Thread: If Giant doesn't announce 650 carbon Reign soon, here is my new bike....

Because MORE options are better. That goes for restaurants, bars, skis, and bikes. And boobs. Why are there cutting edge DPS skis, when Rossignol makes ones that work just fine?

Originally Posted by bsavery

Are there any 29ers with more than 130mm travel?

http://www.pinkbike.com/news/Niner-W...ideo-2012.html

I don't think this is the only one. I pedaled one of these around, seemed like it would be super fun.

Originally Posted by rideit

Because MORE options are better. That goes for restaurants, bars, skis, and bikes. Why are there cutting edge DPS skis, when Rossignol makes ones that work just fine?

el douché

There are alot of ski similarities to be made. There are still a shitload of carver/corduroy burning skis sold for some reason, even bump skis are still available. Maybe because people like to ride them. Not everyone likes to ride a 26" squishy bike on gnar terrain. Friend of mine rode the hundo on a custom ti Black Sheep ss with rigid front and rides Bergen Peak 2-3 times a week on it. He can ride whatever he wants, he owns a bike shop, he rides this because...he likes it.

Except, being an early adopter to a new wheel size means less options. 29ers are beyond mainstream, yet you still only get a handful of tread options from tire manufacturers, and most of them are shitty. They're just now figuring out geometry on 29ers, so frame choice has been limited unless you like steep and looonnnnggg.

Bag, I think you haven't been paying attention. If you have a favorite 26" tread, you are going to see it (or something like it, or better) by the end of the year. 650 isn't new, it's actually ooooold...

Does your lust bike have to be carbon?^^

Originally Posted by rideit

Because MORE options are better. That goes for restaurants, bars, skis, and bikes. Why are there cutting edge DPS skis, when Rossignol makes ones that work just fine?

what tangible difference is there to you? what about a 1.5" larger wheel makes riding more fun to you? what is your subjective opinion?

i have ridden 650b. i have my own opinions. that is fine. i think they climb *slightly* quicker in a same gear, but i found myself slowing cadence, increasing the work, or having to upshift once with the 650b, so the net gear-inches in the real world, for me, are about the same as a 26'er. but yes, if you can maintain the same cadence at the same gear ratio you will go 6% further with each pedal stroke. i did find them to descend fairly similarly to a 26'er.

my question is why YOU, on a personal level, prefer 650b... hence the question. climbing? descending? etc...

10 restaurants walking distance to your house are great, but not if they are all taco bell, macdonalds, burger king, etc.

Originally Posted by rideit

Bag, I think you haven't been paying attention. If you have a favorite 26" tread, you are going to see it (or something like it, or better) by the end of the year. 650 isn't new, it's actually ooooold...

One of these days, I'm going to come join you in fantasy land.

Ok, you can sleep in the shed with Woo. Btw, what are you current 'favorite' 26" tires?

Originally Posted by rideit

Bag, I think you haven't been paying attention. If you have a favorite 26" tread, you are going to see it (or something like it, or better) by the end of the year. 650 isn't new, it's actually ooooold...

This hasn't happened with 29ers yet. Perhaps when maxxis comes out with a 29er dhf and specialized has their 29er butcher. To say that you'll see it or something better, in 650b by the end of the year, is a bit misguided.

Difference is that 29er dh tire weights are just astronomical. As is their centrifugal and rotational properties. It is, IMO, part of the 'dimInishing returns' of the 29er size.

650=bike companies running out of stuff to sell and hoping that our society's desire to be new and cool will put food on their table.

Just my opinion and I'd demo one if the opportunity presented itself. If I needed a new bike I would consider one if I liked how it rode. Would I go out of my way to get a 650 because it was a 650, hell no. Marshal nailed it 5% less or more...95% of the population including me probably couldn't tell a discernable difference.

As far as Rideit...if he needs a new bike, why not consider it?

That pretty much sums it up, I won't be able to 'know' its properties unless I own one, and I can easily move it if I don't dig it. I do know that I do NOT like how 29ers ride for ME. Why not give it a go? Personally, I could give a shit what the 'industry' is pushing, apparently, a LOT of the 'industry' is resisting, so that notion is a bit conspiratorial.
Here is a good primer as to varying attitudes among some key industry players, it is interesting.
http://forums.mtbr.com/650b/manufact...0b-793625.html

We never landed on the moon.

Originally Posted by Conundrum

We never landed on the moon.

Beer->nose->screen.

I have to admit, I'm kinda with Marshal on this one...why?

The guys at Specialized swear they have tested 650B extensively and all their riders came back saying that they don't really see a problem with the wheel size, but also saw no real benefit over 29" for the XC/endurance guys and 26" for everyone else. I don't believe they are full of shit when they make those statements cause those guys really want to build the best bikes they can. I'm no fanboy, but they are a rider driven company. I know even many short girls are doing great in XC on 29" HT's. The people I know in the industry all say they are being forced into this wheel size because a few players are pushing it really hard and you can't fight the momentum it's already gained. Hell, I'm not 100% satisfied with the tire choices available in 26" just because I really like running my Stan's rims and single ply Minions don't play well with them. I agree with Bag's the 29" tire options are still focused toward XC weenies too much. Just cause you make a casing bigger does not make that the tread anyone really wants or needs.

BTW - more options is not necessarily better at all. The market is a specific size...if you overdilute each small portion of the market with more options you will quickly end up with fewer good options in many categories. Also, a larger style count means less frequent changeover to better designs because they can only update so many models per year. In the end, they will each focus on the meat of the market, which isn't really where people like myself and many others I know live. In the past, that was the 5" travel 26" light trail bike market which is a bike I've never owned unless you consider the original I-drive at 4.7" there. Lately it's been the 4" 29er market. Suddenly they are all scrambling to build 650B bikes with 130-140mm of travel due fork options. In the meantime, where is the carbon Reign, the new RFX, a carbon Firebird, an improved Mojo HD (150-170mm options please). All these companies have limits to their resources based on growth in sales. If you sell more styles, but less qty of each you will have lower margins on each sale and that gets even slimmer when you figure in R&D costs & tooling to bring each style to market. Options are only good if they are working on the options you want, if not, it's just delaying you getting that dream bike you've been waiting to come to market. Unfortunately, that's my camp.

One thing I keep thinking is that I want my big bike and my little bike to feel as similar as possible so I can hop on one and instantly feel at home. I was closest when I ran a Reign X and my Glory. The HD isn't far off the RX so it's still pretty good, but if the wheel size was different I question how similar they will feel. Add in the fact that tires, and even wheels for the most part can be compatible across multiple bikes in the garage and I have to question why I would want to complicate my stable unless it's a significant improvement in performance. If my wife blows up a wheel, not unheard of, it takes 2 minutes to swap one off another bike and get her rolling again.

One other question - if there is NO ISSUES designing around a 27.5" tire as they often like to state, why the hell are they not building me a 26" bike with even shorter chainstays? SERIOUSLY, are they really leaving 0.75" of extra chain stay on the bike just because they are lazy?

Again, diminishing returns. Chain line requires some length to work in all gears, there is no way around tt, even with 1x10.

Originally Posted by phatfreeheeler

I have to admit, I'm kinda with Marshal on this one...why?

One thing I keep thinking is that I want my big bike and my little bike to feel as similar as possible so I can hop on one and instantly feel at home. I was closest when I ran a Reign X and my Glory. The HD isn't far off the RX so it's still pretty good, but if the wheel size was different I question how similar they will feel. Add in the fact that tires, and even wheels for the most part can be compatible across multiple bikes in the garage and I have to question why I would want to complicate my stable unless it's a significant improvement in performance. If my wife blows up a wheel, not unheard of, it takes 2 minutes to swap one off another bike and get her rolling again.

One other question - if there is NO ISSUES designing around a 27.5" tire as they often like to state, why the hell are they not building me a 26" bike with even shorter chainstays? SERIOUSLY, are they really leaving 0.75" of extra chain stay on the bike just because they are lazy?

This. I'll still state being very curious though. Very much disliked my couple brief forays into 29er bikes, building up my own, test riding others. As in, really, really fucking hated them. Still open to the idea, weirdly enough. If I ever ride one that blows me away, sure, I might buy. I ride front end heavy, and like a low front - never could get comfy on any of the bikes I've tried. Even a Banshee Paradox with a slammed stem, 100mm fork, wide bars and short stem - borrowed from an injured buddy for a week to check out. Felt too long and choppery (sp?) and just plain cumbersome. The dude who lent me the bike ride the same trails, pretty much the same way I do, and he fucking loves the bike. Whatever works for you.

(duck) I will say this: the majority of 29er riders I see around me can't pick decent lines or ride technical stuff worth a crap. That said, their are quite a few who kill everything on their 29ers. This just drives home to me that it really is the rider, not the bike. A good rider is going to kick ass no matter the platform.

The 650b thing seems a happy medium. Might grab a cheapy wheelset, just to try in my current bikes for shits and giggles though.

Oooh, yeah. I'd love the shorter stays for where I'm riding now. Big time agree on running the same parts in the stable. All my bikes share drive-train and brake bits. Very easy to swap a part if need be. Only one bike runs a different rear axle, and I have the parts to swap all three bike rear wheels to fit whichever frame it needs to go on. Having different rim sizes in the fleet would just fuck things up.

Industry or consumer driven, I'm not sure I care. Options are good.

Originally Posted by rideit

I won't be able to 'know' its properties unless I own one

sorry man, i miss-understood, i thought you had ridden it already and now have to own one.

650b seems like tapered headtubes, 15mm TAs, 142X12 rear ends, et al.
Yet another standard that they're going to squeeze in the middle. Not that it makes it bad. It just is.

Originally Posted by bagtagley

Except, being an early adopter to a new wheel size means less options. 29ers are beyond mainstream, yet you still only get a handful of tread options from tire manufacturers, and most of them are shitty. They're just now figuring out geometry on 29ers, so frame choice has been limited unless you like steep and looonnnnggg.

You can get just about any tread you'd like in 29er these days. I ride them almost exclusively now and love the tire options. I just picked up some Hans Dampf's and they are working out pretty well.

Hans Dampfs will be available in 650b October or so, from recent reports.

Originally Posted by marshalolson

can someone explain to me the love-affair with 650b?

je ne get it pas

People don't have enough complexity in their lives?

They want to have more incompatibility in their wheels?

Get sick of being mistaken for dwarves on clown bikes?

Having said that I'll get looped into riding one I know

Originally Posted by darkstar1974

You can get just about any tread you'd like in 29er these days. I ride them almost exclusively now and love the tire options. I just picked up some Hans Dampf's and they are working out pretty well.

You do live in fantasy land. Just to humor all of you I went looking for tires I'd buy for aggressive Utah riding to see if I could find them in 29" and I totally failed to find anything in the neighborhood. The Hans Damp isn't even on my short list with all the intermediate knobs to get in the way of maximum cornering traction.