Thread: Going back from AT boots to alpine?

I've been on Garmont Endorphins for all my skiing since 2008 (was on Lange 100's before that). Last couple of years, though, I'm not doing that much backcountry - maybe 20% BC (mostly multi-day hut trips) and the rest at resorts. I'm starting to wonder if my Garmonts aren't really what I should be on, at least at the resort. I feel like I was a better skier back before I got them, quicker in the trees and much better at bumps - at least partially because I was in better shape then, but I wonder if my switch to a softer boot has also caused me to be sloppier and slower generally.

Any thoughts on whether it would be worth it to try going back to a true alpine boot? I don't have $500 for new boots just laying around, so I'd be crossing my fingers that the investment made a big enough difference to justify the cost.

If you have any thoughts about where I should start with alpine boot brands/models, happy to hear that as well - I haven't paid attention to them at all for five years. I'm a big guy (6', 210 lbs) so I need something relatively stiff, but I also prefer a lighter boot if possible. Relatively narrow foot, I'm told. (I know it all comes down to fit and I'll try a bunch on - just curious if there are any models out that are getting uniformly excellent feedback, or any to avoid at all costs.)

Whatever fits. If you have a low volume foot, try Full-Tilts or dig up some used Raichle flexons.

Yes, you'll be much happier with real alpine boots.
No, you don't need to spend $500. Go to a ski swap, or troll the clearance shelf at your local ski store.

The best way to shop for boots is to try on LOTS of boots.

just a quick note, the adrenaline boot you were in was rather soft and rather wide, so getting a narrow stiff alpine boot may or may not be the call, but it will be pretty different that what you are used to.

also, when trying on boots, obviously try it on with its new liner, but bring your old liners and try it on with them too, as that will usually give you a decent ball-park of how the boot might fit after a bunch of days.

Thanks. Just to be clear - I am aware that fit is the most important thing and that I'll be trying on lots of boots (this ain't my first rodeo). I'm just looking for thoughts on (a) whether new alpine boots are likely to make a big difference over my AT boots, and (b) any broad thoughts on alpine boots worth checking out.

Originally Posted by marshalolson

just a quick note, the adrenaline boot you were in was rather soft and rather wide, so getting a narrow stiff alpine boot may or may not be the call, but it will be pretty different that what you are used to.

They're actually Endorphins, not Adrenalines. Same advice, or does that change things? I was told that they were good for a narrow foot when I bought them.

same boots, plus plastic "carbon" graphics, slightly stiffer tongue.

alpine boots (and modern AT boots) are a million times more precise and responsive and anatomically shaped than those garmonts, FWIW.

^^^have at boots evolved that much over the past 5 years?

I have 2008 garmont endorphins that I have only skied at the resort so far and i'm very happy with them. I personally have no plans to get alpine boots.

Originally Posted by wolfelot

^^^have at boots evolved that much over the past 5 years?

Yes. The current trend in lightweight AT boots is away from boxy lasts to "performance fit," e.g., TLT5, Maestrale, almost like lacing up a light mountaineering boot. The game has changed.

Originally Posted by wolfelot

^^^have at boots evolved that much over the past 5 years?

are you making fun of me?

Originally Posted by Big Steve

Yes. The current trend in lightweight AT boots is away from boxy lasts to "performance fit," e.g., TLT5, Maestrale, almost like lacing up a light mountaineering boot. The game has changed.

^^^ this.

I had adrenalines a few years ago, and apine boots were an order of magnitude better, in lateral stiffness and fit. I ski in the bc on black diamond factors and the resort on lange. The factors are almost as good as the langes, but not quite. I definitely feel the difference in moguls, where the langes enable me to turn a lot more quickly.
Get alpine.

Originally Posted by rod9301

I had adrenalines a few years ago, and apine boots were an order of magnitude better, in lateral stiffness and fit. I ski in the bc on black diamond factors and the resort on lange. The factors are almost as good as the langes, but not quite. I definitely feel the difference in moguls, where the langes enable me to turn a lot more quickly.
Get alpine.

Nice, that's exactly what I'm suspecting. I have memories of just effortlessly bouncing through tight trees at Mary Jane at pretty high speed a few years ago, and I just don't seem to have the control to pull that off with any confidence now. Part of it is that I'm on fatter skis, but not THAT much fatter (Mantras are my resort skis these days), so I think the boots made a big difference.

I did all my lift skiing on Endorphins for a few years, and last season got some Lange RS 130's to have an alpine boot in the quiver. The increase in power and response is pretty amazing (so was the decrease in comfort, still working on that). The Langes make it easy to overpower a burly ski like the LPR 115, turn input is translated much more quickly, you can use much more subtle movements to achieve the same results. They are also much more sensitive to forward lean angle (still working on that too).

Agree with the other comments about the Adrenaline/Endorphin not being a narrow boot, too.

Interesting, of the boots I tried yesterday the Lange RX 120 seemed like the best fit (with the Nordica Firearrow R1 close behind). Seemed like a very different feel than my old Endorphins, though of course those are pretty packed out and broken in now. Gonna do some more shopping but I'm leaning towards the RX 120 at the moment.

If you are indeed narrow try to checkout the RS 120 or RS 130 - the RX is still a 100mm (average) last - there is an RX 100 low volume that is the same 98mm last with replaceable toes and heels - not sure if they are making a 120 flex with replaceable toes and heels yet. Any of the Lange boots mentioned will destroy your endorphins on the hill, so much so that you would rather tour/hike in them too.

I stuck intuition powerwraps in my Endorphins, turned them into a much better resort boot.

Originally Posted by millfiger

If you are indeed narrow try to checkout the RS 120 or RS 130 - the RX is still a 100mm (average) last - there is an RX 100 low volume that is the same 98mm last with replaceable toes and heels - not sure if they are making a 120 flex with replaceable toes and heels yet. Any of the Lange boots mentioned will destroy your endorphins on the hill, so much so that you would rather tour/hike in them too.

According to the guy who measured my feet yesterday, I have a narrow heel/ankle but my forefoot is pretty average. He thought the 100mm last was probably a better fit, and it did seem to hug my foot pretty nicely.

Originally Posted by roadgap

I stuck intuition powerwraps in my Endorphins, turned them into a much better resort boot.

This^^ I swapped them out for conformables... Much more comfort

I tried the one boot endorphin for AT & alpine , while it does work a 4 buckle alpine boot is more comfortable/faster/ more control

If you're a tongue hugger then a Lange alpine boot.

If you're not, then the Dynafit TLT 5 Performance.

Best boot I've skied in. On and off groomed.

I'm 6' 2" and 210 lbs.

I made the same call to run two pairs of boots, jamming the curled toes in a raised solly driver is not cool, just stupid and I really fucked up my leg last year when one ski didn't release. Switching to scarpa hurricanes for all lift-served and I'm swapping between look p15s and a g3 onyx on some praxis protests. Plus I think the touring boots will last much longer if you don't use them inbounds.

Another thing with the endorphin is to check ALL the screws and bolts because they will loosen off, the 4 Phillips screws in the walk mech constantly came loose and so I ended up epoxying the screw heads to the metal bar cuz they were coming loose in the boots plastic

Some of those boot blew up prematurely and I think it might be due to loose screws??

I also use an extra power strap with a higher liner and it gives a little more power

The cuff hinges are starting to wear after 6 yrs and I can feel excessive slop in one of them

Thanks for all the tips. I already have a Booster strap and Intuition liner in my Garmonts, they still feel soft/sloppy to me (at least, compared to a true alpine boot). Haven't tried tightening all the screws and bolts, though - good idea.

Prolly gonna pull the trigger on Lange RX 120 soon. Last year's are on pretty good sale and it doesn't sound like the slackcountry version is worth waiting for (because of cuff slop issues and the increased price).

Second the rx120. Great boot.

As said before, endorphins are slippers when compared to the current generation of at boots. Try maestrale rs, tlt5p, the new cochise or cosmos.... Let your foot decide.

lange rs 130 ftw. no need for AT boots if yer spending yer time on snow and not walking on rock n such. the performance difference is amazing.

rog