sissy sticks

[cegli]

Twin tips on a traverse ski? Why?

I was thinking of them as dual purpose traverse skis and (more importantly) spring skis for quick laps through easy terrain. In easy spring terrain I mostly do runs with little bonks off trees, switch spins off rollers, etc., so I'd love if they could do both.

Also, I figured there wouldn't be too many downsides. They're worse for kickturns, and you lose a couple cm of edge, but that's a reasonable trade-off for me at least.

Say hello to [URL="http://www.telemark-pyrenees.com/en/movementxseriesbond1213-p-75566.html"]your new girlfriend:

Thanks Jonathan, I actually looked at those for a while. Looks pretty darn good.

Logic-X: 127-88-115 (176cm) at 1100g
Logic : 127-88-115 (176cm) at 1300g
Bond : 120-84-109 (177cm) at 1400g

I've just been dreaming of the logic-x weight and extra width with the bond profile. Maybe they'll make it next year!

[GeezerSteve]

. . . runs with little bonks off trees, switch spins off rollers, etc., so I'd love if they could do both.

I'd advise against such antics when you are on a traverse, a day or more from civilization and wearing a full pack. Did you read OP's opening thread? He's looking for a traverse/distance ski.

Also, I figured there wouldn't be too many downsides. They're worse for kickturns, and you lose a couple cm of edge, but that's a reasonable trade-off for me at least.

The more significant disadvantage is that one cannot build a proper anchor with twin tips.

[cegli]

I'd advise against such antics when you are on a traverse, a day or more from civilization and wearing a full pack. Did you read OP's opening thread? He's looking for a traverse/distance ski.

The more significant disadvantage is that one cannot build a proper anchor with twin tips.

Yes, I understand that these things wouldn't be in the OPs requirements. I didn't suggest that would be the ski he would want. I was just musing on what I would like in a super-light ski: A ski that could be used for both long distance traverses with no "antics", or one that could be used for a quick morning on an easy mountain to take a few easy laps in the sun (antics included).

I don't do anything extreme enough to require an anchor, so it's not a drawback for me personally. Sounds like it would be a drawback for you though.

[turnfarmer]

The BondX seems like a great ski to me, but it's even hard to find any info on the Bond.
Would love to see feed back on either if anyone knows of any reviews or has skied either.
Seems perfect for the OP's mission.

[Scotsman50]

The more significant disadvantage is that one cannot build a proper anchor with twin tips.

Not totally correct..... the best anchor you can make with skis is to bury them in a Ttrench like a deadman with a cordelette in a slot leading from them....very strong....twin tips do not prevent this. They do prevent you from making a quick anchor by sticking your tail into the snow and making some sort of H or X anchor or even a sitting belay anchor...but my experience those type of anchors are not as strong and in a lot of cases psychological anchors at best....which can still be helpful.

[grinch]

The BondX seems like a great ski to me, but it's even hard to find any info on the Bond.
Would love to see feed back on either if anyone knows of any reviews or has skied either.
Seems perfect for the OP's mission.

i think it could be the same ski as the new sportiva lo5. same factory, dims. rocker. possibly a good choice

[GeezerSteve]

Not totally correct..... the best anchor you can make with skis is to bury them in a Ttrench like a deadman with a cordelette in a slot leading from them....very strong....twin tips do not prevent this. They do prevent you from making a quick anchor by sticking your tail into the snow and making some sort of H or X anchor or even a sitting belay anchor...but my experience those type of anchors are not as strong and in a lot of cases psychological anchors at best....which can still be helpful.

Yeah yeah, I know about deadman anchors. You know I was talking about a picket-style anchor, which are usually adequate in post-consolidation spring snow. I've rapped my fat ass into a crevasse with an two-ski X-picket anchor. OP is looking for a spring traverse ski.

[Scotsman50]

Yeah yeah, I know about deadman anchors. You know I was talking about a picket-style anchor, which are usually adequate in post-consolidation spring snow. I've rapped my fat ass into a crevasse with an two-ski X-picket anchor. OP is looking for a spring traverse ski.

I hope you padded the ski edges with your vapor barrier socks to prevent the edges cutting the rope.

[GeezerSteve]

Nah, the VB socks were probably on my feet

[cegli]

The BondX seems like a great ski to me, but it's even hard to find any info on the Bond.
Would love to see feed back on either if anyone knows of any reviews or has skied either.
Seems perfect for the OP's mission.

Wow, I just realized that Jonathan S posted a link to the updated "Bond X-Series", not the original Bond from this year. That ski looks amazing. Thanks for pointing it out! As far as I can tell from the German and French sites it's on, here's the specs:

169cm 2.100g 119|84|108mm 18m
177cm 2.300g 120|84|109mm 19m

Early rise, progressive tip and tail rocker.

Exactly what I wanted. Jonathan, you're right, this might be my new girlfriend. Now if it came in a waxless base option? I can always dream, can't I?

[endure]

Any idea on stiffness of the bond-X? Intuitively, I'd think such a light, wide ski would be quite flimsy.. initial specs look pretty rad though

[cegli]

Since the Bond-X is brand new, I haven't been able to find anything on it. It should have the same core as the Logic-X, so I would imagine statements that apply to the Logic-X would be similar to the Bond-X.

http://www.wildsnow.com/4181/movemen...series-review/

Seems most of the mini-reviews in the comments are also quite positive, but maybe I'm just biased because I want a ski that light to ski well.

Edit:

Also in terms of the original bond for reviews;

It has a review on skimountain.co.uk:

"Excellent ski. Love it for off piste short turns and carving both in and off piste. I compiled a video review: http://youtu.be/xysth4Xp4wo It is mostly from lift based skiing, but the ski has been equally good on the touring I have done.

I have skied this ski in 177. Compared to my previous Dynafit Mustagh Ata SL 187, these skis are more responsive and better carvers. While the Mustagh Ata feels like touring ski, this ski almost feels like a "real" ski."

My background: 187cm, 83, kg, 40 yrs old, skied for 38,5 and been racing for a few of them. I have a short turn preference."

[Jonathan S.]

Re Movement X Series [edit: "enhanced"] availability in North America for next season [edit: "i.e., 2012-13"], the reply I received from Garmont does not sound very promising.

[cegli]

Re Movement X Series availability in North America for next season, the reply I received from Garmont does not sound very promising.

I know they can be found at MEC and Escape Route in BC, Canada last year. Does this sound like it's going to be changed next year, or just the availability in the USA?

[Jonathan S.]

Whoops, sorry about that -- my original post was phrased in a potentially misleading manner.
What I should have added was *enhanced* availability in my quick summary.
So, for this coming season, distribution will basically be like what it was this past season, i.e., not much, and the few dealers that have carried Movement skis and now re-order will determine what Garmont imports for 2012-13.
The bigger launch will be at Winter OR for the 2013-14 season.
So, promising outlook for the season after this coming season...

[gregL]

So, promising outlook for the season after this coming season...

This is North America. First they need to make an 1600 gram X-Series Trust and 1700 gram X-Series Super Turbo. And give the Super Turbo a 116mm waist . . .

[GeezerSteve]

. . . and big tip rocker because, of course, it is impossible to spring tour without it, i.e., everyone needs tip rocker on a traverse ski

[auvgeek]

. . . and big tip rocker because, of course, it is impossible to spring tour without it, i.e., everyone needs tip rocker on a traverse ski

...and apparently a twin tip too.

[gregL]

...and apparently a twin tip too.

. . . with Guardians or wide Dukes for stomping 30 footers when they aren't traversing.

[cegli]

There we go, now you guys are finally getting it . Those things are absolutely required in a spring ski, haha.

Thanks for the clarification Jonathan S!

[auvgeek]

Okay, so I've been looking hard at the Ski Trab Stelvio FreeRide Light XL, partly because bc.com has them on sale for 580$. Never really owned a superlight ski, so this will be my first. Thinking the 178 length will be perfect for my 165#+pack, but anybody convinced I should go 171?

Any other thoughts before I pull the trigger?

[GeezerSteve]

I have 50+ touring days on 185 Stelvio Light XLs. I love them for spring tours and ski mountaineering. Very cool ski. Fantastic for skinning on firm conditions, quick turning and great edging. As noted above, I prefer stiffish traditional camber ski post-consolidation spring touring.

I'm a big dude and thus need the 185s, so I don't have much to offer re length for a guy your size. The lack of ballast does result in getting thrown around a bit on frozen sun cups, etc., so get prepared for that.

[endure]

Any thoughts on the Trab Freerando Light vs. the Tour Rando XL? On paper, the differences I see are $350 retail difference for 130 grams/ski (1230 vs. 1360 in 178cm). The Freerando Light has all sorts of other 'features' such as nano protec, the duo tech skin system, and the honey comb core... but is all that really worth $350? I'd be interested to hear if they actually ski any different.. because if they don't, I'll save my money for the added 130 grams!

[ulty_guy]

On the scientific hand fukk, both the bond-x and logic-x are decently stiff for their weight. I've got 1 friend on the logic-x who's your classic skinny climber and he also says they're very stiff torsionally and he's a big fan. Another friend who's a bigger, stronger guy is on the normal bond and loves them and he's a charging skier so god news there.

Just from the eye, the x-bond doesn't come out with as much tip/tail rocker as the normal bond, but I haven't skied either myself fwiw.

Edit- and I've got a 178 trust for fat touring which weighed in around 1900g/ski and rips pretty much any condition and has the same running length as a 195 S7 :-D

[sfotex]

I found a pair of new 168 BD stigmas for $75 this fall. 1300g and fairly stiff. Threw some non-dynafit tech race bindings on them (got some that have a heel that turns so you get a flat boot position) and notched the tips out for a skin connector and they've been good to go. Other then some wind funk I haven't missed the weight too much.

Check out Hagan skis too, they have a pretty good offering of light skis with some tip rocker.