Eldora Expansion

[hawkgt]

EIS is underway for Eldora's expansion plan. 2 public meetings this week.

http://www.eldoraeis.com/

I am in favor of the improvements and expansion. Great ski area, great vibe, and excellent for upslope storms. The glades need some serious thinning.

Make your voice heard.....

[icelanticskier]

i always enjoyed eldora.

rog

[TransplantedFromRMNP]

the glades are just fine @ eldo. leave em be, there are enough boulderite yuppies up there where they shouldn't be anyways!...and how many new 6pack lifts do they need? 2, 3, 4? maybe they will be high speed detachable, Dave Hunter had better upgrade the lift op dept while they're at it WTF? - they will still be on wind closure a good number of days per yr. but if it helps them "compete" with the I70 madness then let them do it. hope it doesnt change the vibe too much

[TransplantedFromRMNP]

oh yeah, i always enjoyed eldora too

[Danno]

here's a good map of the proposed expansion.

http://eldoraeis.com/media/uploads/j...13_reduced.pdf

[BDKeg]

i dont think it will change the vibe that much and the glade expansion will be nice. The backcountry around lost lake chutes will still be intact and it looks like locals in eldora will not be able to hop on the new lift near their houses...sounds like a lot of win to me.

[Ivana Huckalot]

Editorial in Boulder Daily Camera.
http://www.dailycamera.com/guest-opi...st-environment

Seems like a compromise is in order. I agree with the article that says there should be a forested buffer of some sort between the ski area and the creek as runoff from the slopes and beetle kill spray will worsen pollution to the creek. And building a bridge across the creek? Why not keep the access contained to the resort.

[josef]

Am I missing something here? Do they not spray for beetles in that area regardless of a ski resort being there? I can understand the concern about chemicals from the snow making process because that would not otherwise but what other types of run off are they talking about? The guest post in the camera seemed to have a lot of "maybies" and "coulds" without a lot to back up their argument. I will say that their displacing moose arguement is totally rediculous.

[hawkgt]

^^^^forest service has been spraying around Eldora and camping areas for years, not so much for hard to reach / low use areas. Not aware of any chemicals in snow making.....

[mud]

The few NIMBY residents of Eldora and the owners of the ski area have been fighting for decades. They are all assholes.

The environmental impact of the expansion is minimal, so far the opponents of the expansion have yet to produce any evidence of what they claim is true.

[bobsdesk]

Question for those of you who know the area very well: will the terrain below Corona lift even be skiable without tons of man made snow? If not, let me get this straight: a ski resort in north america is going to expand to LOWER elevations that have less natural snow? I've seen a lot of this terrain in mid-winter on long walks out of hessie, and I honestly can't remember ever seeing more than 18" of rotten faceted mank below Corona.

[tommyvee]

Question for those of you who know the area very well: will the terrain below Corona lift even be skiable without tons of man made snow? If not, let me get this straight: a ski resort in north america is going to expand to LOWER elevations that have less natural snow? I've seen a lot of this terrain in mid-winter on long walks out of hessie, and I honestly can't remember ever seeing more than 18" of rotten faceted mank below Corona.

I ski in and around Eldora all winter, and the terrain below Carona is low angle, but it catches a lot of the snow that the Eldora wind rips off the Divide. So if they lay the trails out so they don't get wind-stripped I think minimal snow-making would be needed above the creek.

I am pretty conflicted about the expansion, because Eldora works so well with my self-employed software developer life, I ski powder in the morning, work in the afternoon when the powder is skied out, plus work on the bus up/down. Summit mid-week just does not work for me, so Eldora's survival is important to me. I think Eldora has a precarious business model, many weekday mornings I have been one of 4 or 5 people lapping Corona, and I always wonder how they even manage to pay lifties and Patrol when the only few skiers are all on season passes. So I think Eldora does need some business expansion just to keep the lifts turning (rumor has it they may not have the funds to replace existing lifts unless they have a couple of good years). Also Eldora's glades are full of beetle-kill, when those dead trees fall down the glades will be unskiable without extensive and expensive deadfall removal, which I wonder if Eldora has funding for.

But the expansion does have some down-sides. Thousands of hikers heading to Hessie will look up at ski area runs and infrastructure instead of a forested hillside, so the public experience of Indian Peaks will definitely be degraded somewhat, likewise for Eldora town people. The Forest Service does not currently broadcast spray for pine beetle in the expansion areas, so those areas do currently serve as a buffer to catch the chemicals that Eldora does use around their runs before the chemicals reach the creek. And the expansion that might keep Eldora in business might also erode Eldora's super-chill, hometown feeling, if customers actually start showing up on mid-week days.

Even weirder for me personally is that I and my wife have been active Boulder Country environmentalists (Sierra Club, CEC,etc.) for decades. So many of our old friends and organizations we have supported for years are taking positions against the expansion. I think the opposition arguments are over-blown, but there are some nuggets of truth too.

Bottom line is that I am too conflicted to take a public position either way, and am just hoping it works out for the best after the back and forth.

[tommyvee]

^^^^forest service has been spraying around Eldora and camping areas for years, not so much for hard to reach / low use areas. Not aware of any chemicals in snow making.....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snow_making
Wikipedia says the nucleating agents are frequently used in snowmaking, but not sure if Eldora does too. Either way the nucleating agents sound pretty innocuous. To me the biggest environmental impact of snowmaking is pulling water out of natural ecosystems (see Peterson Lake bottom at end of the season, mud flats and no fish...).

Many resorts also add a nucleating agent to ensure that as much water as possible freezes and turns into snow. These products are organic or inorganic materials that facilitate the water molecules to form the proper shape to freeze into ice crystals. The products are non-toxic and biodegradable.

[Ivana Huckalot]

Here's an older article about the beetle spraying at Eldora.
http://www.dailycamera.com/ci_13125810

I really wish they wouldn't spray. An expansion would be nice but I think that keeping it some distance from the creek is a good idea.

Now if we could just get them to turn it into mountain biking terrain in the summer....

[marshalolson]

is this thread supposed to be on tele tips?

[mud]

But the expansion does have some down-sides. Thousands of hikers heading to Hessie will look up at ski area runs and infrastructure instead of a forested hillside, so the public experience of Indian Peaks will definitely be degraded somewhat, likewise for Eldora town people.

The Indian Peaks are another 4 miles up the road to the trailhead. Currently you can already see the ski area from Hessie so I don't see the expansion changing the view that much.

Plus the way that whole area has changed in the last 20 years nobody that lives in Eldora should be complaining about the ski area impact. The whole Hessie - 4th of July trail head has increased in size and use by 20 times over in the last decade. If the citizens of Eldora are really concerned about the environment they would build a huge parking lot in town for a new trail head and close the road.

I plan to be at the meeting tomorrow and raise hell with these eco nazis.

[icelanticskier]

I ski in and around Eldora all winter, I ski powder in the morning, work in the afternoon when the powder is skied out. many weekday mornings I have been one of 4 or 5 people lapping Corona, and I always wonder how they even manage to pay lifties and Patrol when the only few skiers are all on season passes.

bliss^^^^^^^^

reminds me of b#$ke vt. love that

rog

[hawkgt]

is this thread supposed to be on tele tips?

what the hell do heel lifters know about skiing? have you seen the gear????

[tommyvee]

The Indian Peaks are another 4 miles up the road to the trailhead. Currently you can already see the ski area from Hessie so I don't see the expansion changing the view that much.
Plus the way that whole area has changed in the last 20 years nobody that lives in Eldora should be complaining about the ski area impact. The whole Hessie - 4th of July trail head has increased in size and use by 20 times over in the last decade. If the citizens of Eldora are really concerned about the environment they would build a huge parking lot in town for a new trail head and close the road.
I plan to be at the meeting tomorrow and raise hell with these eco nazis.

From Hessie to the Indian Peaks Wilderness boundary is 1.4 miles, if you claim 4 miles at the meeting you will lose credibility. But most peoples' experience of the Indian Peaks starts at Hessie, which is part of the Indian Peaks mountain range, even if not part of the official wilderness. And you can see ski runs from Hessie now, but they just look like grassy openings in the forest. Once lifts and structures are in place a few hundred yards from Hessie, the ski area will be much more in your face, when walking up and down from Hessie.

The whole 4th of July Road/Hessie use/parking situation is out of control, and the town and the Forest Service are talking about ways to fix it, including new parking areas, and a shuttle from Nederland High which is already running. That process is underway no matter what happens with Eldora expansion.

Recognizing the downsides, I still understand the business case for Eldora's expansion, and if Eldora were to go out of business, it would be a big loss.

[stupendous man]

eldora without night skiing is the worst. thing. ever.

[concretejungle]

eldora skiing is the worst. thing. ever.

FIFY.

My daughter really ought to thank me that she doesn't have to learn to ski there.

The issue is what tommyvee says, when the snow is good it's crowded but other than that is fairly empty. I'm not sure how to reconcile that with expansion but it is small and more terrain would improve it.

[mud]

Iommyvee, my point was that the IP wilderness is not going to be affected however based on the old farts I chatted up at tonight's meeting they think differently.

The recent plan seems to remove the Moose glade lift from the master plan based solely on the kneejerk reaction people have that the moose are going to be displaced if they put a lift in. I've never even seen a moose near Hessie, they seem smart enough to stay further west or up Jenny Creek.

The Jolly Jug lift will probably go in even though that area is probably the most sensitive to impact although since it has the name Jolly Jug it can't be as bad to the environment as Moose Glades in the public eyes. Nobody is looking at the research they are just making decisions based on the area's name.

[hawkgt]

The Jolly Jug lift will probably go in even though that area is probably the most sensitive to impact although since it has the name Jolly Jug it can't be as bad to the environment as Moose Glades in the public eyes. Nobody is looking at the research they are just making decisions based on the area's name.

this is the one that I thought would have not made it through..... sun baked south facing slope....

[Wildman]

Fellow BC skiers, hikers, fly fisherman, human beings...God know i love a midweek 20 inch upslope at Eldora...but aspects of the proposed expansion are completely unnecessary. A friend of mine who lives in Eldora town is starting a campaign to fight this expansion. Why? In his words:
"Let's simplify the issue at hand. It's really not that complex. Some discussion would be great. These points are based on corresponding letters:
A. This is located very close to the Hessie Trailhead - essentially on top of it. It's also home to one of the best fishing holes in the county. Why would you compromise that - not to mention our water supply - by extending the Eldora boundary right down to the creek?
B. This is a hot button. This is where the bridge would go. The area to the south of the creek is extremely dense, north facing trees with old growth forests, moss and great fishing. The very existence of the bridge is what brings Eldora town so deeply into this. Why not move the boundary up the hill a bit? Is it really worth the six extra turns? This too will have a significant impact on the stream.
C. Why has this area even been given to Eldora? It's absolutely pristine and unnecessary for even what Eldora proposes.
D. The Porcupine Park Nordic Trail is a wonderful, classic skiing only trail. It's going to be severely compromised by having a alpine trail (and skiers) intersect it in two places. Is it worth it?
I have no problems with any other parts of the expansion. What do you think? If you want to do something, check out this website with more information maps etc.. here...http://noeldoraexpansion.org/

If you feel compelled, sign the petition:
change.org petition.

To anyone who currently enjoys recreating in the IPW, or has ever visited Hessie or 4th of July Trailheads surely you understand that the beauty of this valley, old growth forest, streams, animals, and mountains is undeniable. I hope this information will resonate with you. Eldora is run by a bunch of assclowns, so lets stand up for our local community and for our environment...

To be clear: No Eldora Expansion is not opposed to all parts of the expansion plan. Not even close. We're all skiers and want the resort to succeed, but not at the cost of sacrificing some amazing wild places. Here are the four things we're opposed to with the plan.

The lands on the south side of Middle Boulder Creek between the community of Eldora and Hessie remain as high quality habitat and a wildlife movement corridor, a scenic backdrop to a major gateway into the Indian Peaks, and a buffer between the noise of the ski area, backcountry travelers, and the town of Eldora.

Bringing ski runs, a lift and snowmaking down to the bottom of the valley will erode the experience for the thousands of winter and summer recreationists who use the Fourth of July Road and Hessie area to access the Indian Peaks. In winter, snowshoers, cross-country skiers and walkers would hear the roar of snow-making. At their closest, the lift and runs will be approximately 150 feet from the Fourth of July Road. The new lift that is proposed will not replace the lift above it and will not get skiers directly to the top of the Corona Bowl. The new lift would add only a few hundred vertical feet of terrain below the current lift bases. In summer, hikers would be faced with the scarred hillsides of deforested ski runs. These disturbances are not qualities that are compatible with a major scenic gateway into the Indian Peaks Wilderness.

Through the creation of ski runs, the proposed expansion would heavily fragment a steep north-facing hillside that currently is densely forested with no roads and virtually no trails. It is used as a landscape linkage by wildlife, being positioned between the existing ski area and a major entrance for people into the Indian Peaks Wilderness. This area is adjacent to Middle Boulder Creek, which supports a healthy riparian ecosystem complete with extensive beaver pond wetlands. Wetlands, springs and rivulets are found on the hillside. Moose reside there. Boreal owls, three-toed woodpeckers and American martens are present. Black bears forage on the berry producing shrubs along the creek and under the dense forest, while mink have been seen along the creek. As lynx expand their range in Colorado, there is suitable habitat for migration as well as finding their favorite food, snowshoe hare.

[GPP33]

Fellow BC skiers, hikers, fly fisherman, human beings...God know i love a midweek 20 inch upslope at Eldora...but aspects of the proposed expansion are completely unnecessary. A friend of mine who lives in Eldora town is starting a campaign to fight this expansion. Why? In his words:
"Let's simplify the issue at hand. It's really not that complex. Some discussion would be great. These points are based on corresponding letters:
A. This is located very close to the Hessie Trailhead - essentially on top of it. It's also home to one of the best fishing holes in the county. Why would you compromise that - not to mention our water supply - by extending the Eldora boundary right down to the creek?
B. This is a hot button. This is where the bridge would go. The area to the south of the creek is extremely dense, north facing trees with old growth forests, moss and great fishing. The very existence of the bridge is what brings Eldora town so deeply into this. Why not move the boundary up the hill a bit? Is it really worth the six extra turns? This too will have a significant impact on the stream.
C. Why has this area even been given to Eldora? It's absolutely pristine and unnecessary for even what Eldora proposes.
D. The Porcupine Park Nordic Trail is a wonderful, classic skiing only trail. It's going to be severely compromised by having a alpine trail (and skiers) intersect it in two places. Is it worth it?
I have no problems with any other parts of the expansion. What do you think? If you want to do something, check out this website with more information maps etc.. here...http://noeldoraexpansion.org/

If you feel compelled, sign the petition:
change.org petition.

To anyone who currently enjoys recreating in the IPW, or has ever visited Hessie or 4th of July Trailheads surely you understand that the beauty of this valley, old growth forest, streams, animals, and mountains is undeniable. I hope this information will resonate with you. Eldora is run by a bunch of assclowns, so lets stand up for our local community and for our environment...

To be clear: No Eldora Expansion is not opposed to all parts of the expansion plan. Not even close. We're all skiers and want the resort to succeed, but not at the cost of sacrificing some amazing wild places. Here are the four things we're opposed to with the plan.

The lands on the south side of Middle Boulder Creek between the community of Eldora and Hessie remain as high quality habitat and a wildlife movement corridor, a scenic backdrop to a major gateway into the Indian Peaks, and a buffer between the noise of the ski area, backcountry travelers, and the town of Eldora.

Bringing ski runs, a lift and snowmaking down to the bottom of the valley will erode the experience for the thousands of winter and summer recreationists who use the Fourth of July Road and Hessie area to access the Indian Peaks. In winter, snowshoers, cross-country skiers and walkers would hear the roar of snow-making. At their closest, the lift and runs will be approximately 150 feet from the Fourth of July Road. The new lift that is proposed will not replace the lift above it and will not get skiers directly to the top of the Corona Bowl. The new lift would add only a few hundred vertical feet of terrain below the current lift bases. In summer, hikers would be faced with the scarred hillsides of deforested ski runs. These disturbances are not qualities that are compatible with a major scenic gateway into the Indian Peaks Wilderness.

Through the creation of ski runs, the proposed expansion would heavily fragment a steep north-facing hillside that currently is densely forested with no roads and virtually no trails. It is used as a landscape linkage by wildlife, being positioned between the existing ski area and a major entrance for people into the Indian Peaks Wilderness. This area is adjacent to Middle Boulder Creek, which supports a healthy riparian ecosystem complete with extensive beaver pond wetlands. Wetlands, springs and rivulets are found on the hillside. Moose reside there. Boreal owls, three-toed woodpeckers and American martens are present. Black bears forage on the berry producing shrubs along the creek and under the dense forest, while mink have been seen along the creek. As lynx expand their range in Colorado, there is suitable habitat for migration as well as finding their favorite food, snowshoe hare.

Thanks for the beta on the fishing hole!

I understand why you're taking this stance but your points of argument are pretty weak. If you get it so they can't blow snow within a certain distance of any home, especially at night, then it'll probably kill the viability of the whole plan. Hearing those things running all night would suck ass.