Thread: Best Shop for HeliCoils in Greater Seattle Area

Ran into some mounting problems on a pair of Billy Goats I recently acquired.
They were drilled for Jesters for a BSL of 315mm on the line.
I want to mount FKS for a BSL 293mm on the line as well.
Check this out: I lined them up in photoshop with templates and matched the BSLs only to find this dissapointment:

So I am looking to get those two holes HeliCoiled and was wondering if anyone has suggestions on the best shop around.
Trying to avoid having a bad experience and just looking for a good shop who can do it one and done.

that's so Raven...

Make sure whoever does that has a drill press and knows what the fuck they are doing. Looks like helicoils should work (perhaps with some filler material and lots of epoxy) but it would be practically impossible to drill the helicoil holes in the right place with a hand drill.

Hence the search for a shop who DOES know what they're doing and have done it before.

You likely don't want heli-coils (they're not big enough). You want inserts. You can either get away with brass/plastic inserts and traditional ski screws (relatively easy, most shops have experience) or you can do something like binding freedom inserts and machine screw (more difficult, most shops don't have experience.)

FWIW, a drill press is not necessary for brass/plastic inserts. Most shops would drill for these inserts using the factory jig. Generally, brass/plastic inserts are designed to go into a 5/16 hole, and jigs are designed with a 5/16 hole.

Most shops can do what you need. I've heard good things about Pro Ski Service.

Although I have limited experience with them, those pound-in inserts seem to work. But aren't they roughly the same diameter as the helicoil drill that's part of the ski helicoil kit? I'm talking about the helicoil kit designed to be used with the stock ski screws (ABS), what you are calling "traditional ski screws."

Go see Sam at Second Ascent. I don't know if that shop does them but Sam did a lot of them at the old shop he worked for.

Originally Posted by TheRaven

Hence the search for a shop who DOES know what they're doing and have done it before.

and that's even MORE Raven!

Originally Posted by Big Steve

Although I have limited experience with them, those pound-in inserts seem to work. But aren't they roughly the same diameter as the helicoil drill that's part of the ski helicoil kit? I'm talking about the helicoil kit designed to be used with the stock ski screws (ABS), what you are calling "traditional ski screws."

I've had good success with the pound-in repair inserts, although I've long since switched to helicoils.
However, the plastic inserts:
http://www.tognar.com/ski-binding-ho...screw-inserts/
http://www.slidewright.com/nylon-tap...1.html?cat=133
... use a 5/16" drill bit (like skimaxpower said), or hmm, 7.9375mm.
I didn't find any official markings or documentation for my helicoil drill bit, but it measures out about 5.95mm.
(Which makes sense, because the helicoil has pretty wide threads, screwing into the hole, whereas the plastic insert has to be pounded into a much wider hole.)

Those dimensions sound about right. By the time the helicoil hole is tapped and the helicoil threaded in, the cross section is roughly the same as the pound-in insert, right?

I'd personally trust evo in Fremont or Gerk's in Redmond. Not saying others are bad - but I know enough reliable folks at these shops and have seen enough of their work that they'd be who I'd turn to for this class of messing about...

None of the above. go to world cup if they're open.

This is just the toe piece that has a conflict, btw. The heel has plenty of room to mount at my BSL. But I'm still in the dark as to what would be stronger (better, more reliable solution) between a Helicoil and an insert. It's sounding like inserts are the way to go simply because the insert hole will just cover the footprint of both the Jester and FKS holes and provide a clean, easy thread for the FKS.

Originally Posted by Big Steve

Those dimensions sound about right. By the time the helicoil hole is tapped and the helicoil threaded in, the cross section is roughly the same as the pound-in insert, right? If those dims are correct, then a binding jig could be used with the 5/16" bit and then those holes drilled with the helicoil drill bit.

Yes, the helicoil diameter -- measured uninstalled of course -- is ~7.9mm, which seems like it would be only minimally compressed when screwed into the hole.
The plastic insert diameter is a bit bigger, more like ~8.0mm, but it's being pounded into and hence compressed into the hole with the 7.9375mm bit . . . although I suppose the resulting hole diameter from a 7.9375mm bit depends on how carefully the hole is drilled?
Either way, the diameters for the helicoil and plastic inserts are very very similar, which of course makes sense since they're enveloping the same screw size.
However, that must be a typo when you seemed to suggest drilling first with the 5/16" bit then with the helicoil bit (since that's a larger diameter followed by a smaller diameter)?
Anyway, in a weird coincidence, the collar diameter on standard ski binding drill bits is almost exactly the same as the 5/16" shank, so it fits just fine in jigs. However, the 5/16" bit of course lacks a collar, so fashion one of out duct tape, and with that super-big diameter, be careful -- kind of scary to see that big long wide bit up against your precious ski! Also, for the helicoil drill bit, even though it has a collar (with the same diameter as regular ski binding bits), it's set way too far back, so it's essentially worthless.

Jondrums had talked about an oversized insert for repairs like this where you need a larger diameter than an insert or helicoil. I have seen similar inserts available, but it would take a good search to find them

^^BindingFreedom.com has what ya need.

I'd epoxy the existing hole w/fiberglass strips and then drill the new holes w/ a drill press. Expensive (cuz you need the installation kit too), but it'll get the job done fairly easily, I think. Hell, I'm not expert or anything, but I'd do it myself if they were my skis. I bet the shop charges you $100+ for the mount (though I could be way, WAY off).

Originally Posted by auvgeek

I bet the shop charges you $100+ for the mount (though I could be way, WAY off).

I'm looking at rates from Seattle Pro Ski Service and they are saying $5 an insert and $30 for a mount. I could see paying another $20 or so to stand over their shoulders and watch them do it

They'll definitely charge you $40 for the "binding remount", but probably $50 for the "custom mount" + $40 for inserts + tax = ~$100. IME, it always costs a bit more upon checkout than they list on the site.

Anyway, I'd go talk to the guys at both World Cup and Pro Ski and see which one you're more comfortable with.

Originally Posted by Jonathan S.

However, that must be a typo when you seemed to suggest drilling first with the 5/16" bit then with the helicoil bit (since that's a larger diameter followed by a smaller diameter)?

Brain fart. I edited that.

Originally Posted by auvgeek

^^BindingFreedom.com has what ya need.

That link goes to a helicoil. Standard BF insert would not have a large enough cross section to deal with OP's hole conflict.

Originally Posted by TheRaven

I'm looking at rates from Seattle Pro Ski Service and they are saying $5 an insert and $30 for a mount. I could see paying another $20 or so to stand over their shoulders and watch them do it

Pro Ski is also closed for the season I believe

why not just mount -1 and not have an ultra sketchy mount?

Originally Posted by Big Steve

That link goes to a helicoil. Standard BF insert would not have a large enough cross section to deal with OP's hole conflict.

Which is why I linked to the helicoil. Jethro said "it would take a good search to find them," and was merely saying bf.com has them available. Though the cost of an insert installation kit and inserts is about what it would cost to have them mounted somewhere, though you'd at least get some tools for future use if you did it yourself.

Marshal - IIRC, TheRaven is a smaller guy and somewhat worried about the "playfulness" of the BG. Not sure he wants to go -1.

Auvgeek - spot on. I mean, I'm 5'9" and 150 after a buffet, and the 186 is already a bit big. In theory, I could mount at +2ish and avoid the problem, which I may end up doing to save $100+. I just had my heart set on mounting on the line to see how they are supposed to preform.

TheRaven, are you using jondrums' FKS paper template in photoshop?

Yep, I imported both the FKS template and the Jester template into PS and lined them up as they would (do) sit on the ski. I printed the template out just to be sure about the BSL for the jester mount and they match up perfectly.