'Snow Beacon' Avalanche Transmitter

[doughboyshredder]

Nope not joking. My pc experience is extremely limited but I would think it would be nice to be able to find your dog he got buried in an avalanche.

Sent from my PantechP8000 using TGR Forums

[ACH]

It's not the end of the world, no.

However it's also not a great idea.
IMO, it's sort of like sitting in the exit row on an airline (one way or round trip),
If you are sitting there, are you able to help in the case of an emergency?
If you think you need to carry a transmit only,
doesn't that also imply that you are skiing in terrain in conditions
where you should have at least a basic awareness (to avoid risk) as well as the ability to help others in need?

People do get hosed in-bounds on powder days.
You only have to look at this seasons statistics to know that.
Some times it goes big, I'm thinking Canyons (or was it park west at the time)
some time in the last decade if memory serves (too lazy to google this morning).

[ACH]

Nope not joking. My pc experience is extremely limited but I would think it would be nice to be able to find your dog he got buried in an avalanche.

Sent from my PantechP8000 using TGR Forums

[thread drift]
I'm assuming that you meant bc...
Do a search on this subject, it's been debated pretty well here.
There are several reasons why this is a bad idea.[/thread drift]

[bigdude2468]

Nope not joking. My pc experience is extremely limited but I would think it would be nice to be able to find your dog he got buried in an avalanche.

Sent from my PantechP8000 using TGR Forums

Well its going to be a joke to your family. My partners and I see the avalanche occur and quickly start searching the debris field. We have no idea how many are trapped and of course have no idea your dog is wearing a transmitter. We turn our beacons on, do a quick search and locate a signal. Only two of us so we can't start looking for multiple burials, no time, we are going to dig you out as fast as we can... oops, we dig out Fido while you die of asphyxiation.

[PNWbrit]

Well its going to be a joke to your family. My partners and I see the avalanche occur and quickly start searching the debris field. We have no idea how many are trapped and of course have no idea your dog is wearing a transmitter. We turn our beacons on, do a quick search and locate a signal. Only two of us so we can't start looking for multiple burials, no time, we are going to dig you out as fast as we can... oops, we dig out Fido while you die of asphyxiation.

Or... there's an avalanche that DBS is caught in.... Before we can start an accurate search for him with real (not these pretend pink uni-directional Australian avalanche beacons) we have to catch his dog and turn it's beacon off. This might be difficult given that its owner had, skied off down slope, it had likely followed, it may not respond to stranger's command, we may not be able to safely access where dog is now to do so....

End result DBS ends up dead... but at least Fido is still wagging his tail.

[PNWbrit]

Maybe it turns on and off easily?

Unlikely significantly more easily than a normal beacon?

[ACH]

Looks like they are feeling the heat.

http://unofficialnetworks.com/snowbe...grilled-98920/

[bigdude2468]

Or... there's an avalanche that DBS is caught in.... Before we can start an accurate search for him with real (not these pretend pink uni-directional Australian avalanche beacons) we have to catch his dog and turn it's beacon off. This might be difficult given that its owner had, skied off down slope, it had likely followed, it may not respond to stranger's command, we may not be able to safely access where dog is now to do so....

End result DBS ends up dead... but at least Fido is still wagging his tail.

For all we know the family might like the dog better than DBS anyway? At certain points in my kids lives I am sure their answer would have been the dog over me.

[PNWbrit]

For all we know the family might like the dog better than DBS anyway?

I hadn't thought of it like that.

Very good point.

[jfost]

For all we know the family might like the dog better than DBS anyway? At certain points in my kids lives I am sure their answer would have been the dog over me.

they'd be at least happy with 50/50 odds I guess...

[doughboyshredder]

You guys are meanies.

LOL.
Yeah I thought about the whole dog running around with a transmitting beacon thing after I posted.

I guess you just have to hope dog doesn't get buried.

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[mtngirl79]

The most ridiculous aspect of this searchless beacon?

Think of all the things you need to know/learn how to do to be safe in avalanche terrain and the backcountry..

The list is endless, and ongoing. Probably one of the easiest things to learn, if not the easiest is how to do a beacon search.

I bet with less than 5 minutes instruction 95% of people over the age of 5 could flip any modern beacon (the old ones with the sound and no arrow are harder...) to search mode and find a buried beacon. Actually, I bet more than 75% of people over the age of 5 could figure it out with no instruction other than what is on the back of the beacon.

It might take them longer without any real training and practice, and some may freak out and become useless due to the stress of the situation, but at least a beacon with a search function is there.... Even inbounds, unless they happen to already be there, how long is it going to take to get patrol there? Someone has to call them or go get them or get to a chair to have them called. Then relay the location, which could be difficult, depending on the person and stress factor. Tourists and irregular locals would probably suck at describing the location...


If this snowbe guy wants to market searchless beacons why doesn't he just use a different signal and then provide SAR and Ski Patrol with receivers? As long as they are marketed in a way that clearly states going for/waiting for help in a burial is like signing your buried buddies death certificate, and that they are only meant to help in the rare event of an inbounds burial on piste where help is very near, and not remote ski resort type terrain or backcountry, that would be tolerable. Sort of like a more portable RECCO.


The only benefit the buried person has with the snowbe is an easier body recovery. Save SAR the effort of a probe line?

[bigdude2468]

We don't want a bunch of gapers who have no idea what they are doing standing around an avalanche site watching patrol try to figure out #1, do any of the victim(s) have a beacon on and #2 how many people watching the activities have on this POS and not the sense to turn it off. I also think you can make a good case that especially with young males that giving them one of these cranks up their testosterone and they now have less fear of ducking ropes and going places they would otherwise not go. I think most novice BC skiers (I know I did) have the wrong impression about beacons and how they work and just how ineffective they are at saving lives. The example they reference of the avalanche in France last year is a bad one as it occurred right at a lift where help is probably not a long way away. In most Western US ski resorts the patrol is going to be a good 15 minutes away before you could get enough resources to start an organized search. By the time they decide what the status of hang fire is, get to the top of the debris field, start the search and pinpoint where it is I am not sure what the odds are going to be.

Would this be better than Recco?

[userA]

buy an old jacket with recco function, cut out transmitter and secure it to dogs collar. now fido can be recovered without interrupting hasty search for human victims. once SAR arrives they can search for dog after area has been cleared.

i bet that 95% of people witnessing a violent avy. couldn't even get to the victim in 5 min. even if they see them.

a tragic avalanche that took my friends life was hampered by a mixed signal from another party rushing uphill with their beacons on transmit mode. so many variables to consider.
rip erik
bobby

[ACH]

rip erik
bobby

Amen.

........

[bigdude2468]

Amen.

........

sorry for your loss. Someone ought to produce a staged search and rescue so that folks can see just how fucked up they are.

I think this thread has been beat to death

[ACH]

sorry for your loss.

Thank you.
He was a good friend to BF and myself, we miss him and think of him often.

Someone ought to produce a staged search and rescue so that folks can see just how fucked up they are.

Add group dynamic to the situation to demonstrate just how quick shit can go down hill without proper education

I think this thread has been beat to death

Perhaps, however I have a final thought that I would like to share.

By lowering the bar for entry this product instills a false sense of security/peace of mind and side steps an important component, education.
Purchasing a transceiver has always gone hand in hand (granted at varying degrees depending on the purchaser) with some amount of education
and practice, the focus of which is to be proficient at saving another persons life. Just the act of practicing alone helps to reinforce the fact that there are dangers and that being prepared is in the best interest of you and anyone you will be riding with. There is an awareness that goes along with this. And, we are only talking about a S&R function here, not even touching on what one could argue are more important aspects, such as an awareness that helps to mitigate the risk.
IMO, this product trivializes inerrant risk by side stepping education altogether, by removing this component, and potentially sets up the purchaser in a form of heuristic trap. Shame on parents for not properly educating themselves or their children if they are sending them into this environment thinking that this will make them safer.

Skiing in the mountains is and has always been a dangerous business, there is an implied risk that we all except.
There is a level of education and experience that all Winter sports participants should have that gives them the foundation for awareness.
This product skirts responsibility and at best only provides a function that is already being met by the Recco system.

[PNWbrit]

Well said Matt.

[userA]

followed by amen

[Schemeboat]

http://www.avalanche.ca/cac/gear/rev...eiver-test.pdf

Interesting test with 3 antenna beacons, guides vs. kids who have never used a beacon.

[Shorty_J]

Alarming.

I sent the following to their "contact us" page and will try to post the same thing on my facebook when I get home from work...

"I just found out about your product and I have to say, I find it very irresponsible of you to sell this product.

The concept of someone wearing something they can be found with, but have no ability exact a rescue of their own is a violation of one of the underlying principles of backcountry safety, and I find it appalling that you are attempting to make it easier for people to go into the backcountry without the skills they need for responsible travel.

Please stop making and selling this device."

[Shorty_J]

Would this be better than Recco?

Recco was never marketed as backcountry safety, it was geared towards resort users as resort patrol would be the only people likely to have the search device.

[pfluffenmeister]

^^^ and it's essentially a body locator.

[Shorty_J]

^^^ and it's essentially a body locator.

^^^ not the greatest ad campaign maybe, but probably accurate.

[PNWbrit]

Recco was never marketed as backcountry safety.

That's a matter of opinion.