2013 Tecnica Cochise boot line

**marshalolson** · 09-05-2012, 10:10 AM

Originally Posted by Z

well,shows what I know. I though I heard they had some sort of cool locking mechanism...

they have a hacked off lower cuff and a walk mode with play.

the XT would be fine for "most people". as you know, dside is not "most people".

**crank54** · 09-05-2012, 11:33 AM

Originally Posted by bern43

I ran some intuition power wraps with the stock buckle strap on my 120s last year. It took me a bit of time to dial in the strap thing, but once you get it set it's pretty convenient to be able to just flip it open for the walk mode without worrying about readjusting again. I'm over 200lbs and the stiffness on this set up was fine for me.

I definitely agree on the coolness/convenience of the strap/buckle combo - it's a great idea! My plan is to try to combine the elastic Booster strap element with the stock buckle device and create some sort of best-of-both-worlds hybrid system. I'll report back with my success, or lack thereof.

**XavierD** · 09-05-2012, 01:13 PM

I thought the XT did a better job of creating a rigid spine than the Cochise. I am in the Cochise because of weight and dynafit compatibility. If I was just skiing in bounds I would use the XT. The Cochise series cuts out much more of the lower than the XT does.

**marshalolson** · 09-05-2012, 02:31 PM

the XT has a giant pie-cut right out of where the spine would be on the RS/RX, and the cuff lock is into a folding, soft plastic secondary flap (i.e. not the lower shell).

the cochise shell is slightly lower, but the upper cuff firmly engages directly to the lower with a rigid piece of metal creating a rigid spine.

The cochise upper shell, however is not as stiff or tall as a PU race boot (or the XT), so overall, the comparison is not exactly apples to apples.

**XavierD** · 09-05-2012, 02:50 PM

Originally Posted by marshalolson

the XT has a giant pie-cut right out of where the spine would be on the RS/RX, and the cuff lock is into a folding, soft plastic secondary flap (i.e. not the lower shell).

the cochise shell is slightly lower, but the upper cuff firmly engages directly to the lower with a rigid piece of metal creating a rigid spine.

The cochise upper shell, however is not as stiff or tall as a PU race boot (or the XT), so overall, the comparison is not exactly apples to apples.

That folding soft plastic flap does a good job of filling in the pie-cut out and creating a progressive flex. YMMV

**wasatchback** · 09-05-2012, 07:27 PM

Originally Posted by XavierD

I thought the XT did a better job of creating a rigid spine than the Cochise. I am in the Cochise because of weight and dynafit compatibility. If I was just skiing in bounds I would use the XT. The Cochise series cuts out much more of the lower than the XT does.

The two boots are designed differently. Cochise (Demon) was designed from day 1 to have a walk function. In order to achieve adequate range of motion you have to eliminate material in the back of the lower so you ankle can flex back. Cochise range of motion is not as good as some AT boots but it's not bad and better than any Alpine brand offerings. In order to achieve an ideal stiffness the upper is locked to the lower when put into ski mode, essentially creating a rivet and then the remaining spine of the boot is engineered into the cuff. The inside of the cuff is incredibly thick in the back to give the spine of the boot integrity and a stiff flex. The Demon boots utilize the exact same lower as the Cochise and their flex is comparable across the board to most other brands.

The Lange is a modified existing mold Similar to Quest, Quest Max, Tracker, etc. They cut a notch in the spine so you get some rearward flex when in walk mode. By utilizing the V lock they are able to achieve a stiffer forward flex than the previous Alpine brands attempts however there is nothing that locks the upper to the lower in the back.... Take both rivets out of your Lange RS or RX 130 and what does it do to the flex?

I believe all AT brands lock the upper to the lower when in ski mode some just do it better than others. It doesn't get much better than the TLT walk function which is now on all their new boots. I think it's one of the cooler pieces of engineering in the whole industry. Incredibly simple and very effective.

**XavierD** · 09-05-2012, 10:24 PM

well put, there are trade offs for both boots. For me, the cochise is the best option.

**Island Bay** · 09-06-2012, 05:50 PM

Sorry, just realized the thread is about the 2013 line, so pardon the thread jack.

A sizing question for you.

I just tried on the Bushwacker in both a 27.5 and a 28.5. My foot measures exactly 280mm, and I normally fit a 28 or 28.5.

Doing a shell fit, a had about a finger in the 27.5, probably 20mm in the 28.5. With the (ridiculously poor) liner, the 27.5 still didn't feel like it was squeezing my toes (nice toe box, actually), and the overall fit of the boot was good (I usually have trouble with too much volume over the instep, and I'd definitely use my intuition liners and some bontex/eva), and the flex was very nice.

Would I run into trouble touring/hiking with the 27.5, or could they easily be punched 5mm or so in case?

I have read and re-read all the threads on these boots, and I was just trying to squeeze the last bit of info out. In the 27.5 I could also get the 120 Cochise from the same shop, they just didn't have it available to try today. From what I've read, it's the same last, right?

Cheers

**wasatchback** · 09-06-2012, 09:16 PM

Originally Posted by Island Bay

A sizing question for you.

I just tried on the Bushwacker in both a 27.5 and a 28.5. My foot measures exactly 280mm, and I normally fit a 28 or 28.5.

Doing a shell fit, a had about a finger in the 27.5, probably 20mm in the 28.5. With the (ridiculously poor) liner, the 27.5 still didn't feel like it was squeezing my toes (nice toe box, actually), and the overall fit of the boot was good (I usually have trouble with too much volume over the instep, and I'd definitely use my intuition liners and some bontex/eva), and the flex was very nice.

Would I run into trouble touring/hiking with the 27.5, or could they easily be punched 5mm or so in case?

I have read and re-read all the threads on these boots, and I was just trying to squeeze the last bit of info out. In the 27.5 I could also get the 120 Cochise from the same shop, they just didn't have it available to try today. From what I've read, it's the same last, right?

Cheers

Yup Cochise and Bushwacker are the same last. 2011/12 liners were total crap! 2012/13 liners are a TON better.
You might still have volume in the forefoot (probably not as much) but the heal/ankle padding is way improved. Tighter initial fit that will last longer.

**skier666** · 09-07-2012, 11:55 AM

Thread hijack...I've been using the Dragon 120 for two seasons and now they are dead (cracked shell from heel to Achilles area).

I'm currently a 28.5 in those, but tried on a Bushwacker in a 28.5 last season and they felt extremely small, even though the sole length was larger. There was no 29 to try on. So now I'm interested in the Bodacious 130 or Demon 130 thinking that they may be a similar shell/fit to the old Dragon 120. I've been extremely happy with Tecnicas since the Explosion 8 and never needed any mods other than a footbed.

**marshalolson** · 09-07-2012, 12:00 PM

skier666- did you try the 28.5 bushwhacker as a shell fit? or just with the stock liner? the liner itself is sorta short, but easy to stretch. i would suggest checking the shell fit (i.e. 1cm or smaller), and then look to upsize or whatever.

**skier666** · 09-07-2012, 12:34 PM

Originally Posted by marshalolson

skier666- did you try the 28.5 bushwhacker as a shell fit? or just with the stock liner? the liner itself is sorta short, but easy to stretch. i would suggest checking the shell fit (i.e. 1cm or smaller), and then look to upsize or whatever.

No, just threw it on one day at a shop. It was the only newish Tecnica close to my size the day I was there. I'm tempted to start ordering boots to try on and then return, but I'm guessing the shops will start to get the boots in soon.

**1000-oaks** · 09-08-2012, 10:53 PM

Apparently the Cochise Pro 130 uses the (edit: corrected) Bodacious lower, so shell-fitting a Pro 130 won't be 100% identical to the Cochise Light, Cochise 120 or Cochise 110, which all use the Demon lower. The Bodacious/Cochise Pro 130 is a 98mm last, and other Cochise/Demon lowers are 100mm.

**marshalolson** · 09-09-2012, 06:02 AM

Originally Posted by 1000-oaks

Apparently the Cochise Pro 130 uses the Inferno lower, so shell-fitting a Pro 130 won't be 100% identical to the Cochise Light, Cochise 120 or Cochise 110, which all use the Demon lower. The Inferno / Cochise Pro 130 is a 98mm last, and other Cochise/Demon lowers are 100mm.

it uses the bodacious lower, NOT the inferno lower. the inferno 98mm last is MUCH lower volume than the bodacious 98mm last.

**BigHerm** · 09-10-2012, 05:32 PM

Originally Posted by marshalolson

it uses the bodacious lower, NOT the inferno lower. the inferno 98mm last is MUCH lower volume than the bodacious 98mm last.

I tried on Inferno Blaze's last year and loved the fit, however I really want a sole with traction (and am ambivalent about a walk mode). I couldn't find a bodacious to try on and have not yet tried on the Cochise Pro 130. Can you compare the difference in volume that you describe? Hopefully Footloose will have my size in when I return to Mammoth this Fall.

**XavierD** · 09-10-2012, 05:50 PM

Bodacious has more room over the instep and in front of the ankle. There is also a different heel pocket, and a bit wider toe box in the bodacious/Cochise pro.

**Core Shot** · 09-10-2012, 07:33 PM

have last years boot, liner is suck.

molded Intuition stiffened the boot, but I find them too sweaty, so put my stock salomon alpine liner in there, and it is great.

love the boot

wish I had this years model and flex

**ready2tumble** · 09-10-2012, 08:57 PM

I'm looking at the Pro 130 for the narrow last, but am worried that it might actually be TOO stiff for me at my hulking 145 pounds. (Also thinking about Lange XT's and Salomon Quests, where some of the above commentary makes me think that would not be a concern.)

**BigHerm** · 09-11-2012, 05:52 PM

Thanks for the info Xavi. Proof will be in the fitting.

**1000-oaks** · 09-12-2012, 10:32 PM

Tecnica finally has the 2013 lineup live on its web site: http://shop.tecnicausa.com/Browse/Ski-Boots/Freeride The liner for the Cochise Light looks similar to the Palau Alpine Air Breath, but with a neoprene flex panel and four loops for lacing if desired.

The Palau Alpine Air Breath looks very similar to the recent "G-Fit Rapid" liner found in 2011+ Garmont Radium boots, but apparently the liner is licensed by (but not made by) Palau:

From Wildsnow:

Lou,

To clarify, the Radium change for fall 2010, was BOTH a significant shell/mold change and a liner/last change.
And, another brief note: our liners are not outsourced to Palau. The liners have a Palau label because we license a Palau design patent.
Thank you for your interest in these boots.

Paul Parker
Garmont Product Manager

**verbier61** · 09-13-2012, 12:59 AM

Conor/Marshal, I'm just curious, how would you define the triax plastic vs grlamid and pebax?

**wasatchback** · 09-13-2012, 01:28 PM

Originally Posted by verbier61

Conor/Marshal, I'm just curious, how would you define the triax plastic vs grlamid and pebax?

I am no engineer nor a plastics guru, I'm sure there is someone who knows much more about Plastics than me but this is what I know.

Triax and Pebax are both PP plastics. PP plastic in general is lighter and less temperature sensitive than PU or PE plastic. From what I understand manufacturers use Pebax because it is one of the only lightweight plastics that you can successfully adhere things to (rubber soles on the bottom of a boot). You can adhere to PU and PE but it's heavier. You can't glue to Triax. Tecnica worked with their plastic suppliers to develop a PP based plastic (Triax) that has flex characteristics similar to PU and PE but lighter weight and less temperature sensitivity. The goal was to create a PP plastic that skied really well.

I don't know much about Grilamid. I know it's a nylon based plastic that has been used a lot in sunglasses. Can't find any Info performance wise but I know it's very temperature insensitive, lightweight, you can do a lot with it graphically (it looks good in translucent colors) and it's very tough/impact resistance. It looks like you can adhere to it as well. Polyamide (Scarpa uses) is also nylon based like Grilamid.

**thommy21** · 09-13-2012, 04:27 PM

Quick note on the different resins. Triax is an ABS/Polyamide (Nylon6) blend, and Pebax is a polyether block amide, more of a TPE. Grilamid is Nylon 12 has longer chains making it more PE like with better ductility and UV vs a Nylon 6.

**marshalolson** · 09-13-2012, 04:31 PM

not much to compare, they are totally different, with the bodacious/pro shell being noticeable higher volume, most specifically across the toe box, heel pocket, instep and upper cuff.

if you are a 27 inferno, i would strongly suggest getting a shell fit on a 26 bodacious/pro prior to buying anything.