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  1. #51
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    Walk away.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tippster View Post
    Dude.

    Really? You keep the possible future equity, probably re-financed at a lower rate, and you expect her to pay you money simply for breaking up w/you?

    If you were partners in the property how were you able to refinance (read: change the legal status of one of the partners) without her consent?

    Don't be a dick. Walk away.
    I had her consesnt. The entire process was consensual. ???
    I'm not asking for money for her "breaking up with me"......this is simply a business transaction at this point. We are great friends. If the situation were the exact opposite financially (positive equity), i'd be writing her a check.....so i'm trying to see how this is any different.

    Edit: *consent. (It's still early, need more coffeeeeeeee).

  3. #53
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    .....and thanks again for all the replies and input either way, mags.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fat City View Post
    I had her consesnt. The entire process was consensual. ???
    I'm not asking for money for her "breaking up with me"......this is simply a business transaction at this point. We are great friends. If the situation were the exact opposite financially (positive equity), i'd be writing her a check.....so i'm trying to see how this is any different.
    Ok, then hit her up for 1/2. Good luck.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obstruction View Post

    As far as the future value of the asset argument is concerned ... pure bullshit. An asset is worth what it is worth on the day a deal is done unless there is some sort of agreement about what its future value will be and how that value will be allotted. If the property loses value you own the loss and if it appreciates you own that.


    Yeah, right, tell that to Bank of America.

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benny Profane View Post
    Yeah, right, tell that to Bank of America.
    Since when are ordinary folk playing by BofA rules.

    (unintentional delete of previous post but Benny preserved the gist of it)
    Damn, we're in a tight spot!

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by irul&ublo View Post
    As to the dumb ass who said you got an asset....no, you didn't. ...
    that was me you fuckstick.

    I should have said potential, as in you have the potential to be cool, but it has yet to materialize.
    ... jfost is really ignorant, he often just needs simple facts laid out for him...

  8. #58
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    You want to know what's fair? That depends on you. "Fairness" is an ethical and moral judgment.

    So my opinion of what's fair is simply what I would do, which may not be what you would do. You might be an asshole. You might care about money a lot more than I do, or a lot less. You might care more or less than I do about wanting to make sure that the other person thinks its fair. I feel pretty strongly that I want people to walk away from transactions with me feeling that they have not only been treated fairly, but have been treated more than fairly. $3k or even $6k is not a huge deal to me (as long as I can afford it at the time). I would want someone I liked enough to live and even buy a house with to walk away with enough cash in their pocket to make a decent life. All that said, if it were me, I would feel okay about asking the GF to share in the loss of actual market value (which may or may not have anything to do with appraised value), but would NOT feel okay asking the GF to cover a share of the closing costs. You incurred closing costs because you wanted to own the house, so that's your cost. The loss of market value represents an investment that didn't work out, and the two of you ought to share that loss. The only thing that MIGHT change my perspective is if in your market the seller routinely pays the closing costs, but that's pretty rare since closing costs usually includes a bunch of shit that is incurred solely for the benefit of the buyer (title insurance, credit report fees, etc.).

    In short, if she can afford one-half of the loss in market value, ask for that and nothing else. You're walking away with title to a piece of real estate. An encumbered piece of real estate, but still, you've got something, it's called your own home. She is walking away with nothing but a loss.

  9. #59
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    what's her phone number? she sounds cooler than the typical person in her situation. she's going to leave with nothing out of this. seems petty (to me) to take advantage of her coolness so that she leaves with less than nothing.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamespio View Post
    $3k or even $6k is not a huge deal to me (as long as I can afford it at the time).
    So... you base your fairness on what you can afford? If you could afford it you would be nicer and let them keep the money but if you could use it you would want it?
    Brought to you by Carl's Jr.

  11. #61
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    That's pretty clearly not what I said, but I've been here long enough to understand that you have some psychological need to find ways to generate conflict. I'll pass.

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamespio View Post
    You want to know what's fair? That depends on you. "Fairness" is an ethical and moral judgment.

    So my opinion of what's fair is simply what I would do, which may not be what you would do. You might be an asshole. You might care about money a lot more than I do, or a lot less. You might care more or less than I do about wanting to make sure that the other person thinks its fair. I feel pretty strongly that I want people to walk away from transactions with me feeling that they have not only been treated fairly, but have been treated more than fairly. $3k or even $6k is not a huge deal to me (as long as I can afford it at the time). I would want someone I liked enough to live and even buy a house with to walk away with enough cash in their pocket to make a decent life. All that said, if it were me, I would feel okay about asking the GF to share in the loss of actual market value (which may or may not have anything to do with appraised value), but would NOT feel okay asking the GF to cover a share of the closing costs. You incurred closing costs because you wanted to own the house, so that's your cost. The loss of market value represents an investment that didn't work out, and the two of you ought to share that loss. The only thing that MIGHT change my perspective is if in your market the seller routinely pays the closing costs, but that's pretty rare since closing costs usually includes a bunch of shit that is incurred solely for the benefit of the buyer (title insurance, credit report fees, etc.).

    In short, if she can afford one-half of the loss in market value, ask for that and nothing else. You're walking away with title to a piece of real estate. An encumbered piece of real estate, but still, you've got something, it's called your own home. She is walking away with nothing but a loss.
    Thanks for the input. The only thing I disagree with (above) is that even though I wanted to stay in the house, she and I both wanted her name off the mortgage and the only way to do this was to refinance. To get her name off the mortgage cost me (her?) $4k. In my mind, that should be split as it was necessary for both of us to terminate the "partnership" here.

  13. #63
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    Then you've answered your own question.

    It may not matter here or to the question you've posed, but as a general matter, a partnership including a joint tenancy, can be terminated by either party at any time by selling the partnership assets and splitting them. If she had insisted on simply selling the house, would the two of you as sellers have incurred any closing costs? If not, then closing costs were incurred solely to allow you to keep the house., which has also allowed you to avoid moving costs.

    Like I said, fairness is subjective, and I get the sense you came here to convince yourself that your demands were reasonable, rather than to get other opinions on what is the right thing to do. Sometimes figuring out what's right is genuinely hard and asking opinions of others is a good thing. But when asking opinions of others is really just an attempt to convince yourself that you are right, you probably are not. Ask yourself what you'd do if there was only $100 at stake, that's usually the right thing to do even when there are thousands at stake.

  14. #64
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    PICS!!! Then seriously walk away and bang hot chicks in your old bedroom.

  15. #65
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    Are you going to give her 1/2 the proceeds if you have a capital gain when you eventually sell it???

    Seriously, it is about a $600 a month payment. Get a roomie and have him pay most of it. You could ask her, and if she is dumb enough, maybe she will write the check, but I wouldn't push it. Just move on.
    Denver Dirt Pimp - Feel free to hit me up with any RE questions.

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fat City View Post
    Thanks for the input. The only thing I disagree with (above) is that even though I wanted to stay in the house, she and I both wanted her name off the mortgage and the only way to do this was to refinance. To get her name off the mortgage cost me (her?) $4k. In my mind, that should be split as it was necessary for both of us to terminate the "partnership" here.

    she lost money on the 1/2 of the house she owns because of the fucked RE market in the excited states and she should pay just like she should have got money if the house had appreciated, she could just walk away and say fuck you but then she doesn't get her name off the deed which she is smart to do cuz who knows where the market will go or what you will do...you are probably not sketchy but its just covering a what-if ??


    also consider because she is just gives you some money to cover her half of the loss instead of going thru the motions of selling the place she doesn't need to pay half of realestate fees for which she would be liable

    its only 3K but what would the collective say if the figures thrown around were way bigger ?

    a marriage (this was common law) is just an illogical business deal that only is recognised as such when the love is gone ... so deal with the business ASAP

    some of the thot processes going on in this thread leave me at a loss for words ... maybe amazing covers it

  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fat City View Post
    Thanks for the replies, guys. Fortunately, it has been an extremely amicable breakup. We have discussed the financial aspect of this refi the entire time....it's just come to the point where a decision must be made.

    We both realize she isn't legally obligated to pay me anything. If we were to sell the house instead of splitting it/me refinancing in my name.....we would have had to bring a check for ~$6K to closing. This is where we are basing our figures and decision from. We would have split that amount, had we stayed together and sold the house.

    She is willing to give me cash for half of both, the closing cost and "negative equity". I just wanted to get a little more feedback from the mags that may have gone through this before and I wasn't sure if the way we are looking at the situation is the way an objective party would (which is why i'm here).
    The only thing she should be paying you is the negative equity. You choosing to refinance a house and just not selling it puts you on the hook for the rest of the costs. You should have just sold it if you weren't planning on covering everything else. This is your new loan, not hers. why would you expect her to pay anything on it? I guess i'm not clear on that part. You are keeping a house she isnt. Why would you expect her to pay closing costs. That seems like a pretty unrealistic expectation. You both wanted her name off the loan, but you wanted to keep the house. The proper thing to do would have been to sell it and you go buy a new one. But, you wanted to keep it, so you had to pony up. Thats just my .02.

  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fat City View Post
    Hey all-
    So i'll make this as conscice as possible. I bought my current house with my GF ~4 years ago. We both split the payment the entire time we were together. We decided to go seperate ways earlier this year.
    I was able to refinance the mortgage in my name soley, and closed on that refi this afternoon....so now the house, deed etc are all in my name. The question I have is this:
    The "payoff" to to the previous mortgage holder at the time of the refinance (today) was ~$114,000. The house appraised at ~$108,000. With the closing cost rolled in ($4k), I now owe $118,000 on the house.

    I've talked to numerous friends/family about this situation and the all say that we should split this "negative equity" between us, and that she should be writing me a check for ~$3,000 for the negative equity (plus half of the closing cost on the refi, which was $4k).
    Does this sound correct?

    If it were the other way around (positive equity), i'd be writing -her- a check......so splitting this negative equity (and splitting closing cost) seems only fair.

    Any advice/input/experience is greatly appreciated here.
    Fats-
    Something just doesn't seem right with this.

    I think you have to "weigh" things differently. If it can be positively held that you did her a financial favor by cutting her out from any future debt obligation, then I can see perhaps splitting the closing fee of $4000. But ONLY the closing fee. Even in this case, expecting her to pay an additional $3000 to settle a "negative equity" that's only POTENTIAL (as you clearly are NOT selling now) seems a bit much. Her obligation to pay any negative balance was clearly severed and negated with the removal of her name.

    Because as you know full well, removing her name didn't just limit her losses, it also wholly negated any chance for future gain...while YOUR future gains have NOT been thusly negated. You have a gain potential, while she no longer does.

    Sure...you also keep a loss potential as well. But I presume you will be continuing to LIVE in the house, yes? While she, on the other hand, will be forced to pay for rent somehere. At least YOUR payments are paying down your obligation...even if a trifle slow. Her rent payments will pay down nothing.

    And most probably at sometime, the RE market in your area will reverse...giving you gain but nothing for her?

    Be happy if she even gives you half the closing and call it even. You say you talked to 'family'....her family too??? Wouldn't be surprised if her mother or father/whatever were talking her out of such nonsense right now.

    --
    "The reason death sticks so closely to life isn't biological necessity - it's envy. Life is so beautiful that death has fallen in love with it; a jealous, possesive love that grabs at what it can." by Yann Martel from Life of Pi



    Posted by DJSapp:
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  19. #69
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    have you shared this thread with your lawyer yet???
    ... jfost is really ignorant, he often just needs simple facts laid out for him...

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fat City View Post
    Hey all-


    I've talked to numerous friends/family about this situation and the all say that we should split this "negative equity" between us, and that she should be writing me a check for ~$3,000 for the negative equity (plus half of the closing cost on the refi, which was $4k).
    Does this sound correct?

    If it were the other way around (positive equity), i'd be writing -her- a check......so splitting this negative equity (and splitting closing cost) seems only fair.

    Any advice/input/experience is greatly appreciated here.
    Fats-
    You are asking to make a business deal after the fact. In real estate, the deal is done when the deed is transferred. These negotiations should have taken place prior to the refi.

    Maybe you could get her to pay you with an agreement that you split the equity gain when you sell the property later on.

    I suggest that you leave it... it's over.

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by DasBlunt View Post
    Isn't you buying the house again speculation on future equity?

    I think the only way you are entitled to money is if you both sold it, and you had to make up the difference. You bought it solo, so now you take the price hit solo? Something does not add up in the logic department.
    I actually agree with the Cunt on this one.
    Wow, no wonder it's been so hot out.
    No longer stuck.

    Quote Originally Posted by stuckathuntermtn View Post
    Just an uneducated guess.

  22. #72
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    Appraisals are just a way for the lender to justify loaning you the money. Your house is only worth what someone will pay you for it. You're out nothing based on the appraisal. I don't understand how she owes you for that. Not trying to be a dick, I just don't see it. As for the refi and closing costs, don't you benefit from having her off the note? Say you sell the house in 5 years for a profit, she's not entitled to any of that now. I think the best advice you've been given is to just move on with your life. You're lucky enough to have a good breakup, that's a win. Now on to the pics please.

  23. #73
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    Personally, I would walk away from it.

    If she feels some obligation to make it "fair" to you, take half the closing costs. She received the freedom from the mortgage. She signed up for half a debt an now you are taking full responsibility to let her off. Vagina does weird things to common sense eh?

    If she wanted to go buy another place, not being on your mortgage will definitely help so she did receive something. As for negative equity on an appraisal, you've got to eat that one. Yeah, you could write contracts to say if you ever profit you split but how could you possibly make it fair given she paid half for four years, you pay 100% moving forward, you don't know what appreciation/depreciation will be etc.

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