Thread: photog copyright ethics

So, thought i 'd fly this by some of you peeps who have a much better finger on the pulse of such things.

Proud papa of two amazing boys. We hired a pro photog to take newborn pics of #1. Loved the shots, spent $1200 on a bunch of shots and had her frame mat a family shot and 3 pic montgage. FFWD 2.5yrs to #2. Photog comes to our place, takes shots. dont like them quite as much as round one but still end up spending $1050 for some framed n matted shots and some unframed prints. Wanted to do a canvas of one shot but found her pricing of a canvas to be downright offensive @ nearly $600. Said fuck it and paid her $95 for a 8x10 of the shot we would have liked in the canvas and intend to scan it and use a stupid groupon i bought a while back for $60 for nice sized canvas reproduction.

so here's what im hoping you clowns can clarify for me. If i've already paid my photog, and handsomely at that, should i have any remorse for bypassing her vastly overpriced canvas? If i paid for the photo, and its not for commercial, (ie i aint making money off her work) why shouldn't i have the rights to produce a canvas off the work i already bought. In a nutshell, why are the rights to a photo any different to an mp3 i legitimately paid for?

When you buy a photo or pay a photog it can be many things. Either for a specific usage, prints only, or you can buy all of the rights outright.

Did you sign a contract? That would spell out what exactly you're buying.

That being said, $600 for a canvas is pretty bad, so don't pay that much. Can you just buy a digital file for like $100 bucks?

I she won't sell you one, then scan away.

The photographer is the owner of the photo's unless they sell you the rights...you do not have the "right" to scan a photograph to reproduce as a canvas because you have not purchased that right.

Why not buy a digital full res copy and then use that and let her know that you are printing it yourself...seems reasonable. I really hope the printing place doesn't allow you to sneak around a copyright like you want. Why not just frame the print you already have?

Self entitlement thinking a bit.... I went to a store and dropped a crazy $1050 for some sweet skis. I wanted to buy some ski boots but the pricing was downright offensive @ nearly $600. Why shouldn't I have the right to get them from free since I already spent so much on the skis? I won't be using the boot commercially so i'll just take them anyways. Same thing.

Don't be a douche and just see if you can buy a copy for that purpose to do yourself. If the photog doesn't let you use some alternate option then they are also a douche.

You're complaining about price after you already paid someone $1,200 to shoot pics of a kid?

Photographer knows you've got some coin to throw around and is going to use that to his/her advantage.

if you didn't buy rights then ethically, you shouldn't scan the print, not to mention, it won't look that great...

Did you buy a cd of the files? If not, next time be sure to pick that package.

That said, $600 for a canvas is ludicrous.

there are a lot of other cool printing options as well. Since you aren't a photog, Millers Professional Imaging might not do the job, but look at their acrylic prints in the "wall art products" section of the menu. Also, adorama is having a sale on brushed aluminum prints. Typically those have a lustre finish, but adorama will add a glossy finish. Cool looking prints, maybe a little unique for the house...

So a couple of clarifications. Our photographer does not sell nor include the digital original with anything. Real non starter for me but a couple of thoughtful friends of ours went in together and gave us a gift certificate for the initial sitting fee and $200 towards prints as a baby gift thus we were already locked in. If it had been up to me initially, i certainly would have sought out a photog who was willing to include or sell the digi rights.

While she is on the spendy side, i really feel the canvas was disproportionately so. Total photography jong here but how is materials+labor+margin on a 12x18 canvas nearly double what it cost us to have a B&W 11x14 print framed and matted?

Originally Posted by time2clmb

The photographer is the owner of the photo's unless they sell you the rights...you do not have the "right" to scan a photograph to reproduce as a canvas because you have not purchased that right.

Why not buy a digital full res copy and then use that and let her know that you are printing it yourself...seems reasonable. I really hope the printing place doesn't allow you to sneak around a copyright like you want. Why not just frame the print you already have?

Self entitlement thinking a bit.... I went to a store and dropped a crazy $1050 for some sweet skis. I wanted to buy some ski boots but the pricing was downright offensive @ nearly $600. Why shouldn't I have the right to get them from free since I already spent so much on the skis? I won't be using the boot commercially so i'll just take them anyways. Same thing.

Agree it is self entitlement thinking somewhat but think your analogy is off a bit. More like buying skis but only having the green light to use them for lift served and needing to pay extra for the right to go off piste/touring with them.

I guess i have a hard time thinking of a photo differently than an mp3 or dvd. If i've paid for it, i feel like i should be able to use it for my own personal enjoyment as i see fit, be it on my pc, my tv, or my wall. Music industry finally figured this out while MPIAA still has their head up their ass about it.

Here because she is not willing to sell/provide me with the original of a picture that i have paid for, plus the context of her having been more than adequately patronized for her time and efforts i do admit it is easier for me to rationalize taking rights with picture that i do not technically have.

Originally Posted by Hott Butt Mud

You're complaining about price after you already paid someone $1,200 to shoot pics of a kid?

Teh money was total cost for a host of prints, a few also framed and matted and a few gift wrapped for the grandparents. Provided more to give context to the situation and show that she has made some decent coin off of us already for the 3-4hrs of time she invested in us.

Originally Posted by splitter

if you didn't buy rights then ethically, you shouldn't scan the print, not to mention, it won't look that great...

again, photo jong here but if i have a 8x10 original, and use a high quality 600dpi scanner i should have plenty of resolution for a 12x18 canvas no?

All of this stuff should have been discussed prior, perhaps a written contract or some thing for use or a price list was reviewed before hand? There shouldn't really be any pricing suprises like this after the fact. Talk to the photog to try some alternative???

Once again, the photographer retains ownership of the photo and you have not purchased the rights outright. You can "feel" that this is wrong or unfair and ultimately ignore that fact and compare it to other industries or rationalize it however you want but it doesn't change this fact due to personal opinion.

Surely there has to be some reasable agreement you guys can come up with...the person would have to be an idiot to not value you as a customer who has paid a lot of money so far. Or you can just do what you want to do anyways.

Ethics vs reality. You buy a DVD of my work and want to burn another copy for yourself, go for it. You cheap out, buy a small photo, scan it poorly and print it to canvas for your own "enjoyment". Who the balls cares. Is this cat ever coming to your house again?

Some of the "higher end" photogs don't dump all photos on to a disk, and many do not include the original...only the edited "best" ones that feel they represent their work best and do not want people altering originals and having their names attached as the photog.

Post this at fredmiranda.com to see how some of them rationalize it....some of it makes sense, some is ego b.s.

You can always pay a shitty photog to take 600 pics for you for dirt cheap and just dump all of the unedited photos on to a disk for you to do whatever you want, or anything in between. Some don't give a shit, some are very particular with how they want their work out there. Dime a dozen.

Just see if you can buy a full res copy of the one you want...if they say no then that's kind of fucked IMO.

Originally Posted by time2clmb

Self entitlement thinking a bit.... I went to a store and dropped a crazy $1050 for some sweet skis. I wanted to buy some ski boots but the pricing was downright offensive @ nearly $600. Why shouldn't I have the right to get them from free since I already spent so much on the skis? I won't be using the boot commercially so i'll just take them anyways. Same thing.

The difference is that you can only get those boots for that price at any store.

A 12x18 canvas print hard costs should be no more then $100, so the mark-up for the licensing of the photo is $500 which seems pretty insane considering that the OP has already dropped $2k on photos/prints/etc.

I would work with the photog and show them prices of canvas prints. I have tried several online shops (especially http://www.canvasondemand.com) and the print quality is top notch (I have had 24x40" prints made that look fantastic), so don't buy their BS of quality. Then it comes down to negotiating on the price of licensing and I would hope $500 is deemed ludicrous.