Thread: Eldora Expansion

EIS is underway for Eldora's expansion plan. 2 public meetings this week.

http://www.eldoraeis.com/

I am in favor of the improvements and expansion. Great ski area, great vibe, and excellent for upslope storms. The glades need some serious thinning.

Make your voice heard.....

i always enjoyed eldora.

rog

the glades are just fine @ eldo. leave em be, there are enough boulderite yuppies up there where they shouldn't be anyways!...and how many new 6pack lifts do they need? 2, 3, 4? maybe they will be high speed detachable, Dave Hunter had better upgrade the lift op dept while they're at it WTF? - they will still be on wind closure a good number of days per yr. but if it helps them "compete" with the I70 madness then let them do it. hope it doesnt change the vibe too much

oh yeah, i always enjoyed eldora too

here's a good map of the proposed expansion.

http://eldoraeis.com/media/uploads/j...13_reduced.pdf

i dont think it will change the vibe that much and the glade expansion will be nice. The backcountry around lost lake chutes will still be intact and it looks like locals in eldora will not be able to hop on the new lift near their houses...sounds like a lot of win to me.

Editorial in Boulder Daily Camera.
http://www.dailycamera.com/guest-opi...st-environment

Seems like a compromise is in order. I agree with the article that says there should be a forested buffer of some sort between the ski area and the creek as runoff from the slopes and beetle kill spray will worsen pollution to the creek. And building a bridge across the creek? Why not keep the access contained to the resort.

Am I missing something here? Do they not spray for beetles in that area regardless of a ski resort being there? I can understand the concern about chemicals from the snow making process because that would not otherwise but what other types of run off are they talking about? The guest post in the camera seemed to have a lot of "maybies" and "coulds" without a lot to back up their argument. I will say that their displacing moose arguement is totally rediculous.

^^^^forest service has been spraying around Eldora and camping areas for years, not so much for hard to reach / low use areas. Not aware of any chemicals in snow making.....

The few NIMBY residents of Eldora and the owners of the ski area have been fighting for decades. They are all assholes.

The environmental impact of the expansion is minimal, so far the opponents of the expansion have yet to produce any evidence of what they claim is true.

Question for those of you who know the area very well: will the terrain below Corona lift even be skiable without tons of man made snow? If not, let me get this straight: a ski resort in north america is going to expand to LOWER elevations that have less natural snow? I've seen a lot of this terrain in mid-winter on long walks out of hessie, and I honestly can't remember ever seeing more than 18" of rotten faceted mank below Corona.

Originally Posted by bobsdesk

Question for those of you who know the area very well: will the terrain below Corona lift even be skiable without tons of man made snow? If not, let me get this straight: a ski resort in north america is going to expand to LOWER elevations that have less natural snow? I've seen a lot of this terrain in mid-winter on long walks out of hessie, and I honestly can't remember ever seeing more than 18" of rotten faceted mank below Corona.

I ski in and around Eldora all winter, and the terrain below Carona is low angle, but it catches a lot of the snow that the Eldora wind rips off the Divide. So if they lay the trails out so they don't get wind-stripped I think minimal snow-making would be needed above the creek.

I am pretty conflicted about the expansion, because Eldora works so well with my self-employed software developer life, I ski powder in the morning, work in the afternoon when the powder is skied out, plus work on the bus up/down. Summit mid-week just does not work for me, so Eldora's survival is important to me. I think Eldora has a precarious business model, many weekday mornings I have been one of 4 or 5 people lapping Corona, and I always wonder how they even manage to pay lifties and Patrol when the only few skiers are all on season passes. So I think Eldora does need some business expansion just to keep the lifts turning (rumor has it they may not have the funds to replace existing lifts unless they have a couple of good years). Also Eldora's glades are full of beetle-kill, when those dead trees fall down the glades will be unskiable without extensive and expensive deadfall removal, which I wonder if Eldora has funding for.

But the expansion does have some down-sides. Thousands of hikers heading to Hessie will look up at ski area runs and infrastructure instead of a forested hillside, so the public experience of Indian Peaks will definitely be degraded somewhat, likewise for Eldora town people. The Forest Service does not currently broadcast spray for pine beetle in the expansion areas, so those areas do currently serve as a buffer to catch the chemicals that Eldora does use around their runs before the chemicals reach the creek. And the expansion that might keep Eldora in business might also erode Eldora's super-chill, hometown feeling, if customers actually start showing up on mid-week days.

Even weirder for me personally is that I and my wife have been active Boulder Country environmentalists (Sierra Club, CEC,etc.) for decades. So many of our old friends and organizations we have supported for years are taking positions against the expansion. I think the opposition arguments are over-blown, but there are some nuggets of truth too.

Bottom line is that I am too conflicted to take a public position either way, and am just hoping it works out for the best after the back and forth.

Originally Posted by hawkgt

^^^^forest service has been spraying around Eldora and camping areas for years, not so much for hard to reach / low use areas. Not aware of any chemicals in snow making.....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snow_making
Wikipedia says the nucleating agents are frequently used in snowmaking, but not sure if Eldora does too. Either way the nucleating agents sound pretty innocuous. To me the biggest environmental impact of snowmaking is pulling water out of natural ecosystems (see Peterson Lake bottom at end of the season, mud flats and no fish...).

Many resorts also add a nucleating agent to ensure that as much water as possible freezes and turns into snow. These products are organic or inorganic materials that facilitate the water molecules to form the proper shape to freeze into ice crystals. The products are non-toxic and biodegradable.

Here's an older article about the beetle spraying at Eldora.
http://www.dailycamera.com/ci_13125810

I really wish they wouldn't spray. An expansion would be nice but I think that keeping it some distance from the creek is a good idea.

Now if we could just get them to turn it into mountain biking terrain in the summer....

is this thread supposed to be on tele tips?

Originally Posted by tommyvee

But the expansion does have some down-sides. Thousands of hikers heading to Hessie will look up at ski area runs and infrastructure instead of a forested hillside, so the public experience of Indian Peaks will definitely be degraded somewhat, likewise for Eldora town people.

The Indian Peaks are another 4 miles up the road to the trailhead. Currently you can already see the ski area from Hessie so I don't see the expansion changing the view that much.

Plus the way that whole area has changed in the last 20 years nobody that lives in Eldora should be complaining about the ski area impact. The whole Hessie - 4th of July trail head has increased in size and use by 20 times over in the last decade. If the citizens of Eldora are really concerned about the environment they would build a huge parking lot in town for a new trail head and close the road.

I plan to be at the meeting tomorrow and raise hell with these eco nazis.

Originally Posted by tommyvee

I ski in and around Eldora all winter, I ski powder in the morning, work in the afternoon when the powder is skied out. many weekday mornings I have been one of 4 or 5 people lapping Corona, and I always wonder how they even manage to pay lifties and Patrol when the only few skiers are all on season passes.

bliss^^^^^^^^

reminds me of b#$ke vt. love that

rog

Originally Posted by marshalolson

is this thread supposed to be on tele tips?

what the hell do heel lifters know about skiing? have you seen the gear????

Originally Posted by mud

The Indian Peaks are another 4 miles up the road to the trailhead. Currently you can already see the ski area from Hessie so I don't see the expansion changing the view that much.
Plus the way that whole area has changed in the last 20 years nobody that lives in Eldora should be complaining about the ski area impact. The whole Hessie - 4th of July trail head has increased in size and use by 20 times over in the last decade. If the citizens of Eldora are really concerned about the environment they would build a huge parking lot in town for a new trail head and close the road.
I plan to be at the meeting tomorrow and raise hell with these eco nazis.

From Hessie to the Indian Peaks Wilderness boundary is 1.4 miles, if you claim 4 miles at the meeting you will lose credibility. But most peoples' experience of the Indian Peaks starts at Hessie, which is part of the Indian Peaks mountain range, even if not part of the official wilderness. And you can see ski runs from Hessie now, but they just look like grassy openings in the forest. Once lifts and structures are in place a few hundred yards from Hessie, the ski area will be much more in your face, when walking up and down from Hessie.

The whole 4th of July Road/Hessie use/parking situation is out of control, and the town and the Forest Service are talking about ways to fix it, including new parking areas, and a shuttle from Nederland High which is already running. That process is underway no matter what happens with Eldora expansion.

Recognizing the downsides, I still understand the business case for Eldora's expansion, and if Eldora were to go out of business, it would be a big loss.

eldora without night skiing is the worst. thing. ever.

Originally Posted by stupendous man

eldora skiing is the worst. thing. ever.

FIFY.

My daughter really ought to thank me that she doesn't have to learn to ski there.

The issue is what tommyvee says, when the snow is good it's crowded but other than that is fairly empty. I'm not sure how to reconcile that with expansion but it is small and more terrain would improve it.

Iommyvee, my point was that the IP wilderness is not going to be affected however based on the old farts I chatted up at tonight's meeting they think differently.

The recent plan seems to remove the Moose glade lift from the master plan based solely on the kneejerk reaction people have that the moose are going to be displaced if they put a lift in. I've never even seen a moose near Hessie, they seem smart enough to stay further west or up Jenny Creek.

The Jolly Jug lift will probably go in even though that area is probably the most sensitive to impact although since it has the name Jolly Jug it can't be as bad to the environment as Moose Glades in the public eyes. Nobody is looking at the research they are just making decisions based on the area's name.

Originally Posted by mud

The Jolly Jug lift will probably go in even though that area is probably the most sensitive to impact although since it has the name Jolly Jug it can't be as bad to the environment as Moose Glades in the public eyes. Nobody is looking at the research they are just making decisions based on the area's name.

this is the one that I thought would have not made it through..... sun baked south facing slope....