easier.

    Pip pip Cheerio!
    Interesting, and thanks for the clarification. I would say your review of the features (as opposed to fit) of the Cochise was pretty glowing; you seem very happy with the feature set.

    As far as fit, I think that your preferences probably have something to do with the fact that you do this professionally and are capable of modifying your boots yourself. I spent a winter many years ago in boots that didn't fit that well visiting Larry every week, and I'd rather avoid that (takes a lot of time out of work or skiing, since he's open only during the day). If I knew how to do all this in the evening at home I think I'd be more willing to take on a boot with a "project" fit and keep tweaking it. Maybe I'm wrong, of course, but your reviews make it sound like you enjoy (or at least, have time for) the process of extensive tweaking, while I'm more in the camp of wanting a boot that fits great with minimal effort.

    But you've now make me wonder if I'm making the wrong choice in compromising on the Langes because they fit well out of the box, even thought they don't have the full feature set I want. Hmmm.
    Outlive the bastards - Ed Abbey

  18. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pegleg View Post
    As far as fit, I think that your preferences probably have something to do with the fact that you do this professionally and are capable of modifying your boots yourself.
    indeed very true.

    i think the big thing is KNOWING exactly what you are after, and having the patience to keep trying things until you get them to work.

    the point of the reviews, at least IMO, is to discuss thoroughly what, exactly i did to a boot, why, and what the results were. basically none of the modifications i have every done in blister reviews required anything you could not do at home (molding liners, steaming shells, adding bontex, foam pads).

    anyhow, IMO, you buy a shell based on features and make sure its the correct size. you then modify the shell for your foot anatomy, and then you separately evaluate a liner to fine-tune the shell/foot buffer zone.

    need your fore-foot more secure than stock? go to a foam-injected liner.
    need your heel pocket more secure, but more space in the toe pocket? zipfit.
    need warmth and even compression on a snug fit, relative to stock? go for an intuition.




    anyhow, just curious, what size XT are you looking at? what size cochise did you try on? did you try any of them on with your old liners, or just the new stock ones?
    go for rob

    www.dpsskis.com

  19. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pegleg View Post
    The forefoot area in the Cochise is high volume, and I've got a pretty low-volume foot. With the heel relatively solid, I'm swimming in the front of them. Whereas the Lange XT130 fits me like a glove; barely any work necessary (just need to make a little room for the pinky toe) and they feel like they were made for my feet. Too bad, as the Lange's walk mode is no where near as good and they don't have a tech sole option. But in the end, you gotta go with what fits.
    hmm, did you feel a difference in the instep and the heel area also (cochise vs. lange)?
    i thought the instep was lower volume in the tecnica, no ? Also, was it the narrower lange?

    I need lower volume in the instep and forefoot - i thought the cochise pro was the better fit....

  20. #95
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    For me... the amount of instep room in the Lange XT 130's vs. Cochise Pro 130's seemed about the same, but the heel hold was noticeably better in the Cochise. (stock liners for both using the same custom insole)

  21. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by marshalolson View Post
    anyhow, just curious, what size XT are you looking at? what size cochise did you try on? did you try any of them on with your old liners, or just the new stock ones?
    I tried 28.5 XT130 and 28.0 Cochise Pro (also a size smaller in each, but those were too small). I used my old footbed, but stock liners on both.

    Your theory of fitting is interesting, and while it makes sense it runs counter to most of what you hear on these boards and in boot shops. Usually the response to "what's the best boot?" is "whatever boot fits you," but it sounds like you're saying that any shell that's sized right can be made to fit if you like it and are willing to put in enough effort. Is that a fair reading?
    Outlive the bastards - Ed Abbey

  22. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by salx View Post
    hmm, did you feel a difference in the instep and the heel area also (cochise vs. lange)?
    i thought the instep was lower volume in the tecnica, no ? Also, was it the narrower lange?

    I need lower volume in the instep and forefoot - i thought the cochise pro was the better fit....
    Mostly in the instep and forefoot, somewhat (but less so) in the heel. It is the regular Lange (not the LV). The bootfitter I worked with said that Technica was the highest-volume of the boots I was looking at (Salomon, Technica, Lange, Nordica).
    Outlive the bastards - Ed Abbey

  23. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pegleg View Post
    I tried 28.5 XT130 and 28.0 Cochise Pro (also a size smaller in each, but those were too small). I used my old footbed, but stock liners on both.

    Your theory of fitting is interesting, and while it makes sense it runs counter to most of what you hear on these boards and in boot shops. Usually the response to "what's the best boot?" is "whatever boot fits you," but it sounds like you're saying that any shell that's sized right can be made to fit if you like it and are willing to put in enough effort. Is that a fair reading?
    well, yes and no.

    every shell has a different shape, and there is no reason to get the wrong shape if the right one exists. but a lot of shells are pretty similar in shape, when compared apples to apples. as an example a 26.5 cochise pro shell is pretty similar in internal shape to a 27.5 RX/XT LV/97mm. a 26.5 cochise 120/light is pretty similar in shape to a 27.5 RX/XT 100mm. maybe 3mm of shell fit different, but the heel pocket and toe box is pretty similar.

    my point is that you care a lot more about how well the shell fits your foot, opposed to the liner. trying on a new liner inside an unfamiliar shell tells you more about how the liner fits...

    doing the fine-tuning mods to a shell to make it "exact" should probably be done regardless of boot, but generally would only follow getting the correct liner in the boot first-off. using an injected foam liner to take up a little space here or there, or locking the foot down is easy, adding foam pads to take up space on the foot is easy. a good boot fitter can knock that stuff out quickly without issue.

    stock liners are, by and large, often ill-matched to the shells they accompany (imo).

    i would argue that the 28.5 pro SHELL is too big for you, but the LINER is the correct size (the entire point of my cochise pro review, and the reason its 3000+ words long, and why i go on and on about trying different liners!), and since the shell is too big, you can move your foot around and have it feel "roomy". I would argue the reason the 27.5 cochise pro felt too small is because the liner is short-lasted to fit a 27cm foot, not because the shell itself is the wrong size for you. i can't say whether you want the cochise or not, or if the lange fits better or not, but my suggestion would be to try the 27.5 shell of the cochise on with a 28.5 liner and see how it feels. also try the shell on with the same liner in both boots, so you can get a better apples to apples comparison between the lange and tecnica. be sure to try both boots on with your old liners, so at least you can understand what the boots might feel like later in the liner's life.

    you can dramatically alter the fit of a boot based on what liner is selected. stick a thin leather race boot liner in there and your foot will be swimming all over. put a non-formed intuition in there and your foot will be crushed. put a zipfit in there and you will massively boost the heel hold, foam inject a liner and suck up all the space in the tongue and forefoot. etc etc.

    if the stock liner has a weird stitch on it somewhere that adds pressure, the "boot" might feel like its too small, but maybe its a matter of simply relieving the stitching and re-sealing with glue and creating some space. i dunno. lots of hypotheticals.

    ok, rant over. likely none of that is useful, sorry! maybe a stupid anecdote instead:

    if you are trying on shoes do you switch for different pairs of socks with radically different thickness and amounts of padding with each shoe you try on, and randomly stick toe caps on some of the shoes? this same variation exists when you try on shells all with the stock liners and don't compare the shells to one-another more directly.
    Last edited by marshalolson; 10-08-2012 at 03:34 PM.
    go for rob

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  24. #99
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    Marshal, that's super helpful. Thanks for taking the time to explain. I like the shell of the Technica better enough that I may well be willing to spend more time to get it right, and I love the idea of trying the 27.5 shell with the 28.5 liner (and/or my old powerwrap liner).

    Larry speaks very highly of you, btw.
    Outlive the bastards - Ed Abbey

  25. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pegleg View Post
    Larry speaks very highly of you, btw.
    likewise. we go way back. solid dude, that one.

    for sure try all your potential new boots with the old power wraps. it should give you a much better idea how the shell fits relative to one-another and the old boots.

    good luck!!!
    go for rob

    www.dpsskis.com

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