Thread: 4FRNT Hoji vs Atomic Automatic......

.....for daily driver in Jackson & Snowbird. From powder to chopped up to crud to hardpack--what would be your choice for those that have been able to ski them.

Praxis MVP

Originally Posted by glademaster

Praxis MVP

Can't get a proform on them unless you have a hook-up

Well, they are pretty different stylistically, so it would really come down to whether you want to do jibby stuff, or just want to charge.

The Automatics are closer to the YLEs IMO.

Between the two, Automatic. But I would favor the squad 7 over the both.

Originally Posted by Phildo_Baggins

Well, they are pretty different stylistically, so it would really come down to whether you want to do jibby stuff, or just want to charge.

The Automatics are closer to the YLEs IMO.

To be clear you are saying the Hoji is the more hard charging of the two as I thought the YLE was more jibby. Have a three year old EHP and its true only weakness was in harder conditions. Thxs

Originally Posted by Unbroken Chain

To be clear you are saying the Hoji is the more hard charging of the two as I thought the YLE was more jibby. Have a three year old EHP and its true only weakness was in harder conditions. Thxs

Yeah. That's my take on them. They ski a lot like the Renegade. Just a little more narrow and slightly more rocker.

Have not skied the automatic, but the hoji skied like a prfect daily driver when I tried em

This is relevant to my interests, not meaning to threadjack but anyone know how the Hojis perform in harder snow?

I skied both on different days last season and thought they were remarkably similar. The Hoji had a slight edge in quickness, the Automatic a slight edge in stability and both were great in late season heavy fresh snow. The Hoji is more particular about the rider staying centered on the ski. Both skis were extremely responsive to turn input and would turn very quickly if you wanted; I think I'd be happy with either as a daily driver.

The Blister guys will probably be posting a review of the Automatic pretty soon, they have it down in SA. They also reviewed the Hoji. Not saying their the end all and be all, but they post well written quality reviews. Might be worth checking out. FWIW they also mentioned that the Hoji needs to be ridden with a really balanced centered stance on hard pack for it to work.

Originally Posted by Shu Shu

FWIW they also mentioned that the Hoji needs to be ridden with a really balanced centered stance on hard pack for it to work.

I found that to be the case with the Renegades, so I don't expect the Hoji to be different in that regard. Due to the full reverse camber and short sidecut length, they don't turn so well if you're not skiing on the contact area (aside from in deep snow, where most skis will forgive more errors). But when you initiate a turn in that sweet spot, prepare to be thrilled.

Inbounds I'd go automatic. BC Hoji. Based on what I've read/heard.

Hoji -140 -117-129 mm / 30 m turning radius
Auto -130 -112-121 mm / 19 m turning radius

Keep in mind that the Hoji is full rocker. Some people DO NOT like a full rocker ski.
Remember when the goat went to a full rocker and their sales dropped through the floor?
But the Hoji has a different where the radius and the rocker are both 30 m.
They match and will ski better than than the goat but if you flat base it on hard pack it will be squirrely as hell (like the rocker'd goats).

^^^radius is backwards. Hoji is 30 and auto is sub 20.

I disagree with really centered. Focus yes, but very intuitive and even run flat out if you want. Just a little style adjust and then after a few days no issue
I think they rail groomers, 196 RENs

Originally Posted by whyturn

I disagree with really centered. Focus yes, but very intuitive and even run flat out if you want. Just a little style adjust and then after a few days no issue
I think they rail groomers, 196 RENs

I found the 186s railed on smooth groomers. Once the groomers got rough (and this applies to rougher off-groomer conditions as well), there wasn't enough contact/sidecut length to keep the ski tracking. They took a lot of focus to ski in those conditions.

In contrast, I have found that skis with a longer flat spot and sidecut hold their line better when things get rough.

Originally Posted by whyturn

^^^radius is backwards. Hoji is 30 and auto is sub 20.

Good call... fixed it.

I had two days on Hojis and absolutely hated them on hardpack. Once things softened they were pretty good. Probably a technique adaptation thing, as has been mentioned, but I didn't get on with them.

I have Automatics on order.

Originally Posted by TheDon

Good call... fixed it.

Could you fix the measurements while you're at it as well? You got them backwards too...

Hey D(C), I remember you've been on RC112 a while back. The RC112 198 was my all time favorite last season and I'm looking for something a litte more playful but just as stable in chopped up Euro snow. Do you think the Hoji would make me happy?

Originally Posted by rasi

Hey D(C), I remember you've been on RC112 a while back. The RC112 198 was my all time favorite last season and I'm looking for something a litte more playful but just as stable in chopped up Euro snow. Do you think the Hoji would make me happy?

The Hoji is a pretty different ski than the RC 112 and I think you'll need to try it if you can before you decide. I haven't skied the Hoji myself, only the Renegade. But my understanding is that the Hoji likes a softer touch than the Rens. If you're used to a big, still ski like the RC 112, I'd say the Renegade is the ski you want to consider.

Rens vs RC 112 in chop - this reflects the comment I made above. I had trouble keeping the Rens tracking in bumpy snow unless my balance was right where it should be. The RC 112s on the other hand (and other more conventional skis I've used) have a longer sidecut to help the ski hold an arc in chop.

Maybe consider the 190 Bibby Pro if you're looking for something playful that can still do an excellent job in chop. They're what I've been skiing post-Renegade and I've been thrilled.

Originally Posted by TheDon

Hoji -140 -117-129 mm / 30 m turning radius
Auto -130 -112-121 mm / 19 m turning radius

Keep in mind that the Hoji is full rocker. Some people DO NOT like a full rocker ski.
Remember when the goat went to a full rocker and their sales dropped through the floor?
But the Hoji has a different where the radius and the rocker are both 30 m.
They match and will ski better than than the goat but if you flat base it on hard pack it will be squirrely as hell (like the rocker'd goats).

The Automatic doesn't ski like a ski with a 19m radius, though. It is not "hooky" at all. I loved the way it skied.

Originally Posted by glademaster

Praxis MVP

So curious after looking at Praxis website, why the MVP over the RX?

Originally Posted by Unbroken Chain

So curious after looking at Praxis website, why the MVP over the RX?

Well, it has both tip and tail rocker and some taper, the MVP is a pretty "progressive" every day ski, which is how I would classify the Hoji and the Auto. The RX a more traditional design, although it's nice that this season it's available with just tip rocker or tip and tail. The RX has the advantage of being a proven design. Either would work fine depending on flex. For Jackson and the Bird the RX may actually be a better choice, although a tapered 133 mm tip is going to be a lot easier to wiggle through bumps than a 141 mm tip like on the RX, if this is truly going to be an every day ski. That was my logic behind ordering the MVP instead of the RX, as I was torn between these two skis.

There is proform out there for Praxis if you're in the industry. I had access to it last season but didn't take advantage of it.