Thread: La Sportiva / ATK RT Touring Binding: tips, tricks, feedback, etc.?

Originally Posted by PNWbrit

Anyone tried these? Or know of an existing thread. Interesting.

The former (B&D), no, but looks pretty straightforward.

The latter (LDPE make yer own), yes, with all sorts of bindings (both Dynafit and alpine downhill). The only time-consuming part is trying to trim it down (both to save weight and make it look professional) along with figuring out how many "speed" holes you can get away with drilling on the interior w/o comprising key support areas. And be sure to "invest" in a ~$10 Harbor Freight digital caliper for measuring screws. (Note that if you're scrambling to find those small-head Dynafit-style screws, you really need them only for front center screw, as pretty much any style will work for the back four, although remember that head style affects penetration ... and yes, I do realize the double entendres in all of the preceding!)

One more option: use one of those after-market swap plates but only on the toes (the use inserts on the heels for swapping). This might be the best option for the Vertical ST/FT, since the screws are already really long, and using a shim with the screws going through the binding, original base plate, and add'l shim could make for some potentially troublesome sheering forces.

Originally Posted by PNWbrit

Anyone tried these? Or know of an existing thread. Interesting.

Not sure if you're talking the B&D ones or the LDPE sheets... probably the former, but FWIW I've made my own out of HDPE (cutting board) stock. Easy enough to do with jondrums' templates, and cheaper than B&D for sure. I just used the full 1 cm, but that was for a pair of Plum Guides. I'm using them with inserts, so I just added 10 mm to jon's reported screw lengths and bought new M5 screws at the local hardware store.

Originally Posted by PNWbrit

Anyone tried these? Or know of an existing thread. Interesting.

I'm using the toe unit (only) of the B&D tele insert-to-Dynafit adapter plate, which reduced the Vertical ramp delta 6mm or so. It also allows a field change with machine screws.

Interesting. Thanks guys. just ordered some verticals to go on new Voile drifters and didn't realize that they had even more ramp than comforts I normally use.

One drawback of using the dynaduke plates the past few seasons is that it really shows up the dynas ramp angle when you switch back and forward.

Auvgeek - longer M5 screw? So you're putting HDPE on top of the dynaduke toe?? I might try that on sksi I already have plated.

Jonathan - Using just the Dynaduke toe certainly seems like an easy off the shelf answer. Although the cutting board could be neater/less cobbled together looking agree longer screws a concern though.

Big Steve - Is that working ok for you? You like the way it skis?

Originally Posted by PNWbrit

just ordered some verticals to go on new Voile drifters and didn't realize that they had even more ramp than comforts I normally use.

Per my measurement, Comfort and Vertical ST/FT ramp delta are the same.

Originally Posted by PNWbrit

Big Steve - Is that working ok for you? You like the way it skis?

Yes. Big improvement over stock. FTR, I have done this to two pairs of skis, with Comforts and with FTs. I have classic Speeds w/stock ramp delta on my third touring rig.

Originally Posted by PNWbrit

One drawback of using the dynaduke plates the past few seasons is that it really shows up the dynas ramp angle when you switch back and forward.

Auvgeek - longer M5 screw? So you're putting HDPE on top of the dynaduke toe?? I might try that on sksi I already have plated.

Nah, I'm using them with the inserts, not a plate. Personally, I wouldn't shim on top of the plate because it puts you at a pretty high stack height. Instead, I'd hardmount just the toe plate and put the dynafit heel and the dynaduke heel plate on inserts. Then your dynafit toeplate acts like the shim when you're on dynafits. Then again, if you're using the Dukes on top of a 7mm plate, you're probably not too concerned about stack height...

Edit: I'm using these with plum guides, so Jonathan's issue of long screws doesn't apply. I guess that's the crux of the issue, and the reason you were asking, so my response isn't very helpful.

Originally Posted by auvgeek

Nah, I'm using them with the inserts, not a plate. Personally, I wouldn't shim on top of the plate because it puts you at a pretty high stack height. Instead, I'd hardmount just the toe plate and put the dynafit heel and the dynaduke heel plate on inserts. Then your dynafit toeplate acts like the shim when you're on dynafits. Then again, if you're using the Dukes on top of a 7mm plate, you're probably not too concerned about stack height...

Edit: I'm using these with plum guides, so Jonathan's issue of long screws doesn't apply. I guess that's the crux of the issue, and the reason you were asking, so my response isn't very helpful.

Understand now. I have a set of dynaduke plates I'll probably use the toes from and just mount the heel with regular binding screws. Any suggestions how you best combine dyanduke template and regular dynafit heel mount? Just combine paper templates on boot center?

That would work probably fine.

If you're worried about it, here's how I did mine (little anal, but it works):

Mount the toes first with the dynaduke template and align/tape the paper template for the dynafit heel. Then screw the dynafit toe in the plate, click your boot into the toe and put the pins of the heel in the heel fittings. Then see how the heel aligns with the paper template. Mine didn't align quite right, so I moved the template slightly before punching. Then, as I screwed the heel in, I made sure the boot was coming down perfectly on the pins. Some of the screws were slightly angled, but it was fine...even when I drilled them out for inserts, everything still lined up.

However, I was using a homemade HDPE adapter toe plate (adapts FKS to plum toes), not a perfectly-machined plate from jondrums'. So I was worried that it wouldn't be perfectly aligned. Also, this was my first tech mount, so I'm not as comfortable as Big Steve or others. However, it works fine with no prerelease, and I would probably do it again this way for the next tech mount. Shoot me a PM if you want a hand with it, though I don't claim to be expert.

Just to be clear, here's where I got the idea: http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...-to-Dynafit-to. I made one with t-nuts for FKS/Plum toe adaptor and one just as a shim for the toe.

Thanks for the link

Are you guys retaining the Dynafit plastic base plate under the toe?

Not like I'll use ski crampons on the drifters but the toe latch is concerning. http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...71#post3393571

Originally Posted by PNWbrit

Are you guys retaining the Dynafit plastic base plate under the toe?

Yes, I do. 10%groomed is not, and I wonder if the loss of the bump/lever cam (aka toe latch) is working out for him. As you know, the Dynafit toe plate has voids, so the shim needs to span the entire stock plate. Yeah, if you don't plan to use Dynafit or B&D crampons, you can whack off the rear part of the plate.

BTW, where did you buy Verticals? My tele-convert bud is looking to get Dynafitted.

Telemark pyrenee had great deal.

I guess with dynaduke toe I can go either. Will try bench testing tour latch on a ski I have plates on already.

Finally got some more vertical & mileage on the bindings:
http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...Adams-amp-Hood

No prereleases in all sorts of varied conditions (although I have yet to ski them in nasty sastrugi). But no opportunities to determine how well they release in a fall.

A wee bit of a pain to reach down for a 180-degree rotation when switching between the "half-step" heel elevator versus the standard full-step elevator.
But that is very rare anyway, since I love the "half-step" so much for touring. I've gotten used to that for in-bounds skinning (both on my full-on race setup, as well as my old Duo Sint Aero skis that have race heels and standard toes). And for "real" backcountry skiing, I also love it now too. For almost all of the skinning I did on this trip, I just put the binding into the half-step position and just kept it there. I never used the "flat" position (since we didn't have any extended truly flat terrain) and I rarely used the full-step position.
Overall, although the reduced weight of these bindings is obviously an advantage, I think the lower elevator rivals it for efficiency gains. Nice to see that Dynafit has that feature too in it Speed Superlight. (I wonder if the Vertical ST could be modified to have the same half-step that was previously featured on the discontinued Vertical Race Ti and Vertical Lite?)

I've got a noob question about the plastic "heel lifters" that are default....can u really use these as lifters during climbing or are they designed to only make hand rotation easier. I wouldnt think so but they look pretty weak to kick turn on etc.

I think it's the other way around: they're designed as a higher heel lifter position (since otherwise you're in the "race"-style "half-step" all the time, which is kind of lacking for steeper-then-optimal skin tracks), but any benefit for enhanced ease of hand rotation is just coincidental.
As for kick turning, I think that places far less stress on the binding than just an ordinary stride.

Got in another three outings on my RT setup.

At just under 71,000' vertical, they accounted for less than 1/5th of my touring this season, so not a real test of their durability, but I feel like they've been through a full range of conditions now.

With a lateral release setting of 7, the heel can sometimes be difficult to turn among different climbing positions if not applying a purely rotational. But once I do apply a purely rotational force, it's no longer difficult at all.
Once during a tricky traverse, I wanted to adjust the heel elevator (so as to have differential uphill vs downhill ski heights). I did not want to reach down to my ski, and the heel elevator is not really amenable to ski pole tip manipulation. But it was easy to "kick" the ski so as to make the heel unit come up to my hand, where I could easily rotate it.

I would have thought that I would miss the higher heel elevator position of a more traditional/typical Dynafit or other "Tech"-style binding, but my climbing ability hasn't been hampered at all by that, and I absolutely love the "half-step" race-style position.
Although the binding has a purely "flat" position, so far I've bothered to use it only once (across the Adams crater, heading toward the summit), since I love the half-step position so much even for very low-angle skinning.

I had the "opportunity" to ski some horribly uneven "snow" (Adams summit) and some impressively refrozen smooth snow (top of the Palmer, well before down), so lots of decambering/recambering for the former, and lots of chatter for the latter -- no prerelease.

Overall, I've been very pleased with how they perform. Granted, the weight savings are pretty trivial (and static/non-lifted weight at that) compared to a nearly two-decade-old Dynafit IV/Tech/Classic/Speed, but I really love the half-step position for skinning efficiency. The Dynafit Speed Superlight is really the only direct competitor, but I don't have any experience with it.

We had very little snow here in the Northeast last season, but I put about a dozen days on lift-service terrain and about eight days of touring on the RT's. So far, these bindings have been really impressive. The only complaint I have is that on the last day of the season, I took a crash bombing down some steeps at a resort and after the right ski released, my cable leash somehow pulled hard enough on the toe locking bar and snapped it in half in stead of releasing from my boot. I called LS and they warrantied it and sent me a brand new pair. If I spend as much time at the resort with these this year, I'll be putting the brakes on my setup. As far as touring goes, I'm a tele-convert and really appreciate the ease and efficiency in touring. Hopefully we'll get more snow this year so that I can put these guys to good use.

Whoah, weird breakage for sure! Although where exactly do you attach your leash? I loop mine through that narrow lateral hole at the very end of the lever. Seems like you did the same?
(I'm also surprised that I don't have the only pair in the Northeast...)

Anyone know what happened to the ATKRace.com website?
Doesn't even show up in Google searches now.

Here it is again:
http://www.atkrace.it
Lots of new accessories for the RT binding, including many more options for fore/aft adjustment plates (although I recall seeing those in the spring?), plus flip-style heel elevator (a la Dynafit Radical and that Click-Clack guy).

Originally Posted by indyjones

I've got a noob question about the plastic "heel lifters" that are default....can u really use these as lifters during climbing or are they designed to only make hand rotation easier. I wouldnt think so but they look pretty weak to kick turn on etc.

A metal version is now available, so looks like you weren't the only one with that concern.
(Weight penalty of 10 grams per pair, oh the horror!)

The plates to allow +/- 1.4cm are interesting. Multiple mounts on one ski with a superlight tech binding...hmmm.

Is there anyone, who has experience with the "atk rt ski-brake"? Wonder how to mount it while using the freeride-plates.

Haven't even touched the brake but it does look a bit flimsy.

Does anyone have a line on discounted pairs of these? I wanted one and had a deal lined up but, as usual, waited too long and it's gone.

I would really like to mount these bindings on ATK's R03 "Free-Ride" Plate, as well as slap this AL04 Heel Cover on the rear piece...unfortunately with shipping from Italy and US to Euro conversion these parts are gonna be way more expensive than I was hoping for.

If anyone can help me find a deal on these accessories (or maybe knows of a working discount code for this website) it would be GREATLY appreciated.

Thanks so much

You should save about 20% if they calculate correctly and take off the VAT. This should make the Euro to USD conversion close to a wash.