sissy sticks

**endure** · 05-24-2012, 10:31 AM

I'm planning on putting together a traverse/distance ski but I am having a hard time deciding what I want. Initial thought is something around 80 underfoot and 1200-1400 grams, which from what I've seen puts the length in around 170 for most skis. Although I am looking for lightweight, I'd prefer if it wasn't shear survival mode on the downs. Companies I have looked at include Trab (Duo Freerando Light, Stelvio Light), Dynafit (Guide XL, Seven Summit), and La Sportiva (RST).

For bindings, it seems the tlt speed superlight, la sportiva rt, or Plum 135/145/185 would all be good choices.

Please enlighten me on your thoughts.

**GeezerSteve** · 05-24-2012, 03:43 PM

Nothing wrong with a 170cm if that happens to be the right length for you, but isn't choosing length as a function of weight like the tail wagging the dog? The right length ski will weigh whatever it weighs.

I really like my Stelvio XL Lights for spring tours. Heavier and wider than your spec (and I'm likely much heavier and wider than you.) They are stiff, have great edge hold and turn just fine.

But ballast matters. Light touring skis can get thrown around. Be prepared for that.

I personally would avoid the TLT Superlight because I want a flat touring mode, especially on a traverse or other routes that have long flat sections. The LaSportiva/ATK RTs look great and have a flat touring mode. Have they been around long enough to have a meaningful durability record?

**endure** · 05-24-2012, 04:15 PM

I'm not so worried on length.. my carvers are 163, all-rounds are 179's, and powder skis 186. I'd be happy with 170-180 length. Weight is what I care most about, along with some sort of durability (a few of my friends have snapped ultra light skis during our days out). This would be for doing 20-40 km days with ~1000-2000 vert. I currently have prophet 100's with tlt speeds for this sort of day, but it is overkill and would be much more enjoyable with a lighter setup.

The Stelvio Light would probably be quite similar to the XL, eh? Seems to just be 6 mm underfoot and 90 gram difference

**charles martel** · 05-24-2012, 04:36 PM

Just my two cents.

Not much of BC guy, but I regret selling my pair of these gray Stockli ATs since they ripped on the hardpack, nice in the bumps and were deft in the powder with good float for a skinny ski:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/05-Stockli-S...ht_2802wt_1139

The price isn't that bad if it turns out you don't like them. BTW, the guy I sold them to loved hiking them at the Canyons.

**bfree** · 05-24-2012, 06:02 PM

^ He's looking for lightweight touring skis and you suggest stiff damp Stocklis with a metal layer?

I like my K2 Waybacks, just a few grams more than the ones mentioned thus far but they ski really well. Haven't tried anything lighter, so no comment there. One thing I will say is to budget $ for nice lightweight skins too. No point in shaving grams on skis and then slapping Ascensions on them - get some Dynafit or Colltex skins. I like my Colltex ones and they're also incredibly compact, I just shove one in each pant pocket on the way down during quick laps.

**charles martel** · 05-25-2012, 05:33 AM

Originally Posted by bfree

^ He's looking for lightweight touring skis and you suggest stiff damp Stocklis with a metal layer?

You're right. My bad .......

**I've seen black diamonds!** · 05-25-2012, 08:10 AM

I quite like the G3 Soulfly which not only fits your description, but can be had quite cheap. Like the K2 Wayback, it has a soft snow bias, while the Dynafits and Trabs should excel more on hard snow.

**endure** · 05-25-2012, 08:37 AM

That's a good point; it seems the BD/G3/K2 skis are more based on light but still good for powder. I'm torn as to whether I want that as a priority or not. On one hand it would be nice to have something really light but still feels nice for the mid-winter large excursions, but on the other hand I'm thinking pretty much as light as possible without feeling like I'm on xc skis for spring/summer tours where surface area doesn't really matter.

I'm not sure too many would have an informed answer, but do you think the European style of Trab/Dynafit/La Sportiva would be better at both hard and soft, or the North American BD/G3/K2 ?

**GeezerSteve** · 05-25-2012, 09:13 AM

20-40km/day traverse/high route means hard late season conditions, right? If so, you'll want something pretty stiff for those icy or frozen traverses. Stiff skis skin up frozen morning conditions better too.

Is the K2 Wayback equivalent to the Mount Baker Superlight but with a rocker tip? MBSLs were great light (but not ultralight) skis, though not stiff enough for dude my size.

OP is talking about an 80mm waisted ski. Trab and Dynafit make 80mm waist skis that are way lighter than Waybacks, e.g. Trab Free Rando Light, which is a very very nice lightweight touring ski.

IME, the biggest benefit of really lightweight touring skis is the lower swing weight when they are strapped to your pack.

**stradissimo** · 05-25-2012, 11:55 AM

Movement Logic-X 176 cm, 127-88-115, 1100g
Movement Random-X 167 cm, 115-76-105, 900g

Movement generally makes durable skis with very good edge hold. They're a little behind the times in rocker profiles, but that didn't keep me from really liking the Sluffs I skied on this year.

**alive** · 05-25-2012, 12:47 PM

Hey Endure. You'll love having some sissy sticks in the quiver. I've been using some Dynafit Broad peaks around here and love them. It really is worth going the euro route for spring/summer missions. They are still super fun in the powder as well. If you can mate the ski with a boot like the tlt5, you'll have no problems ripping some big lines on a setup like that....

**endure** · 05-25-2012, 12:58 PM

1.1 kg for 88 underfoot? wow.. potential durability issue? I had been inching towards the Duo Freerando Light.. but the movement has more surface area and is lighter apparently..

**gregL** · 05-26-2012, 07:04 AM

You won't go far wrong with any of the Trab or Dynafit skis between 80mm and 90mm. The Duo Freerando Light is a great ski - I don't love the Duo skin attachment system, but you don't have to use it. Personally I wouldn't go the race binding route, as I'd want a flat and a higher "high" position, but it might work for you. Haven't skied the Logic-X, but friends who own them are believers.

**waxman** · 05-26-2012, 09:26 AM

I think the Dynastar Cham 87 High Mountain fits your needs.
I'll have to check the weight.

**endure** · 05-27-2012, 10:56 AM

thanks for the insight.. seems that there are a bunch of great options available. The binding comments changed my mind; I didn't really think before of not having a flat touring mode.

**grinch** · 05-27-2012, 08:32 PM

Was just looking for a spring ski. Faction agent90 was a good weight, 92 under foot with a bit of rocker. A friend has the movement logic. That thing is light but we both pegged alot of rocks yesterday(south face temple) and for the most part just some scrapes. He put a small edge compression in one ski. We thought both our skis would be much worse. I'm on moment tahoes but I'm not sure there in your weight range. Rocker has saved my ass numerous times this spring(isothermic snow, debris, funky suncrust and runnels). I'd think that'd help with a heavy pack too.

**skiitsbetter** · 05-28-2012, 02:52 PM

I've been doing my spring stuff on 160cm Atomic TM:11 (67mm underfoot, 1kg/ski, I rando raced on them last year before moving on to something lighter). I've skied some steep-ish faces/couloirs with them no problem. They might get chucked around a little bit by debris or crusts (what doesn't?), but it is actually really nice to have such a light and easy turning ski for when your legs are tired.

You get some funny looks at the trailhead, but then partners become envious when they see how well they actually ski (with the right boot, TLT5 not F1), and how little weight you have to haul around when you are coming back to the trailhead through isothermal snow after 12hrs. Don't be afraid to go short, skinny, and light.

**GeezerSteve** · 05-29-2012, 11:08 AM

Spring touring season is here. First tours (Sat and Sun) of the season on my Stelvio Light XLs reminded me how much I love those skis.

I milled a short DIY waxless base into them after arriving home yesterday. After I try them out I'll report on the waxless base thread.

**Jonathan S.** · 05-29-2012, 11:22 AM

Originally Posted by skiitsbetter

I've been doing my spring stuff on 160cm Atomic TM:11 (67mm underfoot, 1kg/ski, I rando raced on them last year before moving on to something lighter). I've skied some steep-ish faces/couloirs with them no problem. They might get chucked around a little bit by debris or crusts (what doesn't?), but it is actually really nice to have such a light and easy turning ski for when your legs are tired.

When those were my rando race skis, I used them for lots of spring tours. They ski quite well on consolidated snow!

Back to the OP, I put together this summary chart of skinny skis:
http://www.wildsnow.com/5721/skinny-backcountry-skis/
No, I haven't been updating it, and yes, my chart for somewhat wider skis has a width gap:
http://www.wildsnow.com/4181/movemen...series-review/
... but still, I'm a really fan of such skinny skis if you anticipate consolidated snow. Even aside from the ski weight savings, your skins are lighter, and ditto for your ski crampons too. And for packing, the combination of skinny skins, Dynafit Speed Crampons, and CAMP Race 290 boot crampons, makes for some very compact travel gear.

For bindings, the lack of a higher elevator position on rando race models is definitely a drawback if you anticipate significant stretches of significantly steeper-than-optimal skinning. I don't think that the lack of a flat skinning position is a significant drawback on the Dynafit Superlite, unless you anticipate extended truly flat skinning. For the RT, I started up a separate thread in the hopes of getting more user feedback:
http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...s-feedback-etc
(Yes, we have a few older threads on the RT, but they were focused on pre-use speculation, as opposed to real world feedback.)

**BFD** · 05-29-2012, 02:43 PM

I read the op and did not see anything about spring conditions. I thought the op was looking for a traverse ski. There are lots of good skis. I ski whatever ski I am skiing the most at the time of the trip. Most important thing is to know your gear and be comfortable with it.

**GeezerSteve** · 05-29-2012, 03:25 PM

A 40km ski traverse usually means spring conditions, no?

ETA: OP does mention "spring/summer tours where surface area doesn't really matter" in post #8

**endure** · 05-29-2012, 09:52 PM

yea I think I'm mainly asking for spring/summer, although if they would also work out for mid-winter large excursions (i.e. big outing to a steep couloir for the hell of doing it rather than the amazing ski quality) then that would be nice too. Too many options.. right now I think I'm leaning towards the Duo Freerando Light.. it just sounds like Trab has this down and people are really happy with them

**cegli** · 05-30-2012, 01:09 PM

This thread has gotten me super interested in the Movement Logic-X. I had no idea there was a ski with that kind of dimensions while still being that light. If they would make a version with a twin tip and a bit of early rise on the tip, I would be in love. Wish more people could say how it actually skis, hard to find any reviews of it.

The trab line is interesting. It's unfortunate that it seems most of the superlight ski manufactures have only skinny, traditional cambered, non-twin tipped designs. It makes sense for a large portion of people, but I know there have to be some other people who want something light with a bit of a newer design.

**Jonathan S.** · 05-30-2012, 01:14 PM

Originally Posted by cegli

This thread has gotten me super interested in the Movement Logic-X. I had no idea there was a ski with that kind of dimensions while still being that light. If they would make a version with a twin tip and a bit of early rise on the tip, I would be in love.

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