Thread: Which aggressive, yet playful pow ski? 190cm+ - 110-120mm under foot

Hi,

I'm looking for something new for the deeper stuff. I've been riding CoreUPT Born to Drops last season, but wasn't too fond of 'em. Too big, too wide, too short. I'm 6'5", 200lbs, very good skier and ski-teacher (Austrian Landes degree). 21 y/o and in very good physical health. I was hoping to snatch a good deal at the end of the season.

I want something that I can really push in the powder/cliffs, but it has too be nimble too for trees and stuff. Landing switch in pow is not important. Decent performance in less-than-perfect conditions (chopped up/crud) is also quite important I guess.
I want to slap a pair of Dukes on 'em for some short (<2 hours) touring.

Seeing how I'm pretty big, that doesn't leave me with too many options (luckily, otherwise I never would be able to make up my mind).
So far I've been considering:
- ON3P Billy Goats 191cm
- 4FRNT EHP (from what I've read these would be really good for me) 193cm
- 4FRNT Renegade 196cm
- Moment Bibby Special 196cm (I'm afraid the 190's would be too small?) Not sure about the weird pintail design though.
- Salomon Czar 190cm - got a great deal on these (250€ including STH 14's) - but I'm not sure about it. 113 under foot. I'm a little scared they won't be as playfull or aggressive as, let's say, the EHP's. Also, they're just that little bit shorter than I would like.

Regards, Tijmen

For skiers with the Austrian Landes degree we recommend the RAX ski.
PM Rontele or Blurred for details...they are the reps.

Personally, I'd go with the 196 Renegade if I were your size. Let me know if you find a deal on them, though, as I'd like to find a pair for my bro. I wouldn't characterize them as "playful," though.

Here's my thoughts on the 186 Ren vs 191 Billy Goat: http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...05#post3596505. Keep in mind that I'm 5'11" and 165#. Personally, I LOVE the 186 Ren. But if I were 20# heavier, I wouldn't hesitate to bump it up to the 196. (whyturn on the board mentioned somewhere that he thought they were easier to ski than the 186.)

I might consider the Cease and Desist from ON3P over the 191 BG if I were your size. The boys from ON3P probably can advise about that better than I can though.

Oh, and I think splat has a pair of 196 Lhasa Pows for sale at $550. Might be something you're interested in too?

From your list, I have tried:

EHP 186
Renegade 186
Czar 190
Bibby Special 186
Bibby Pro 190

Based on your criteria:

- All are good for charging pow

- For chop, the best are the Bibby Pro and Special. They're stiff, damp and have enough shape that the edges track yet not enough that they feel grabby. EHPs have very little shape and don't track as well, though their flex is nice in chop. Renegades get bounced around in harder chop with their stiff flex and short contact length, but are nice in soft chop. I don't have much time on the Czar in chop.

- All are decently nimble in the trees, though I had a harder time on the Bibby Special to use the tails to generate short impulses. The Renegades prefer to be slid and also don't respond that well to impulses in tight spaces. The EHP and Bibby Pro are the best here due to a good effective edge and moderate flex.

Out of the skis you listed, I think you should be looking at the Bibby Pro and the EHP. If you care about carving groomers, hard snow performance and carving, get the Bibby Pro. If you like a looser feel and prefer to smear and surf, get the EHP. The 190 Bibby Pro will not be too short. To me, these 2 models are the most versatile.

Here is what I thought about the other skis you listed:

Bibby Special - unbalanced sidecut, couldn't make them carve well, but best of the bunch in chop

Czar - not much sidecut to use on hard stuff and tips are a bit disconnected due to the long, gradual rocker, but very smooth in the soft stuff

Renegade - lacks versatility due to being extremely stiff and short effective edge, not enough effective edge to make snappy turns in trees. Awesome skis for open terrain, pow and smooth surfaces, but performance on rough surfaces and in trees was a dealbreaker for me

I have no experience on Billygoats but they look appealing.

196 Lhasa Pow?

A little bit wider than what you're looking at, but the Praxis Protest is also a ski worth looking at...

loved the Blizzard bodacious. 118 UF but very playful with a bit of rocker in tail and a great carver to boot

196 Bodacious, 191 Billy Goat, 191 Fat. All great, with differences between the three. I skied the 186 Renegade, and found it lacking in stability, I would not want to ski it in bumpy, variable snow. I like to ski weight forward, and found that I would go over the handle bars on that one. I can not comment on the 196, but want to ski it.

for the other three:
196 Bodacious: Damp, predictable, kills kittens, gapers and other undesirables with impunity. Ski fast and forward or get your quads in damn good shape. Actually just get your quads in shape and send it.
191 Billy Goat: (12/13) easier to smear around than the 196, quick in tight places. More pop off of bumps and jumping off shit. Tail provides the perfect combination of sink and support for stomping the piss off of shit. More damp in the tail than the tip. If you have any specific questions about why this ski is more awesome than the definition of awesome previously included, let me know. You should buy like 6 of these!!!!!

191 Fat, lighter than the other two, by a lot, quick to move around, pushes through crap if you stay forward on it. Great ski, I want a pair with dynafits for winter/early spring touring.

Look at the HOJI for next year, too. Like the EHP, but much more nimble. Comes in 195. They are super fun, but still plenty charge-y.

Originally Posted by XavierD

196 Bodacious, 191 Billy Goat, 191 Fat. All great, with differences between the three. I skied the 186 Renegade, and found it lacking in stability, I would not want to ski it in bumpy, variable snow. I like to ski weight forward, and found that I would go over the handle bars on that one. I can not comment on the 196, but want to ski it.

for the other three:
196 Bodacious: Damp, predictable, kills kittens, gapers and other undesirables with impunity. Ski fast and forward or get your quads in damn good shape. Actually just get your quads in shape and send it.
191 Billy Goat: (12/13) easier to smear around than the 196, quick in tight places. More pop off of bumps and jumping off shit. Tail provides the perfect combination of sink and support for stomping the piss off of shit. More damp in the tail than the tip. If you have any specific questions about why this ski is more awesome than the definition of awesome previously included, let me know. You should buy like 6 of these!!!!!

191 Fat, lighter than the other two, by a lot, quick to move around, pushes through crap if you stay forward on it. Great ski, I want a pair with dynafits for winter/early spring touring.

Two comments, since I skied with XavierD and it was my Rens and Fats he's talking about (conversely, it was his 191 BGs I borrowed):

1) The Renegades have a very unique balance associated with them. They require a very neutral stance. I hated them the first run I took on it, and XavierD only got one total. And I was used to full R/R, but these have learning curve beyond any other ski I've been on. Just a point to keep in mind. (I want more time on your 191 BGs too! You gonna be around next winter?!)
2) I would definitely opt for the 196 if I were XavierD's weight.
3) The 191 Fat I have is the all-carbon. Pat told me the hybrids are better at pushing through chop.

But you're certainly welcome to your opinion, that's just my reasoning for our vastly different experience when it comes to the Renegades. Or maybe I'm just rationalizing my lack of skill...

191 wren. when i think charging pow, with big turns and stomping in one direction, that's what i think of.

just slip the tails in the trees and build up those leg muscles.

Demoed the 196 Renegade in mid-April, first time on alpine gear in 16 or so years. Had the full range of mixed conditions with set up shit frontside and heavy/dense snow backside and shaded zones. I didn't find too much of a learning curve, thought they skied great everywhere except the coral that was found frontside during the morning hours. They were super grabby/tracky in these conditions, especially for a reverse cambered ski. These are powerful skis with great energy transmission to the edge, as such I think these skis need a little special consideration when tuning, meaning that I don't think you want them completely flat. Slight convexity.

A little wider than you are looking for and often overlooked are Bluehouse Shoots. Way more versatile than their size would suggest. Kinda heavy and not really "playful"( I grew up on skinny skis, so I actually find them playful). Never had a problem manuevering trees. Kinda a fat , heavy EHP. And can be purchased now for $250

G3 Highball- have not skied this ski. Have hand flexed it though and its stiff. Cannot quit thinking about this ski as my everyday ski and the SweetRise camber profile looked $$$ to me. Been trying to dial in my perfect everyday ski and I think this is as close as I have found(in theory). Next year I believe they have a bigger version called the Empire.

EHP

So... ski's to add to the list:

191 Wren
190 Bibby Pro
196 Lhasa Pow's
191 Fat's

As much as the PMGear appeals to me, it's pretty pricey and out of my budget really.

The main thing I'm ALWAYS concerned about when buying ski's is the length. Me being 6'5" and 200lbs, I need a lot of ski. I'm just really afraid 190's will be too short (stupidly enough I feel just fine about 193's...). Is 190 on the short side or should I get the sand out of my vag? I've heard nothing but amazing things about the 190 Bibby Pro's, but it seems a little short.

Any of you guys (or gals) happen to have a ski for sale that fits my description? I think in the end it won't really matter much and after a few runs I will be hooked on any ski, because it will be a step up from my Born to Drops for sure.

I love my 190 Bibbys in typical Austrian conditions. Awesome skis. I am 5 foot 9 and around 75kg though, and they feel spot on size wise... So you probably have valid concerns. Whereabouts in Austria do you ski, could possibly let you have a go next winter, unless you want to buy before then.

Originally Posted by TijmenDal

So... ski's to add to the list:

191 Wren
190 Bibby Pro
196 Lhasa Pow's
191 Fat's

As much as the PMGear appeals to me, it's pretty pricey and out of my budget really.

The main thing I'm ALWAYS concerned about when buying ski's is the length. Me being 6'5" and 200lbs, I need a lot of ski. I'm just really afraid 190's will be too short (stupidly enough I feel just fine about 193's...). Is 190 on the short side or should I get the sand out of my vag? I've heard nothing but amazing things about the 190 Bibby Pro's, but it seems a little short.

Any of you guys (or gals) happen to have a ski for sale that fits my description? I think in the end it won't really matter much and after a few runs I will be hooked on any ski, because it will be a step up from my Born to Drops for sure.

I would add the 194 Fat-ypus D-Sender Rocker to your list. At 144/112/130 it's not a pure floater, but it does very well in all conditions. Stiff, with the ability to charge, yet it remains fairly forgiving and playful. I've got a 6'6" buddy that sold his 195 Super 7s for this ski and is much happier. You can currently buy them it for $450, but it should be on sale very soon for $290 as Fat-ypus is running a special sale on a different model every two weeks.

http://www.fat-ypus.com/home/d-sender.php

Originally Posted by coldwater

I love my 190 Bibbys in typical Austrian conditions. Awesome skis. I am 5 foot 9 and around 75kg though, and they feel spot on size wise... So you probably have valid concerns. Whereabouts in Austria do you ski, could possibly let you have a go next winter, unless you want to buy before then.

This summer I'm moving to the States to study abroad there for a year in Bozeman. I don't really care when I get my hands on a pair of new powder sticks, as long as it's before october/november next fall. I would love to try your Bibby's out, but I'm afraid it won't really be possible...

Originally Posted by cmsummit

I would add the 194 Fat-ypus D-Sender Rocker to your list. At 144/112/130 it's not a pure floater, but it does very well in all conditions. Stiff, with the ability to charge, yet it remains fairly forgiving and playful. I've got a 6'6" buddy that sold his 195 Super 7s for this ski and is much happier. You can currently buy them it for $450, but it should be on sale very soon for $290 as Fat-ypus is running a special sale on a different model every two weeks.

http://www.fat-ypus.com/home/d-sender.php

Thanks for the heads up! For 290$ it will be a pretty easy decision I think. Sounds awesome!

Originally Posted by My Pet Powder Goat

loved the Blizzard bodacious. 118 UF but very playful with a bit of rocker in tail and a great carver to boot

This would be one of the skis I'd mention as well.

Originally Posted by grskier

This would be one of the skis I'd mention as well.

Heard it's a BEAST and that even Arne himself didn't ride this when he was just having mellow day. They don't look easy to throw around really...

worth looking into a DPS Lotus 120 as well.

crazy stable, crazy maneuverable.

Another Vote for PM gear, they have 3 skis that would probably make you happy.

If there is a deal out there to get em for less than 800$ its a no brainer

DPS Lotus 120 in a 200. Best ski evar.

Originally Posted by TijmenDal

Heard it's a BEAST and that even Arne himself didn't ride this when he was just having mellow day. They don't look easy to throw around really...

the Bodacious have quit a bit of tip and tail rocker and a nice medium flex that lets you push on it and tighten up the radius, yet hold a great edge for a fat ski all making it very playful and not nearly as unwielding as they look.

It seems like a lot of the suggestions for a "playful" powder ski here have been long radius suggestions and the "ski de jours" on TGR over the last couple years, but I wouldn't consider a long radius ski playful, cuz they usually are not very fun on groomers and chop

Originally Posted by My Pet Powder Goat

the Bodacious have quit a bit of tip and tail rocker and a nice medium flex that lets you push on it and tighten up the radius, yet hold a great edge for a fat ski all making it very playful and not nearly as unwielding as they look.

It seems like a lot of the suggestions for a "playful" powder ski here have been long radius suggestions and the "ski de jours" on TGR over the last couple years, but I wouldn't consider a long radius ski playful, cuz they usually are not very fun on groomers and chop

My thoughts exactly, seems like people have a strange definition of "playful" .

With the right technique and strong enough legs, you can make most 30m+ radius stiff ski plenty playful.

Originally Posted by My Pet Powder Goat

the Bodacious have quit a bit of tip and tail rocker and a nice medium flex that lets you push on it and tighten up the radius, yet hold a great edge for a fat ski all making it very playful and not nearly as unwielding as they look.

It seems like a lot of the suggestions for a "playful" powder ski here have been long radius suggestions and the "ski de jours" on TGR over the last couple years, but I wouldn't consider a long radius ski playful, cuz they usually are not very fun on groomers and chop

there were other criteria than playful, and I think some (myself included) gravitated towards those...