Thread: La Sportiva / ATK RT Touring Binding: tips, tricks, feedback, etc.?

I continue to be surprised at how little attention these bindings receive, at least on the internet.
Maybe this is just a product of the limited U.S. distribution and the high retail price, but La Sportiva's sponsored athletes appear to be using this on their 105mm Hi5 and 89mm GT skis, which is more girth than I would have expected for such a binding, and I haven't heard of any problems with such setups.
I've used mine for only three outings so far, paired with the kind of ski I would have expected this binding to be limited to (Hagan X-Ultra). My only quibble of sorts is that originally I set the tour mode lever at 5, but I think that is so loose that it might have a tendency not to stay put, so I might increase it a bit.

And here's some feedback from another thread:

Originally Posted by JonnyMo

I have the ATK RT and mounted them on the DPS 112RP pure carbon ski.

I've had two problems with the binding. First the plastic heel lift can sometimes rotate while downhill skiing. I think my boots or skis just knock it out of place. No problem putting it back.

The other issue is related to the first. At the end of one day downhill skiing steeps and powder, I noticed that one of the heel pins was loose. Also, the plastic heel lifter had moved.

I had no problems skiing down and at home I took the heel apart, which was very easy and only a 1 beer project. It looked like one of the pins had popped out of place, so I just put it back and reassembled it all. Nothing broken. And an easy field repair IF you carried an itsy bitsy torx bit.

I think the screw that hold the plastic heel lifter on, and doubles as the forward release adjustment, had backed out a bit, causing the pin to come out of place. So far no more problems. I'm just keeping a better eye on that adjustment screw. Probably time for some thread lock.

Cheers,
Jon

Also, while hanging out in the Hyak parking lot last month, I was told (by a UW meteorology student -- whose name of course I now can't remember...), that after lots (and lots) of lift-served skiing (w/ girlfriend) on some fairly wide ski, the toe pincers started to loosen up in the wings/arms. But La Sportiva warranteed them.

Anyone else?

Oh yeah, and some basic specs for those wondering what this is all about...

The RT is made by ATK Race but rebranded and distributed in North America (and only in North America) by La Sportiva N.A. Inc. (which will *not* service or warranty the ATK-branded RT).

With the optional heel elevator extension, actual total weight per pair (including mounting screws) is only ~13.5 ounces.
Add on around a couple ounces per pair (plus another 4mm of delta, which will still make the binding flatter than the Dynafit Speed/Classic) for the plate to allow fore-aft adjustment.

A very lightweight and innovative toe-mounted brake is also available, in three different sizes -- I doubt that many of these are in use, given that a binding like this is hardly appealing to the brake crowd.

The toe unit is pretty similar to four-hole rando race bindings with integrated crampon holder, which is compatible with crampons from Dynafit, B&D, and ATK (once again resold by La Sportiva here).
But for the toe unit toe lever, instead of being all-or-nothing like the Plum Guide, or multiple yet uncalibrated positions like Dynafit, the lever *position* is all-or-nothing yet its tension is adjustable via a clever little screw. Unfortunately the screw has DIN-like numbers attached to the various positions, which is misleading if anyone puts the toe lever into tour mode while skiing.

The heel unit like all "Tech" bindings has the usual independently adjustable lateral and forward release functions, but the mechanics seem to be quite a bit different than a traditional Dynafit heel. It's also absurdly small -- you can't appreciate just how small from the web pics.
With the optional heel elevator extension, the first position is a kind of "half-step" (as Dynafit once called it on some since-discontinued models) that is pretty much the same as typical rando race bindings. This position is perfect for the vast majority of skinning. And if you need more elevator than that, then your skin track is too steep to be efficient. However, since ski mountaineering terrain often doesn't offer the choice of a perfectly angled skin track, the optional heel elevator extension makes a big difference in those situations, offering around 34mm heel>toe skinning delta, as compared to the 24/51 positions in the IV/Tech/Classic/Speed (w/o the little spacers installed) and 30/57 in the Vertical ST/FT.

Overall, with a weight just barely over typical rando race bindings, yet offering adjustable release and a higher heel elevator position, the only direct competition is from the aptly named Dynafit Superlite. The only significant difference between the two bindings are that the Superlite has a single adjustment for both lateral and forward release, and it lacks a "flat" skinning position. However, having toured on lots of nearly flat terrain with my Plum 135 race bindings, with the "half-step" position and massive rearward upper cuff articulation in the TLT5, I don't think this is a non-negligible drawback unless the setup were intended for real nordic touring. (And note that the "flat" position in the RT and in rando race bindings is really a slightly negative position, so its only use is when the terrain is truly flat for extended periods.)

I'm curious to see the remarks of real world testers. Cool looking binding.

As we've discussed before, having a flat touring mode is a matter of personal preference and varies from tour to tour. I wouldn't buy a binding without a flat tour mode, at least not a binding I'd use for spring touring, when we often encounter long flat sections.

But have you tried the "half-step" positions of race bindings?
(Or on the old discontinued Dynafit bindings?)
It's way different then when you briefly continue skinning on some flat stretches with a regular Tech binding in the lower of the two positions.

Yes, I've tried them. I want a flat touring mode.

I just got a pair. They aren't mounted yet, but will be by the end of the week. This is my first foray into tech bindings as I'm building a superlight spring setup of La Sportiva RT bindings, Dynafit TLT5 boots, and Ski Logik Pitons (95mm underfoot, 2800g/pair). There's still a bit of snow up in Idaho so hopefully I'll be testing them soon on some steep lines. I'll check back in...

Originally Posted by Jonathan S.

Anyone else?

Give Silas a call, he probably has as many days on them as anyone.

I have them. Mounted on DPS 112RP (190cm) Didn't use them a ton, as I didn't get out as much last season as I would have liked. So far, after 4-5 tour days and a day in-bounds, I'm pretty pleased. Good retention, easy to use. My only complaint is that the plastic add-on thingie on top of the heel piece that you stick your ski pole into to help you turn the rear binding into the different modes isn't particularly burly. It tends to deform and turn when you torque on it.

Originally Posted by Powdurr

This is my first foray into tech bindings as I'm building a superlight spring setup of La Sportiva RT bindings, Dynafit TLT5 boots, and Ski Logik Pitons (95mm underfoot, 2800g/pair).

Whoah, nice -- quite the foray into your first "Tech" setup!

Originally Posted by gregL

Give Silas a call, he probably has as many days on them as anyone.

But he broke the skis!
(Still so proud of them that he brought them along last month just to show them to me.)
Silas is not much of a binding tester though, since he still gets along just fine on those really old Dynafit bindings with the sideways toe lever throw, and the heel unit forward release settings that are adjusted by swapping into different U springs/prongs/pins ... although then again, the various rando race bindings are kind of a throwback to those earlier Dynafit models.)

Originally Posted by Kai

My only complaint is that the plastic add-on thingie on top of the heel piece that you stick your ski pole into to help you turn the rear binding into the different modes isn't particularly burly. It tends to deform and turn when you torque on it.

I think the consensus is that although that heel elevator extension *can* be used for rotating the heel unit with a ski pole tip, even at best it's kind of tough to use, so the binding is really set up to be rotated by hand. (That would definitely be a drawback for those who like to use the pole rotation.) Given the half-step position though, I hardly ever change positions . . . although when I do go from half-step to full-step, it requires a 180-degree rotation of the heel piece. (Okay, so that only takes an extra split second as opposed to a 90-degree rotation...)

Originally Posted by Jonathan S.

But he broke the skis!

The K Wild aka Ky Jelly skis?

Originally Posted by Big Steve

The K Wild aka Ky Jelly skis?

Yes -- right behind the heel unit, like how rando race skis often break.
He says it was his fault for sitting back too much -- even calls them the "punisher" b/c they punish bad technique in that regard.

Got a pair, only got a few days on them this year, but they seem to ski pretty well
and work like they should. I mounted them with the adjustable heel unit plate due to my ski boot whoring ways.

Originally Posted by Jonathan S.

Yes -- right behind the heel unit, like how rando race skis often break.

Not the fault of the binding (or the ski tech) I'd wager . . . he still put in quite a few days on the RT, including several at the ski area.

Got a pair last winter and love 'em. I got them strictly for a rando/Grand Traverse setup and they were perfect for that.

I'm 200+ lbs.
6'4''
BSL: 334mm

Had them mounted on Some skinny/soft Ski Trab Skis and used them with Scarpa F1s.

I'm used to using Dynafit Verticals, so it took some time getting used to rotating the heel piece by hand. Really not a big deal; you get used to it, and develop some techniques to do it quickly and efficiently (e.g. Right hand adjusting Left Binding, Left hand adjusting Right Binding).

I really like being able to adjust the tension on the toe piece while in tour mode. I brought it all the way up to 10, as I never want to come out of my binding when I'm touring. It's good to know that this setting is always the same on both feet instead of simply assuming the toes are locked out after 3 or 4 "clicks" that you might get with the Dynafit toe piece.

For heel height, I really want, need, and love having my heel flat. It makes gliding easer on the flats, and is more comfortable on those long, flat tours (like much of the Grand Traverse). It's true you have to rotate the heel 180 degrees to go from the middle to the highest climbing position, but again, not a big deal as you get used to it.

(As an aside, I didn't have to use any bellow "shims" with this binding and my F1s. I can elaborate if need be.)

I want to get this binding with some 110mm waisted skis and some Maestrale RS boot this next winter. Definitely sold on 'em.

Never got my new sticks from Ski Logik in time to ski this week, so I ended up mounting my RT's on my heavy ass Line Blends. Not the best test of what was supposed to be an ultralight setup...

I will ski them later this weekend and report back. So far, they feel SOLID. With the toe locked, there is no way you are coming out of these, and that's how I intend to ski them. Really like the feel of the all metal design. I used a Dynafit jig to mount the toes and a combination of the included metal "jig" and just clicking the boot in and eyeing out where the heel should go to mount the heels.

Got to test these out yesterday on 8 inches of blower powder...not exactly typical Idaho summer ski conditions! As I have never used a tech binding before...wow! They tour great...its so nice to not be lifting up an entire binding on each step. I didn't even try moving the heel lifter positions with my pole, but I think it could work. I just did it by hand which is a little annoying especially when they are set to 10. Not a big deal either way.

I skied them locked down and they felt secure and I had no issues. I was actually a little nervous going through some weird gunky snow down low knowing they were locked. I will eventually try them not in locked mode but yesterday's descent wasn't something I wanted to risk losing a ski on...

Overall the bindings felt great and seem very durable. I'll hopefully get to use them a bit more this summer and I'll see how they hold up. The light weight is awesome. These are one of the lightest adjustable tech bindings out there and they seem as durable if not more so than any of the competitors, especially Dynafits which seem to have wayyy too much plastic.



The TLT5 Performance boots were another story altogether...they tour great as well, but dropping into a steep face having never had skied them before and coming from race boots and 10-flex tongues on my Full Tilts was terrifying. Got used to them after about 10 turns but I guess was expecting them to feel slightly more substantial. Definitely ditching the stocks liners and putting in intuition powerwraps or plug liners even if that means sacrificing weight and touring performance. Also the forward lean is definitely too much and I will be replacing the part to the new one with less forward lean as soon as I can. The boots felt nice and substantial when flexed into the tongue skiing them, there was no sloppiness there, but when trying to lean back to get your tips up over weird snow, obstacles, or whatever, felt sketchy. Way too much forward lean, not enough support from the liner. I guess I should leave this out of the RT thread and get it into the TLT5 thread. Sorry for going on a tangent...

Originally Posted by Powdurr

TLT5 Performance boots . . . the forward lean is definitely too much. . . .

Federico, are you listening?

Originally Posted by Powdurr

when trying to lean back to get your tips up over weird snow, obstacles, or whatever, felt sketchy. Way too much forward lean, not enough support from the liner. I guess I should leave this out of the RT thread and get it into the TLT5 thread. Sorry for going on a tangent...

What's the ramp angle on this binder? (Quick google search yielded nothing, but I wasn't super thorough.) When I switched to a tech set up, I struggled with fwd lean issues that were partially exacerbated by the ramp angle (not 100% the cause, just a factor). If you're still feeling the funkiness after lessening the fwd lean, maybe try shimming the toepiece. FWIW, I never skied the TLT5, but the fwd lean does seem extreme. (Actually bought a used pair, but they ended up being too big so I never skied in them.)

Thanks for your thoughts on the TLT 5 relating to the other boots you ski. (I use 10-flex Full Tilts, too).

Originally Posted by auvgeek

What's the ramp angle on this binder?

Depends if you use the adjustable heel track (of course, I don't know what the number is either with or without).

With the caveat that shimming a Tech-style toe to reduce heel>toe delta is pretty easy (either by swapping in a Dynafit Vertical ST plate on a Speed, swapping in a Radical ST plate on a Speed Radical, buying the B&D plate, or making your own shims out of LDPE sheets), although you do have to find longer screws ... the differentials are as follows.
(Measured from center of toe pincers and center of heel pins to top of ski. Actual stand height and imparted "delta" will depend upon boot sole thickness, rocker, and length. Note that this measure is not at all comparable with delta measurements for non-Tech bindings.)

ATK/Sportiva RT = 2mm (similar to rando race bindings), or 7mm w/ adjustment plate
Dynafit Speed/Classic/Tech/IV = 13mm
Vertical ST/FT = 17mm
Radical = I keep forgetting to measure whenever one of them comes by here...
G3 = 11mm
Plum Guide = 15

Originally Posted by Bean

Depends if you use the adjustable heel track (of course, I don't know what the number is either with or without).

Yup, that's the only useful thing google turned up...in a wildsnow post, of course.

Originally Posted by Jonathan S.

the differentials are as follows.
(Measured from center of toe pincers and center of heel pins to top of ski. Actual stand height and imparted "delta" will depend upon boot sole thickness, rocker, and length. Note that this measure is not at all comparable with delta measurements for non-Tech bindings.)

ATK/Sportiva RT = 2mm (similar to rando race bindings), or 7mm w/ adjustment plate
Dynafit Speed/Classic/Tech/IV = 13mm
Vertical ST/FT = 17mm
Radical = I keep forgetting to measure whenever one of them comes by here...
G3 = 11mm
Plum Guide = 15

Very useful!!! Thanks! You should throw a table of these up on wildsnow...

So I guess it doesn't matter that much for the Sportiva RT. I've only used Vertical FT or Plum Guide, which have much more radical ramp angles.

Originally Posted by auvgeek

Very useful!!! Thanks! You should throw a table of these up on wildsnow...

An older version of my Tech table is up there, but I haven't updated it since Lou fired me (to the extent a volunteer can be fired) after I sent him a few emails complaining about repeated attacks from one commenter upon my qualifications and integrity regarding a preview snippet I posted from my then-upcoming article in the American Avalanche Association's The Avalanche Review on airbag pack survival statistics.

Originally Posted by Jonathan S.

buying the B&D plate, or making your own shims out of LDPE sheets)

Anyone tried these? Or know of an existing thread. Interesting.

Wow, I had no idea the Verticals were so steep.

I've definitely been feeling the ramp on my Plum Guides and think I will shim them for next season. It get's bad in the spring when the snow is sticky and throwing you forward. You're already started on your toes a little. Also is manked up powder.