Thread: Advice: 4x tippet breaking!

2 situations, both in high mountain steams, cold, pocket water, guessing ~17” fish-with some weight to them;

Situation 1-Hopper/dropper: get a take on a ~#18 nymph set hook. Fish shows its fat side, I have the fish on the rod, it makes a big head shake and breaks the tippet. The 16-20 knot does not fail, the tippet behind the knot broke, it was as if you cut the line with a razor blade (the tag end of tippet and “knot-pile” was still on working line)

Situation 2- hopper, surface smash. The next few things all happened at the same time; I set with a strip and raise rod tip, the fish does a big roll to expose its chunky side covered in beautiful cutty spots, and SNAP the tippet fails in the double surgeons knot (leader/tippet) I was using a 3x tapered leader, I was deep into the leader as I wanted a nice stiff section because it was small water.
I do a lot of double nymph/indicator with 3x and RARELY get broke off. So what gives here; has the beefy 3x made me lazy, should I have used a uni-uni from the thick end of the leader to the supple 4x? I know it may be hard to say without seeing but I figured I would throw it out to the collective as I have gained much knowledge here.

Thanks, here is a few pics from Situation-2 day, today.

Is the 4x old or sat in the sun/hot car? Is it umpqua, in my experience they tend to be nice and supple but can be more fragile than their stated strength. Uber stiff rod that doesn't help protect the tippet much?

For situation 2 you might try an albright knot since it sounds like your tying the 4x into a pretty thick part of the leader, they tend to join bigger differences in size better.

You could try using a double extruded fluorocarbon for your terminal tippet. Worth every extra cent just for flies not lost. I'm still hoarding Orvis MaxKnot which is no longer available (but will supposedly be reintroduced someday....according to tgr's local Orvis R&D guy). Rio Lines sells Fluoroflex Plus tippet which I think is also a double extruded fluoro. Both are probably made by Seaguar anyhowz. Yeah, I used to think $15 for a little spool of tippet was an outrageous ripoff until I used it and realized how much better it is than $4 nylon or the brittleness of regular $10 fluoro. All the benefits of fluoro but it also seats knots well, is stretchy and gives shock absorbtion. It is not abrasion resistant, though, as double extrusion puts a soft coating over a core. Frays easily and can cut if a fish takes it under a ledge.

Buy new leader and tippet. Sometimes you inexplicably get a bad batch brand new from the shop. 4x should be fine in those situations, sounds like your technique was fine, so... I've gotten used to 6x on the 'Juan so I use it on my droppers all over and it's fine until the browns or cutthroats start putting some real teeth to it. It don't like fluoro myself but mostly because the knots piss me off when they come unraveled. I use Rio pretty much exclusively, but I have definitely had a few bad spools, and you have to replace old spools (which you should do with any brand).

Could be the fish gods frowning on you. Sometimes a tooth in the wrong place will cut it clean off even if everything's perfect, but that's rare IMO. Usually there is a nick or something you didn't detect - run your fingers down your leader or tippet if you snag or catch a fish.

From the wording in your post, it sounds like you know what you are doing, so this may sound like some of the dumbest advice ever, but, are you wetting the tippet/leaders on above the knot before you are pulling it tight? Just curious since it is breaking above the knot. If so, throw it out, and you got a bad batch.

This may also sound like dumb advice, but if you are fishing cold mountain streams, that are hopefully pretty darn clear, you might catch more fish with smaller tippet. I am in CO, so I know we are a little weird, but I would never fish for trout with 4x and 3x, unless I was throwing streamers. The biggest leaders I use are 5x, with a dropper on 6x...and I rarely break off fish...now the 7x on the South Platte, I do break off fish there pretty regularly....but that happens I guess when you are hooking into 20"+ fish on 7x and a size 22-24 nymph.

thanks for the responses.

I don’t think the spool was exposed to extreme sun/heat.

I think I will not use that spool of froghair anymore. It does not look like the frog hair FC is double extruded, I have been very happy with their tippet (till this time).I have been kind of down on Rio, but maybe it’s time to go back.

I was wetting the knots, I don’t think that is dumb at all, remembering the basics is key.

Dam Gretch, your using small tippets on the regular? I live in steamboat, fish a lot on Yampa 3x seems to work well (I know guides that use 0x with streamers here so 3x is small), of course I can’t be sure of what I am missing. Situation-2 was clear but very rocky and aerated water.

so this is what I am going to do; throw away the 4x froghair i got and get some FC, hopefully double extrude, and while I'm at it go all in and use some 5x FC see if I hook up more (Honestly that does not even seem fair to the fish!)

Thanks again.

Not trying to pimp Rio or anything, it's just what I use.

Speaking of tippets, I really really really like the trouthunter fluoro tippets. At $23 a spool, they're pricey, but when you go and figure out how much it costs per foot(/yard/meter/etc), it's actually pretty comparable to some of the others out there. Before picking up some of the 6x and 7x fluoro earlier this summer, I had no idea that there was that much difference between tippets... well, long story short, I'm never buying any other tippets again!

Assuming the tippet isn't bad...

First Thought is that the big size jump is giving you bad power transfer and the tippet is piling up on the water resulting in overhand knots.

Second thought is that when the fish pulls, the leader butt is too stout to stretch, putting all of the stress on the tippet section. Judging from your description of the break, I'd bet on this being the problem. You can combat it some by lengthening the tippet, but if you go too long then you start piling up and knotting.

Often on small creeks you can get away with this setup because the fish are small, but hook up with something bigger on a short line, with a short leader, and short tippet, and your toast.

I think you need 18" of tippet to achieve the advertised breaking strength.

use a slower rod... don't set the hook so hard... use bigger tippet

If the break is right at the knot...the section ABOVE the tippet is usually too SHORT. The longer that section is...the more it'll stretch.

*Might wanna try a lighter (& fast or medium "action" rod) or shorter rod...lighter reel as well, or even try going down on the line # outfit.. Line can often add weight to a strike...so changing your usual outfit..line, rod...can really make a difference.
Swinging a slower or medium "action" rod uses more of the mid-section which will add more weight when it comes time to "lift" or "pull".....as opposed to a "faster action" rod using the top 30%..which is a lot thinner & lighter..so if you're stuck with a log, go light with your strike...physically..keep your grip very loose..especially as your lift to set the hook.. Loop the line through a weaker finger in your rodgrip can help soften up a hookset too. Also maybe it's time for a little adult liquid refreshment to ease up things. From the looks of the grip you've got on that brown...you could ease off a little...;-)
Often with a heavy reel and/or just rod....you'll also be using far too much arm and a stiffened wrist(over time) in supporting the heavier component(s)....y/n?
$.01

all you fluoro guys out there, i want to use some 6.5-7x fluoro tippet this weekend for some spooky fish on the west branch of the delaware, but i don't want to replace all my mono tippet. have you had problems joining mono 5-6x mono tippet and 6-7x fluoro tippet?

thanks

No, not anymore, but that's probably because I don't even carry 6x in my gear anymore. 5x MaxKnot is as fine as I will use. Double extruded fluoro has a softer outer layer and seats knots on nylon mono really well. Do not replace all your mono! If you are fishing dry fly, remember that fluoro sinks due to its higher density and nylon is somewhat bouyant; so to keep a small dry up on the surface film you use a fluoro terminal tippet but the rest of the leader is nylon. Plus fluoro is expensive. If you are deep nymphing, then a full fluoro leader is useful to get down fast. Or if you are flats fishing in clear conditions for super spooky permit or bones, then you would use a full fluoro rig.

kokomas-albright it and you'll be fine