'Snow Beacon' Avalanche Transmitter

[CarveMan]

Hohes had hinted at the arrival of this product some time ago.

It's a low cost avalanche transmitter only (no search mode).

Affordable backcountry safety or irresponsible device?

Here are my thoughts.

http://aussieskier.com/index.php/201...e-transmitter/

[Tutuko]

I wouldn't be caught dead with one

[That was Pontus]

Whose fucking idea was this? I want their knee caps broken & I hope they never again get to enjoy the wonders of backcountry travel. This has got be as dumb as the iPhone app...

[summit]

Extremely bad idea when marketed like that. People will die.

If you don't want to read the blog: http://www.snow-beacon.com/

Hey, but they have a beacon that has a search mode under development... it'll be marketed to SAR

However, if you have the desire and are physically capable of rescuing your partner who’s caught in an avalanche, we can set you up with the right equipment at a price you cannot ignore.

In our dedicated Search and Rescue section, you can find probes and aluminum snow shovels that compliment our unique locator system, including our very own “M0LE”.

Their facebook is here: https://www.facebook.com/snowbeacon

[SiSt]

Not a good idea.

When would this kind of thing be put to good use?

[summit]

At no point does the potential for good outcomes outweigh the potential for bad.

There's a damned good reason that all the other beacon manufacturers have not created a product like this and marketed it to the entry level backcountry user.

Will we have to be so specific now to ask "do you have a a transceiver?" instead of "do you have beacon?"

Beacon check? What's that? Who needs to do a beacon check if you can't search anyways...

[brosia]

Step 1) Go to their webpage. Click on the 'Contact Us' link.
Step 2) Write message telling them how awful and unethical these beacons are.
Step 3) Press send and then go to their Facebook page and publicly comment about the stupidity of having one of these beacons.

Do you think flooding their inbox with a ton of messages against this beacon will make them change their product?........probably not but could be fun to try and wake them up

[CarveMan]

I linked my blog to their facebook but they marked the post as Spam.

[CarveMan]

There's a damned good reason that all the other beacon manufacturers have not created a product like this and marketed it to the entry level backcountry user.

Exactly.

It's hardly a market segment that's bereft of innovation.

If we ever ski together I'll be packing a Mammut Pulse, probe & shovel and ready to take the responsibility for potentially digging you out.

[summit]

Brosia posits that an engineer who has good book smarts, but not common sense, decided to create a solution to a problem he didn't actually bother to properly understand by taking an avalanche class or asking an avalanche professional.

Inventor James Aubrey Robson is an avalanche JONG. This is a much easier idea to accept than Businessman James Aubrey Robson being an unethical greedy fucktard.

How the hell did he get so far without being told by everyone and their brother that this is a horrible idea?

[CarveMan]

I'd like to think you're right about the JONG part. I'm sure it's not a malicious invention, however poorly thought out.

[pfluffenmeister]

no good will come of this.

[Jonathan S.]

I've always found it kind of interesting that each alpine nation has had one and only one avy beacon company (at any one time), which kind of reflects the national character:
- Skadi = A research lab in Western NY designed the first effective avy beacon . . . but then the Euros adopted a different frequency.
- Ramer = Dared to be the different and super innovative American, going up against the stodgy Euros.
- BCA = Inherited Ramer's mantle and totally changed the stodgy Euro beacon design by adding a second antenna and digital processing for directional information. (USA! USA!)
- Ortovox = All sorts of German high-tech innovation.
- Barryvox = Swiss sophistication.
- ARVA = Some good models, some not-so-good, and over the years has sometimes been ahead of the tech curve, sometimes behind . . . has historically shown little interest in selling beacons outside of France, especially in the U.S.
- Pieps = Okay, so I can't think of any relevant Austrian stereotype.
- SOS = Lame knockoff of Ortovox F1 (even the model name too -- F1-ND, hah, Find, get it ... how not-so-clever) and now defunct ... doesn't Canada deserve better than this?
- Fitre = Italian, dropped out of the beacon market long ag.
- Snow-be = For the sake of Australia, I sure hope this isn't symbolic of the national culture and/or technological state.

That said, all that's new about this is the price and marketing. Ortovox previously had the D2, and somebody else had a similar model, but they were marketed toward dogs (bad!) and finding your tent or gear stash in super-harsh weather conditions. (SOS had a special version of its F1-ND with a separate frequency for finding your sled, Pieps now has a separate-frequency beacon for finding your dog.) The Pieps Backup transmit-only device is intended to, well, back up any regular transceiver that lacks an emergency revert mode, and although it could be misused by itself, Pieps has the Freeride which like the name implies is intended for those more focused on being found that finding -- plus it's lighter than the Snow-be (when slipped into a pocket w/o its harness, which is the only option for the Snow-be), about the same size, and although more expensive, still way cheaper than any other beacon.

The only good thing about the Snow-be is the significant cost savings if you wanted to build your own beacon park with lots of transmitters, and you didn't have access to lots of discarded cheap old beacons.

The FAQ puts on a pretty interesting spin. Maybe I'm missing something, but I didn't see any suggestion anywhere in the website that if you're skiing so often in terrain with avalanche potential that you feel compelled the purchase a transmit-only device yet "are not capable of being involved in a rescue" then perhaps you should invest some time/effort/money in becoming capable?

Question: If I only carry a transmitter (snow-be) am I just being selfish?
Answer: No. If you are not capable of being involved in a rescue or, with your presence you put yourself or others at greater risk because of your involvement including delaying the rescue, it may safer for all if you move away from an incident to a place of safety.

[CarveMan]

- Snow-be = For the sake of Australia, I sure hope this isn't symbolic of the national culture and/or technological state.

Please don't judge me. I ski with a beacon/shovel/probe, and a guide if required, and post Chamonix stoke.

[josef]

Time to implement the safety check gear swap...

[bigdude2468]

I've always found it kind of interesting that each alpine nation has had one and only one avy beacon company (at any one time), which kind of reflects the national character:
- Skadi = A research lab in Western NY designed the first effective avy beacon . . . but then the Euros adopted a different frequency.
- Ramer = Dared to be the different and super innovative American, going up against the stodgy Euros.
- BCA = Inherited Ramer's mantle and totally changed the stodgy Euro beacon design by adding a second antenna and digital processing for directional information. (USA! USA!)
- Ortovox = All sorts of German high-tech innovation.
- Barryvox = Swiss sophistication.
- ARVA = Some good models, some not-so-good, and over the years has sometimes been ahead of the tech curve, sometimes behind . . . has historically shown little interest in selling beacons outside of France, especially in the U.S.
- Pieps = Okay, so I can't think of any relevant Austrian stereotype.
- SOS = Lame knockoff of Ortovox F1 (even the model name too -- F1-ND, hah, Find, get it ... how not-so-clever) and now defunct ... doesn't Canada deserve better than this?
- Fitre = Italian, dropped out of the beacon market long ag.
- Snow-be = For the sake of Australia, I sure hope this isn't symbolic of the national culture and/or technological state.

That said, all that's new about this is the price and marketing. Ortovox previously had the D2, and somebody else had a similar model, but they were marketed toward dogs (bad!) and finding your tent or gear stash in super-harsh weather conditions. (SOS had a special version of its F1-ND with a separate frequency for finding your sled, Pieps now has a separate-frequency beacon for finding your dog.) The Pieps Backup transmit-only device is intended to, well, back up any regular transceiver that lacks an emergency revert mode, and although it could be misused by itself, Pieps has the Freeride which like the name implies is intended for those more focused on being found that finding -- plus it's lighter than the Snow-be (when slipped into a pocket w/o its harness, which is the only option for the Snow-be), about the same size, and although more expensive, still way cheaper than any other beacon.

The only good thing about the Snow-be is the significant cost savings if you wanted to build your own beacon park with lots of transmitters, and you didn't have access to lots of discarded cheap old beacons.

The FAQ puts on a pretty interesting spin. Maybe I'm missing something, but I didn't see any suggestion anywhere in the website that if you're skiing so often in terrain with avalanche potential that you feel compelled the purchase a transmit-only device yet "are not capable of being involved in a rescue" then perhaps you should invest some time/effort/money in becoming capable?

Question: If I only carry a transmitter (snow-be) am I just being selfish?
Answer: No. If you are not capable of being involved in a rescue or, with your presence you put yourself or others at greater risk because of your involvement including delaying the rescue, it may safer for all if you move away from an incident to a place of safety.

My experience is that even a dope who has no search ability has value during a rescue. Moving snow away from the burial site, initially looking for gloves or a pole sticking up, I can find something for them to do. This is a real bad idea and I can see more and more novices wearing these in bounds and in the event of a slide, such as Snowbird had two years ago not having the sense to turn off their beacon while patrol tries to search for a signal. I am not going anywhere with someone that has one of these pieces of shit on.

[time2clmb]

Question: If I only carry a transmitter (snow-be) am I just being selfish?
Answer: No. If you are not capable of being involved in a rescue or, with your presence you put yourself or others at greater risk because of your involvement including delaying the rescue, it may safer for all if you move away from an incident to a place of safety.

The answer to that is yes. As a responsible individual it is up to the person to learn how to be capable at partner rescue before ever heading in to the back country. So if you have not bothered to learn anything and have a trasmit only device, you are most definately selfish.

[summit]

The awful message Snow Beacon is transmitting with their product is that people do not need the tools to rescue others, even in theory. They are teaching that people need not even have a desire to help their backcountry partners. That is an awful ethic to promote; it is against the ethics promoted by avalanche educators worldwide.

[LC]

Maybe good for kids to carry? I mean pre-teen, unable to help with rescue. Still, the potential benefit of that use doesn't outweigh the risk caused in the hands of JONGs.

[PNWbrit]

Question: If I only carry a transmitter (snow-be) am I just being selfish?[/B]
Answer: No. If you are not capable of being involved in a rescue or, with your presence you put yourself or others at greater risk because of your involvement including delaying the rescue, it may safer for all if you move away from an incident to a place of safety.

Jonathan. You're wrong. Sorry.

[josef]

Maybe good for kids to carry? I mean pre-teen, unable to help with rescue. Still, the potential benefit of that use doesn't outweigh the risk caused in the hands of JONGs.

I was thinking this too. Or maybe a dog or something. But chasing them down to turn it off in a rescue could be a time consuming nightmare. I dont think we need to worry about too many shops picking these up.

[summit]

Maybe good for kids to carry? I mean pre-teen, unable to help with rescue. Still, the potential benefit of that use doesn't outweigh the risk caused in the hands of JONGs.

I can teach an 11 year old to use a modern beacon quite easily. They pick it up faster than adults. They can shovel too.

I'd avoid the mental trap of trying to think of some hypothetical market micro-niche that would be ethical to market to when Snow Beacon is NOT doing that. They are marketing to entry-level backcountry users and every tourist on the hill.

[PNWbrit]

I can teach an 11 year old to use a modern beacon quite easily.

Or at the very least teach them to just turn it to search.... which you'd also have to do for this new POS product?

[LC]

The problem is, the product will sell. People will buy into the marketing. Shops will want to stock a product that they know will sell. It's like a Recco patch, plus potential consequences. Look at how many manufacturers are putting Recco into their products, because the public buys into the idea.

[summit]

Everything that Recco did right, this company is doing wrong.

PNW... I don't understand either of your posts. Drink your coffee, then reread the thread. Jonathan was quoting and this product has NO SEARCH mode.