Thread: Severly damaged bike recvd on shipping - seeking advice

Riddle me this . . .

My buddy and a few other friends met up to ride the San Juan Hut System from Durango to Moab, an absolute blast if you ever decide to ride it.

He is from the east coast so he had to ship his bike after the ride. We bring it to a bike shop in Moab, he gets them a shipping label from BikeFlights, and pays for the packing charges, off we go to the airport.

Bike box arrives, a few insignificant marks on the box and a hole the size of a ping pong ball on the bottom edge (where rear dropout poked through the box). When he pulls the bike out, left seat stay is bent and creased, derailleur hanger is broken off, big ring is bent, and the front shock is blown, the plastic spacer is completely jammed into the fork dropouts as well (more than just normally pressed in). Any loose parts are found scattered on the bottom of the box (pedals, skewers, skewer springs, etc.). Plastic bag that was holding them was completely blown out. Wheels are not visibly damaged.

FedEx says there is no possible way the bike could have sustained the damage during shipping as it went ground and would have never been high enough. There isn't enough damage to the box to warrant the amount of damage that occurred and they speculated that the bike was ridden off of a big drop. The bike shop insists bike was in excellent condition when it left their shop and they properly packed the bike with foam, fork blocks, rear drop out protector and zipties. They also stated that they removed the derailleur hanger before shipping.

Something's fishy here. Probably time to bring in the legal muscle????

It's a 2010 stumpjumper full susser with upgraded mavic crossmax's. Big downer to the end of an incredible trip.

You have the bike shop to stand behind you as to the condition it was in when it left their shop. Get something in writing from them, even if it is an email response. Find as many photos as you can of the bike before the damage. Take well documented photos of the bike and the box. Then start working your way up the feed chain at FedEx until they make it right.

Sorry to here about the damage, but that look like a hell of a trip.

Was the bike insured on the shipment? If so, fedex / insurance should pay and they can go after the bike shop if they want.

First of all your pictures are great. And definitely bring back memories, I did that hut trip a bunch of years ago.

So isn't fedex shipping insurance done through an outside group? I know UPS's was, only had to deal with them once.

Was there any damage to box at all? There is really something fishy going on because:

A. The damage is on your left seatstay and you said the der hanger was broken off?? Seems strange that two different sides got damaged unless the box was run over or something (this happened to me once) And if that had happened there would be wheel damage.
B. If the shop said they took off the der hanger how was it broken?

Sounds like the shop did something....

Thanks for the replies and the concern. He did fully insure it and took photos of everything after he saw the damage. Our initial reaction was shipping damage, but it just doesn't add up: wheels are fine, big ring damage, left seat stay bent, broken hanger, messed up front shock, minimal damage to the box. The real fishy part is that the shop has stated that they removed the hanger and the derailleur off the hanger before shipping. I don't see the need to remove both, and it seems awfully difficult to break a hanger with it off the bike and the derailleur removed.

I guess the advice we're seeking is more legal at this point. We're thinking the shop is at fault. Is this something BikeFlights is supposed to handle or should he hire a lawyer? The person at BikeFlights is being a bit of an ass. He told my friend that he thinks he took the bike out for a ride after unpacking it, damaged it, and is now trying to claim it.

Sorry to hear about the bike. That sucks. I second the idea of getting something in writing from the shop. I pulled a short stint at UPS loading trucks. No one cares what's in the box unless it's stamped with a skull and cross bones. The bigger and heavier a box is, the more it's going to get kicked, tossed and dropped. The conveyors in the distro centers won't stop for anything unless stuff gets jammed. Best of luck getting that taken care of.

Originally Posted by wanker

an incredible trip.

Btw, an incredible trip does *not* include PBR. Ever.

Since it was insured, go after the insurance company. They (legally) have an obligation to you. Unless they can prove that you damaged the bike after you received it and are now trying to make a claim (which would be insurance fraud), they're on the hook for it. It doesn't sounds like they have any actual proof of insurance fraud aside from their speculation. Keep pressing them until they pay. If they want to go after the shop, that's their problem.

Agreed though - ultimately it sure sounds like the shop did something shady.

Is it your friends bike? Did they somehow mix his up with another bike that was Effed up?

Seems like a dumb question, but maybe they mixed them up?

Truly Weird...

FedEx explanation (bike was ridden off a cliff then shipped) makes no sense - the wheels are gonna collapse before the stay.

Based on the info provided, I only see three possible explanations here:
(1) Somebody along the shipping route experienced a major catastrophe and repacked the bike,
(2) The bike isn't really his, i.e. someone with a totaled-but-otherwise-identical bike was shipped at the same time and the packing slips got mixed up, or
(3) The bike shop dropped something huge on it then packed it up and shipped.

Were all the scratches and missing paint there when he left the bike at the shop? It sorta looks like something slid down the creased stay, then stopped where it buckled.

Has your bud verified the SN on the bottom bracket to make sure it's really his bike?

If so, has he confirmed that the shipping number on his BikeFlights confirmation matches what's on the box that arrived?

Was there packing materials in the box that arrived? Did it look like the materials were in the right places?

Did your bud insure the contents? If so, and the amount is high enough, just use the proceeds to buy a new frame/fork.

Btw, an incredible trip does *not* include PBR. Ever.

It was what the huts were stocked with, we had no say in provisions. We lugged along a few flasks of High West Rendezvous Rye to enjoy as well.

Did they somehow mix his up with another bike that was Effed up?

That's an optimistic thought, sure would be nice if that were the case. Unfortunately, that is not the situation we're dealing with.

Since it was insured, go after the insurance company. They (legally) have an obligation to you. Unless they can prove that you damaged the bike after you received it and are now trying to make a claim (which would be insurance fraud), they're on the hook for it. It doesn't sounds like they have any actual proof of insurance fraud aside from their speculation. Keep pressing them until they pay. If they want to go after the shop, that's their problem.

^^^^ This is the kind of wisdom I was looking for. Thanks toast.

Why is this really an issue? If the bike was insured...file a claim. Document damage...simple as that.

Will the rear wheel even fit in the dropouts with that kink? If not, that's an easy way to rule out damage from riding and focus on something happening after it was torn down. The hanger part is really odd, I wouldn't think they would bother removing it, the shop is putting themselves in a really bad spot even trying to claim that. All that said, I work for a company that ships a lot of bikes and one arriving to a shop in a decent looking box but with a damaged chain or seat stay does happen from time to time. Sounds like it took a big fall from a height and landed right side up. FedEx is full of shit saying this couldn't happen because it was shipped ground. What, did they think you were insinuating that it fell out of a plane or something? A box could easily fall 8-10 feet while unloading a truck and some sorting facilities do have elevated conveyor systems that are substantially higher.

I had a FedEx employee drop a chair from the top 'shelf' of a shipping truck to the deck, then to the driveway in one basic motion.... then leave before we could open the box and inspect it. The next day when we called and told them the story, and that the chair was broken, they fought us... If you have insurance on it, like others have said, just file the claim, let them hatch out who will pay between the shop and FedEx..... If they give you the run around send them a formal letter... they still work. Put them on notice that you (or your friend in this case) will file in small claims court otherwise.

Ditto the insurance. I bought my bike from Achtung and while he packaged it well, the box for the wheels was worn through on the cassette, but there was no damage. Somebody trashed the shit out of that bike.

Good thing he has the insurance, because in a "he said/she said" situation such as this, he's kind of screwed. Bringing in legal muscles won't accomplish much. After the insurance pays off, what are the damages (assuming you could assign liability, which seems unlikely)?

Time to shop for a new bike!

Youbuy insurance precisely so that you can make things like this somebody else's problem. Make the insurance claim, don't worry about who is responsible.

Originally Posted by smslavin

Btw, an incredible trip does *not* include PBR. Ever.

It's rehydrating!


Man, biking here sucks.

The plot thickens . . .

Originally Posted by Jamespio

Youbuy insurance precisely so that you can make things like this somebody else's problem. Make the insurance claim, don't worry about who is responsible.

Precisely. Unless, of course, BikeFlights charged for insurance, but didn't actually insure it. . . The BikeFlights guy is acting very erratic.

My friend has been lurking the thread and really appreciates the opinions and input that are coming out here. He called BikeFlights this morning and pressed him on pushing the claim again on FedEx (thanks Toast!) who became very defensive and advising that my friend was putting in a 'fraudulent claim' and went on about how FedEx 'will send police to his house if this is fraudulent'.

The guy sent him an email later in the day saying 'good news', he 'worked hard all day' and 'has a new rear triangle coming for him soon'. Seems a bit fast to get a claim out of FedEx, no?? Plus he's missed the crank, hanger, and fork.

Anyone dealt with these guys before?

On the other hand, the owner of the shop in Moab told my friend that BikeFlights never spoke with him or anyone in the shop. He was concerned about the damage, but insisted the bike was not in that condition when they boxed it. He's offered to be as helpful to the insurance company as possible.

looks like this is one service I won't be using to ship a bike anywhere.

Were you guys with Sacred Rides for your tour? Looks like Mike put up a note on BikeFlights FB page. Pretty bad PR there BikeFlights if you gotta have a pretty reputable bike tour company get after you about a claim.

Originally Posted by mtnjam

looks like this is one service I won't be using to ship a bike anywhere.

Were you guys with Sacred Rides for your tour? Looks like Mike put up a note on BikeFlights FB page. Pretty bad PR there BikeFlights if you gotta have a pretty reputable bike tour company get after you about a claim.

That wasn't us. We coordinated the trip directly with San Juan Hut Systems, the company that owns the huts. My buddy has experienced the same problems though. They're not easy to get ahold of.

Originally Posted by wanker

My friend has been lurking the thread and really appreciates the opinions and input that are coming out here. He called BikeFlights this morning and pressed him on pushing the claim again on FedEx (thanks Toast!) who became very defensive and advising that my friend was putting in a 'fraudulent claim' and went on about how FedEx 'will send police to his house if this is fraudulent'.

Keep pressing them. Like I said before, it's their burden to prove fraud, and that's going to be really hard for them to do. You should invite them to "send police to the house," since all the police are going to see is a messed up bike. Obviously the police aren't actually going to go to your house, but whoever was insuring it could theoretically send an adjuster who would look over the bike and price out a replacement. There's enough wrong with the bike that I'd be pretty surprised if they didn't just "total" it.

Really though, it sounds like BikeFlights tried to save some coin and didn't insure it. Now they're trying to cover their ass, so they're calling around and trying to find replacement bits and pieces. It wouldn't surprise me if the guy just bought the rear triangle off of ebay or something. If you're ok with him cobbling together some replacement parts, you could just keep the pressure on him and see what he comes up with. If it were me though, I'd just ask for a check. Figure out what the reasonable replacement cost of the bike is, and ask for that amount. That's what the insurance company would most likely give you, and they'd take the damaged bike and sell it for whatever they could get for it. Pretty much the same as if your car gets totaled.

Originally Posted by wanker

That wasn't us. We coordinated the trip directly with San Juan Hut Systems, the company that owns the huts. My buddy has experienced the same problems though. They're not easy to get ahold of.

Damn, that's two strikes against them now. Your friends and then this other one....wonder what happened to the Sacred Ride client who also filed a claim?

Are you telling me that you can't just go to most bike shops and have them pack and ship a bike for you? I mean, maybe that seems ridiculous, but it would be a service that might be worth offering (and charging for). It seems like every retail store has a UPS account.

Probably Fed-ex's fault. I've had this happen before in a way more obvious manner, and they still fought me on it. Keep pushing them until they pay you. This is why there is insurance. It's in their interest to fight it even if they know they're wrong so they don't lose money as a business (even thought they probably end up losing a customer). I had to keep calling on my claim for 3 weeks before they finally sent me a check

Originally Posted by Skipig25

Probably Fed-ex's fault. I've had this happen before in a way more obvious manner, and they still fought me on it. Keep pushing them until they pay you. This is why there is insurance. It's in their interest to fight it even if they know they're wrong so they don't lose money as a business (even thought they probably end up losing a customer). I had to keep calling on my claim for 3 weeks before they finally sent me a check

Look at the bikeflights.com website. This is their responsibility. The only reason they exist is to skim off some cash to take care of the details of shipping a bike. They need to make this right. FedEx is just a sub-contractor to them. Maybe bikeflights can make some kind of claim against FedEx, but that's irrelevant to the guy whose bike if F'd up. If insurance was paid for, but bikefilghts didn't buy insurance from FedEx, they need to eat whatever the expense is to get that bike back into the shape it was in when it was dropped off in Moab.