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  1. #51
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    Oct 2003
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    Well, there was quite the discussion going on the Snow Beacon facebook page... after two failed attempts at defending itself, the company decided it would be easier to delete the entire debate.

    So we can begin anew.... share your thoughts, folks! https://www.facebook.com/snowbeacon
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  2. #52
    Hugh Conway Guest
    E-Lynching! FUCK YEAH! POCKET INTERWEBZ SKI HARDMEN UNIT!

  3. #53
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    Jul 2009
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    Rawesome, BC
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    Heh, banned. My comment & subsequent email.

    "I am appalled. James Aubrey Robson is actually attempting to promote and sell ignorance in the backcountry? Disgusting."

    And now you're the deleting of comments by both professional and informed recreational backcountry users? Did you hire your publicity department from Sunshine Village?

    Not only am I appalled, I am offended. I am a backcountry user. Every time I go out, I use the opportunity to grow, to learn, to develop my skills in avalanche terrain and to mesh those skills with those of my partners, new & old, so that we may make the best, most informed decisions we can.

    Your device and the way it is being marketed does the complete opposite. It provides a false sense of security to an ignorant consumer who really has no concept of what being in avalanche terrain actually encompasses. I don't believe you or your team at Snow-Beacon does either.

    The only task this device is suitable for is a beacon training park for the practice of beacon searches as well as probing & shovelling techniques.
    Life is simple. Go Explore.

  4. #54
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    Also banned... keep up the good work folks... he's sure to see the light eventually. By that, I mean he is sure to turn off commenting.

    According to the other thread, this was the product creator's sales pitch at the trade show: "I don't know about you but I am a selfish skier and I just want to get found"
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  5. #55
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    Dec 2004
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    Amherst, Mass.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Conway View Post
    I'd much rather full function beacons drop in price, but that doesn't seem to be in the cards really.
    The BCA Tracker DTS at its introduction cost about $430 in inflation-adjusted 2012 dollars. And discounted prices were relatively rare back then.
    The full retail price is now $290, but it's available on sale at the moment for $217, or $263 with probe and shovel.
    The Ortovox Zoom will retail for $249 this fall.
    The Ortovox Patroller Digital had a full retail of $249, and on sale now for $187.
    So overall, beacons have dropped by about half in real inflation-adjusted terms, over a period of about a decade and a half.
    Mo' skimo here: NE Rando Race Series

  6. #56
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Oz
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    944
    Thanks all for the comments.

    Today Unofficial picked up on my post, I made sure I was pretty measured in my account but they went for the jugular: http://unofficialnetworks.com/danger...-snowbe-98574/

    It also elicited a reply from another Australian blogger with sympathy for the owners and also a story on the importance of correctly representing a product's information on the website: http://pitchit2me.wordpress.com/2012...oggers-attack/

    The website product description has since been updated and I'm sure this will further evolve.

    It would seem that I've stirred a bit of a hornet's nest, it wasn't my intention to create a witch hunt and it's not a topic that I will follow as a crusade.

    However I am content that the ill-conceivedness of this device has been acknowledged by the wider community, and for what it's worth even after the explanation of its purpose I'm still of the opinion that the device is still limited in its scope and that is vastly outweighed by the potential for its misuse.

    While I have no doubt that the owners conceived this device with the best of intentions I think it was done in ignorance of the culture of backcountry skiing, and while we now know this device is not intended for the backcountry, it is core BC skiers that are most likely to pick up on these devices at first and they have responded accordingly.

    Happy skiing.

  7. #57
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    Apr 2004
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    Chamonix
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarveMan View Post
    The website product description has since been updated and I'm sure this will further evolve.
    Until they update it to say "If you see an avalanche while wearing our product, ski 50+ metres away from any point of debris and make no attempt to help with search and rescue", it's still not good enough. This should be on the product also. "Backcountry" vs inbounds is not the issue.

  8. #58
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Oz
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    Given the level of knowledge here, TGR is not really my target audience for this, but further to the above due to interest generated I've extracted a PDF from my eBook 'The Powder Bible' on Avalanche Safety and made it available on http://facebook.com/aussieskierblog

    You don't have to 'Like' the page, but it would be nice if you did.

  9. #59
    Hugh Conway Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan S. View Post
    So overall, beacons have dropped by about half in real inflation-adjusted terms, over a period of about a decade and a half.
    every fucking electronics manufacturer in the world would kill to have something warmed over from 15 years ago sell for 50% Jonathan. see, there'd been cheaper beacons like the Pieps Freeride but "experts" don't like the cheaper ones because we all need the latest greatest doubleheaded dildos so people don't seem to expend effort on that end.

  10. #60
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Scotland
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Conway View Post
    every fucking electronics manufacturer in the world would kill to have something warmed over from 15 years ago sell for 50% Jonathan. see, there'd been cheaper beacons like the Pieps Freeride but "experts" don't like the cheaper ones because we all need the latest greatest doubleheaded dildos so people don't seem to expend effort on that end.
    Pieps Tour only 119 euros
    That is only a fraction more for a (limited analogue) search mode.

    http://www.sport-conrad.com/page/pro...shop/prod/2412

  11. #61
    Hugh Conway Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Scottish_Skier View Post
    Pieps Tour only 119 euros
    That is only a fraction more for a (limited analogue) search mode.

    http://www.sport-conrad.com/page/pro...shop/prod/2412
    I didn't say I'd by the piece of shit transmitter. I just don't get the up in arms "OMFG the world is ending" e-avy hardmen bullshit where everyone only uses the latest greatest equipment.

  12. #62
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    Mar 2011
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    SW Jongistan
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Conway View Post
    I didn't say I'd by the piece of shit transmitter. I just don't get the up in arms "OMFG the world is ending" e-avy hardmen bullshit where everyone only uses the latest greatest equipment.
    Previous transmit-only beacons were made by companies with good avalanche knowledge and typically mediocre marketing ability. This one is made by a company with decent marketing (hey, they have a spiff website! And have gone viral on the Facebooks!) and seemingly little avalanche sense. Or at least they are not conveying it to their target audience.

    It's not the crapness of the hardware that offends me so much as the strong implication that you don't need to learn anything, just carry the little doodad for magic bubble protection against avalanches. At least put some bold face warnings on the site and box and print some instructions on the back. Every other beacon seems to have them, shitty as they are.

    I understand your reaction to the techno-arms-race, "How dare you use a beacon that is X years old," etc, as if that were more important than avoiding getting caught in the first place. This gizmo isn't the end of the world, but it is something that amplifies stupidity.

  13. #63
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
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    SW Jongistan
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    To clarify, the reason I think they should put instructions on the back is not because I think the instructions do any good (in an emergency, it would be better to know what to do w/o instructions), but because it conveys to the user that there are instructions and maybe you ought to know what to do. It's not a simple push button and forget about it situation. Making the thing look like an iPhone is good marketing but misleading.

  14. #64
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    Sep 2001
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    JH
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    Here's my review of it: The world's most selfish avalanche beacon
    I hope this helps educate.
    "Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention to arrive safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming: Wow!!! What a ride!"


    "We been runnin' these goddam hills for dang near, huh?"
    Sturgis Uncensored

  15. #65
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    May 2006
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    It does seem that the people that actually end up dead in avy's are those WITH training AND equipment AND partners. Newbies with x-mit only beacons who ski on powder days at resorts just aren't very likely to be caught out in a slide now are they?
    ... jfost is really ignorant, he often just needs simple facts laid out for him...

  16. #66
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    Mar 2006
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    Missoula, MT
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    Quote Originally Posted by PNWbrit View Post
    Or at the very least teach them to just turn it to search.... which you'd also have to do for this new POS product?
    Yeah. It first I thought maybe heliskiing companies could give this to their clients, but you can't just have several beacons on send only. Maybe it turns on and off easily?

    Sent from my cell phone. no, a cell phone.
    No longer stuck.

    Quote Originally Posted by stuckathuntermtn View Post
    Just an uneducated guess.

  17. #67
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    Dec 2007
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    T-town, CO. USA
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    The ONLY way that the Snow-Be might be useful is for playing "hide and go seek"... to practice your beacon searches...

    ...with your REAL BEACONS!!

    Otherwise, this product is pure EVIL and will surely cost lives!
    Leave No Turn Unstoned!

  18. #68
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    Jul 2009
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    Rawesome, BC
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    Quote Originally Posted by stuckathuntermtn View Post
    Yeah. It first I thought maybe heliskiing companies could give this to their clients
    So what happens when the guide(s) gets buried? Take the Snowwater incident back in March. Two complete burials (guests, both deceased), two partials (a guest & the guide) and only one non burial (guest, did the radio call for help). Things could have very well swung any which way & it could have been the guide completely buried. A lot of fucking good a single transceiver does if it's the one under two meters of snow.

    As far as I'm concerned trancievers are only good if every member of the group (guide or not) has one, knows how to use it effectively (in both transmit AND search mode), and is using it in conjunction with a probe & shovel. Otherwise, what is the fucking point..... may was well just go jump off a bridge.
    Life is simple. Go Explore.

  19. #69
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    Dec 2007
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    T-town, CO. USA
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    It's as bad as wearing a beacon and not carrying a probe and shovel!
    Leave No Turn Unstoned!

  20. #70
    Hugh Conway Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by That was Pontus View Post
    As far as I'm concerned trancievers are only good if every member of the group (guide or not) has one, knows how to use it effectively (in both transmit AND search mode), and is using it in conjunction with a probe & shovel. Otherwise, what is the fucking point..... may was well just go jump off a bridge.
    At some point you skiied in a group that wasn't like this. Likely because you were a beginner.

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Conway View Post
    At some point you skiied in a group that wasn't like this. Likely because you were a beginner.
    Absolutely, I've done dumb, ignorant shit. We likely all have. However it's not something I'm necessarily proud of and in turn tried to develop and market to an ignorant audience just to make a buck. The creator the 'Snow Beacon' is arrogant and a complete asshole. What I am proud of is that at some point I realized I was doing dumb, ignorant shit and decided to get an education, equipment & experience that I could learn from. I didn't feel like jumping off a bridge.
    Life is simple. Go Explore.

  22. #72
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    A very bad idea with modern marketing.
    Life is not lift served.

  23. #73
    doughboyshredder Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by BamBam_540 View Post
    Maybe good for kids to carry? I mean pre-teen, unable to help with rescue. Still, the potential benefit of that use doesn't outweigh the risk caused in the hands of JONGs.
    And dogs.

  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by doughboyshredder View Post
    And dogs.
    Now youve really gone and done it...

    Sent from my TI-89
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  25. #75
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    Jul 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by doughboyshredder View Post
    And dogs.


    WTF, you are joking right?

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