Thread: Home Improvement Mags: I need to reseal my kitchen sink, it leaks!

JONG looking for a little advice ..

We have a basic stainless steel kitchen sink and cheap laminate counter tops. We found a bunch of water under the sink and determined that it is leaking between the sink itself and the countertop. Our dishwasher drains into the sink and sometimes water runs over the lip on the back of the sink, and is now leaking between the sink itself and the counter top, where it is only 1/2" from the backsplash. From what I found on various do it yourself websites, I need to remove the sink, clean the old adhesive off of the bottom, then reinstall the sink with new adhesive. My question is, should I do this myself? I am pretty handy, but far from a plumber. As far as disconnecting the fittings, etc. I am pretty comfortable, it's the part about putting the sink back in straight, and having it not leak is what I am worried about. Also, do I need to do anything to the wood that has been wet to prevent mold or just let it dry? Also, any rec's on what to use for an adhesive would be appreciated. Thanks for any replies..


Burns

Something about that doesn't sound quite right. If you have water overflowing the sink then you have a bigger problem, right? I don't believe that the seal from the sink to the countertop is supposed to be completely water tight because water really shouldn't be pooling there in the first place. I'd be more inclined to start by making sure that your drain is flowing freely.

Originally Posted by Cruiser

Something about that doesn't sound quite right. If you have water overflowing the sink then you have a bigger problem, right? I don't believe that the seal from the sink to the countertop is supposed to be completely water tight because water really shouldn't be pooling there in the first place. I'd be more inclined to start by making sure that your drain is flowing freely.

Cruiser, thanks for the reply..I should have been more clear, the sink is draining fine.

I have spent the last ten minutes trying to link a picture of what is apparently called an Air gap Device which is draining quite a bit of water out of it. I can't get it to link but it is the first picture here..

http://activerain.com/blogsview/683023/-does-air-gap-refer-to-the-space-under-a-bungee-jumper-

In my search for a picture I found this, which maybe is my problem..

This "thingy" is called an Air Gap Device and assists in proper drainage of the dishwasher. Most jurisdictions require them nowadays. Water coming out of the cap during operation of the washer is signaling a plugged drain----and cleaning is necessary.

The water is running out of the Air gap Device and pooling behind the sink and ends up leaking under the sink. Maybe I just need to clean the drain, and then I won't have to worry about the seal between the sink and the countertop? We haven't lived in this place for that long and I guess I just assumed it was supposed to drain that way, I guess not..

Gotcha. I'd start by disassembling the air gap (assuming it's serviceable) and checking to make sure there aren't any obstructions in it or the line that feeds it from the dw. Then I'd check the connection from the air gap device to the main drain under the sink to be sure there's nothing in the way there either. I bet there's something hung up in one of the hoses at, or very close to, one of the connections.

One of my most finest moments was when my garbage disposal backed up a couple of months ago as a result of adding too many sweet potato and onion peels to it too quickly and with too little water. I decided to add some very caustic drain cleaner to it to try the quick fix approach. That didn't work. And why would it really? So I had to disassemble the plumbing below the sink to manually clear the clog. I got the most nasty caustic soup of bits of half disposed food and drain cleaner all over my arms and torso. Home ownership is bliss.

Originally Posted by Cruiser

Gotcha. I'd start by disassembling the air gap (assuming it's serviceable) and checking to make sure there aren't any obstructions in it or the line that feeds it from the dw. Then I'd check the connection from the air gap device to the main drain under the sink to be sure there's nothing in the way there either. I bet there's something hung up in one of the hoses at, or very close to, one of the connections.

One of my most finest moments was when my garbage disposal backed up a couple of months ago as a result of adding too many sweet potato and onion peels to it too quickly and with too little water. I decided to add some very caustic drain cleaner to it to try the quick fix approach. That didn't work. And why would it really? So I had to disassemble the plumbing below the sink to manually clear the clog. I got the most nasty caustic soup of bits of half disposed food and drain cleaner all over my arms and torso. Home ownership is bliss.

While I kind of feel like a dumbass for not knowing what an air gap was, and thinking it was a drain, it still seems like an easier project than the sink removal I had planned. I am going to check the hoses and connections tonight, hopefully it will end up not being that big of a deal. I will also make sure not to dump a bunch of chemical in before I start!

Originally Posted by mrburns

JONG looking for a little advice ..

We have a basic stainless steel kitchen sink and cheap laminate counter tops. We found a bunch of water under the sink and determined that it is leaking between the sink itself and the countertop. Our dishwasher drains into the sink and sometimes water runs over the lip on the back of the sink, and is now leaking between the sink itself and the counter top, where it is only 1/2" from the backsplash. From what I found on various do it yourself websites, I need to remove the sink, clean the old adhesive off of the bottom, then reinstall the sink with new adhesive. My question is, should I do this myself? I am pretty handy, but far from a plumber. As far as disconnecting the fittings, etc. I am pretty comfortable, it's the part about putting the sink back in straight, and having it not leak is what I am worried about. Also, do I need to do anything to the wood that has been wet to prevent mold or just let it dry? Also, any rec's on what to use for an adhesive would be appreciated. Thanks for any replies..


Burns

pulling a kitchnen sink is not hard but I would hope whomever did the instal used plumber's putty and that is what I would use to reseal an SS sink on laminate, its cheap, comes in a tub using it is alot like playdough and it doesnt harden

I had a kitchen sink in my old house that was glued to the laminate with clear silicone sealer which cracked all the laminate when I tried to remove the sink with pry bars and big screwdrivers ... wrong sealer for the job

I have never seen or heard of an air gap device up here in syrup sucking land, the last palce I lived the DW drained into the garbage disposal which was ok as long as you cleared the garbage disposal unit before you ran the DW OR it could back up

I just looked under the sink in this house, there is no air gap device and I can't see anywhere the DW is draining but it all seems to work fine

There shouldn't be water coming out of the air gap. The drain line from your dishwasher is probably plugged. As xxx-er says removing the sink and replacing the seal with plumbers putty isn't that hard--if the sink isn't straight you just straighten it. Plumbers putty is neat stuff and actually kind of fun to play with. probably the hardest part is reconnecting the drain pipe without leaks and without cracking it. I'd try to clear the drain lines first--the leak may be coming from one of them rather than around your sink. Reseat the sink if fixing the drains doesn't fix the problem. There should be a water tight seal around the sink--water gets on countertops next to sinks all the time washing dishes and the like. Basic plumbing --clearing drains, fixing leaks, etc--is one of those things most homeowners should be able to do. Plumbers are expensive and you have to wait. You might want to get a good book on home repairs--I wish I could find the one I have to recommend it.

My dishwasher has no air gap and works fine. I think I'm supposed to have one but the Town of Truckee has more important things to worry about (although I can't figure out what.)

No air gaps around here. Most garburators have a fitting for a dishwasher or there's a Y above the trap for the dishwasher. If the sink is properly vented then there's no need for an air gap.

In any case it sounds like the drain is clogged and needs a good cleaning.

OK, so air gaps or air admittance devices or studer vents are all just replacements for a standard plumbing vent. Pretty standard on kitchen sink plumbing as those are usually or an exterior wall and can't really be tied into the main stack.

Firstly, where does your DW drain to. It should either to into the garbage disposal (google "high loop method" or into it's own trap. The main trap should be vented by the air gap. Most modern installations are PVC/ ABS and under the sink. Sounds like you've got the old school one on top of the sink.

You have a blocked drain. The path of least resistance is up through the air gap. If you have slip joints on the trap, take that apart. If not, take the top of the air gap off and snake it from there. You should be able to pour water straight down the air gap and have it go away.

The fact that you thought water should come out the air gap and back into the sink is why plumbers can charge $100/min for the service call.

Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles

O
The fact that you thought water should come out the air gap and back into the sink is why plumbers can charge $100/min for the service call.

^^^^^^^^^

[QUOTE=Foggy_Goggles;3716951
The fact that you thought water should come out the air gap and back into the sink is why plumbers can charge $100/min for the service call.[/QUOTE]

Very true, I have only been a homeowner for a short time, I am sure there was an air gap in one of the many rentals that I have lived in, but I never paid any attention to them. Now that I am paying for repairs, I am doing my best to learn as much as possible. Thanks for all the advice, looks like some drain cleaning is in my future.

One more JONG question, assuming that cleaning the drain eliminates the water draining out of the air gap, does the sink need to be removed and resealed? I assuming yes, but since I'm learning...

I say no. As long as it is not loose, I would just clean silicone around the outside and call it good. X-er, silicone ain't glue. I doubt that is what you are messing with. Putty is OK for setting sinks but it will be hard to get a 100% waterproof seal unless you have a shit ton of sink clips.

Originally Posted by mrburns

One more JONG question, assuming that cleaning the drain eliminates the water draining out of the air gap, does the sink need to be removed and resealed? I assuming yes, but since I'm learning...

First, if you take out the sink then Mrs mrburns will say "since you're taking it out why not put in a new one?". Second, if it was sealed with plumber's putty that's hardened then you'll try scaping it off and then buy a new sink. Third, every sink is a little different and you'll end up redoing the drain pipes.

correction: my wife says that when when set the kitchen sink on top of the granite tile she set she used silicone, not plumber's putty. She's the plumber and tile setter in the family (electric too). I just do the carpentry.

Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles

I say no. As long as it is not loose, I would just clean silicone around the outside and call it good. X-er, silicone ain't glue. I doubt that is what you are messing with. Putty is OK for setting sinks but it will be hard to get a 100% waterproof seal unless you have a shit ton of sink clips.

I HAD to replace a tap on a sink somebody else instaled, I have used lots of silicone so I know what it was and this was clear silicone, buddy didn't just run a bead around the outside of the sink/laminate joint and tool off the excess with spit on a finger he used 1/2 the tube on the underside of the sink before he did up the sink fasteners which " GLUED " it to the laminate enough to crack the laminate off the wood it was glued to, anything that requires that much prying with levers & screwdrivers is glue ... don't use silicone to set a SS sink on laminate IME

I have used plumbers putty for setting the drain in a sink so its water proof, cheap, easy to work, and it doesnt harden ...pretty good stuff

fortunatley I flubbed the damaged laminate together enough to sell that house in a very HOT market just before the sky fell in

The Air-Gap thing sounds like an air-breather....the same sort of thing the head of a sailboat has. But like others have said, there shouldn't be water coming from the breather...if there is, someting is plugged. But I thought youn said the DW drains directly into the sink ..like via an oulet hose, right?

Well...the original question is re-sealing under the sink. That's a super easy job! Look under the sink in the cabinet...you'll see some clamp-looking devices probably...this clamps the sink down to a secondary bulkhead in your cabinet (I can't get at my sink right now to look). Undo those clamps, and undo the drain pipe. You may or may not need to undo the water inlets. Most likely, they'll be hoses and you can leave them. Just look around under neath and remove anything that will stop you from lifting the sink 4 inches or so. Lift the sink...jam a log or whatever under it to keep it up....scrape any putty or sealer off (including on the sink as well, not just the counter)...put the enough of the sealer of your choice around it to seal (I use 3M 4200 for that kind of work, as it IS removable and makes a much better seal than frickin putty)....remove the log or dead hooker or whatever you've jammed underneath the sink to hold it up...recoonect all the shit you disconnected...and bingo...job done...margarita time!!

To the guy who said to never use silicone-based sealer: silicone is a fine sealer and it DOES come off!! Before you start jamming srewdrivers and whatnot in there, look underneath or ontop and try to find what sealed it. If it IS a silicone product, no biggie....just take a sharp thin knife (like a bread knife or even better a victorinox deck knife !!) and go around between sink and countertop with it cutting the seal. I don't really like plumber's putty, and have had to take out plenty of sink drains that have been sealed badly with putty. I've always resealed them with 3M 4200. 3M 5200 is a litlle more...ahem...permanent...TOO permanent.

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It looked like silicone and stuck like shit in a bears fur, I can find internet tips that say use silcone and tips that say use plumbers putty

http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-plumbers-putty.htm

I will use silicone for other apps but stay with plumbers putty for a sink

Well it looks like I don't need to tell you you're doing it wrong, AK already did it...but since your're coming at me the way you are...you're doing it wrong. You have to shear silicone, if you use screw drivers and pry bars you risk damaging the laminate. I suggest taping around the sink with No Residue Duct tape. Gently tap in a couple of shim to get a little working room. Then run the scraper blade of your Fein Mulitmaster or ocilating tool of your choice between the counter and the sink. My point with the plumbers putty is that it requires compressive force to create a waterproof seal. Something like say..oh..setting a sink drain. In case you care, my personal go to move is a couple quarter sized dabs of adhesive caulk under the sink and then a small bead of silicone to seal the sink to the counter. Of course really you should tear out the whole thing and go granite and undermount.

Originally Posted by XXX-er

It looked like silicone and stuck like shit in a bears fur, I can find internet tips that say use silcone and tips that say use plumbers putty

Hmmmm......what you're describing there sounds more like a clear polyurethane. That stuff looks and feels just like clear silicone when it's in a bead...but it adheres to things like you wouldn't believe!

Silicone itself is a great sealer, but not really a great adhesive. Normally you should be able to peel it off things fairly easily. Because it is a silicone, after all. Polyurethane, on the other hand is both an excellent sealer AND an excellent adhesive...and in the case of your sink, perhaps TOO strong of an adhesive. But unlike silicone, polyurethane does react to certain types of plastic...so must be used with forethought.

Thanks for the link on plumber's putty. It certainly has it's uses as well. I tend to use a lot of 3M 4200 for repairs because owning a sailboat, I tend to always have already opened tubes on hand. At $18 a tube, I would never use it for simple household plumbing if I didn't have one already opened and.


A hint for keeping tubes of sealer or adhesives from drying out:

Before putting the cap back on, I save a glob of it...then put the cap on, and smear some around the bottom of the cap. Works every time, and used tubes last for many monthes. I always clear out the noozle tube thing and tape it to the cartridge. If the tube didn't come with a cap or it's lost...a toothpaste cap usually works.

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I have removed /instaled at least 1/2 doz sinks over the years but I couldn't even get that sink edge up to run an olfa cutter thru the adhesive, I have no experiance with clear PU and since it looks like silicone I never thot it could be anything else, this was a low end ex-rental with numerous owners & tenannts ... who knows

I usually put a 4" nail down the nozzle right into the tube and let a big glop of sealer dry on the end ... pull the nail out and caulk

Please accept my apologies if you feel harassed FG not my intention, but this is after all TGR where harassment is not only encouraged but rated for quality!