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05-22-2012, 10:56 AM #26Gel-powered Tech bindings
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Mo' skimo here: NE Rando Race Series
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05-22-2012, 11:00 AM #27Hugh Conway Guest
These have been around for decades and yet the apocalypse hasn't come.
Chalk it up to TGR nano-dick swinging.
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05-22-2012, 11:01 AM #28
You have to teach a new user to turn this POS out of transmit mode in order for them not to interfere with a search being conducted by a regular beacon? Just as you'd have to teach a new user of a regular beacon to switch out transmit mode.
The learning curve for both devices (up to that point of basic functionality for one and complete expertise with the other) is exactly the same.
And Jonathan was wrong the wearer of this new device is being selfish... as well as being stoopid.
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05-22-2012, 11:03 AM #29Gel-powered Tech bindings
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Mo' skimo here: NE Rando Race Series
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05-22-2012, 11:04 AM #30
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05-22-2012, 11:04 AM #31Registered User
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05-22-2012, 11:16 AM #32Gel-powered Tech bindings
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True, this won’t bring on an (the?) apocalypse.
But the Ortovox D2 and whatever was the other competing model, were about half the price of beacons, and were marketed for dogs (bad) and tents/gear on remote mountaineering trips (justifiable ... I think?)
This new device is about a quarter the price of a typical price-point beacon, and moreover that price point has dropped in real/inflation-adjusted terms in recent years. At a full retail price of $75 (AUD and USD seem to be about par), if this is exported in sufficiently large quantities, the discount price will get down to that of a impulse purchase. And the marketing is encouraging skiers who are entirely ignorant of any rescue protocols to remain so. Plus nowhere does the website state that if you’re a bystander to a burial, you’d better turn off your Snow-be immediately. (Instead, the only advice is to “move away from an incident to a place of safety” but you’d better get out of range of any searchers, plus chances are that the purchaser of this thing won’t even be able to recognize “a place of safety.”)Mo' skimo here: NE Rando Race Series
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05-22-2012, 11:29 AM #33
Arguably, the D2 was marketed to hunters to put on hunting dogs that might become trapped in an underground burrow. It wasn't marketed for dogs in the snow. I think in Germany the beacon was sold as the jagerhundsendenn or something like that (Hunting Dog Transmitter).
This company, Snow Beacon, is directly marketing to joe tourist with the message of, "Don't you worry about rescuing other people! Let other people worry about rescuing you!" Snow Beacon is going to trade shows and encouraging others to promote their/sell product with the same message.
Snow Beacon doesn't have to close up shop to be ethical. They can still finish developing and sell their probes, clothes, and MOLE transceiver. They could adapt the Snow-Be into an affordable practice beacon park product.
Ethically, they do need change their message and stop selling the Snow-Be to consumers the way they are doing it now.Last edited by Summit; 05-22-2012 at 12:20 PM.
Originally Posted by blurred
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05-22-2012, 11:33 AM #34Gel-powered Tech bindings
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Mo' skimo here: NE Rando Race Series
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05-22-2012, 02:06 PM #35AF
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Please don't put a beacon on your dog in the BC. Suppose the dog plus YOU gets buried, how lucky do you feel? there is a 50 - 50 chance we dig you out and not the dog? I think the point is that most BC skiers, even novices spend some time learning about the BC, how to put their shovel together, use of a probe and some basic knowledge of beacon use. Make this an impulse purchase as someone said and now we have a bunch of gapers wearing them in bounds with no idea they need to turn them off. Rescues are a complete cluster fuck of confusion, adrenaline and not a lot of organization. This just does not sound like a good idea to me.
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05-22-2012, 02:29 PM #36Hugh Conway Guest
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05-22-2012, 03:06 PM #37
I could see a transmit-only beacon working for clients on guided heli skiing, no? They are not responsible for rescues nor are they trained for such.
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05-22-2012, 03:23 PM #38Gel-powered Tech bindings
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Mo' skimo here: NE Rando Race Series
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05-22-2012, 03:37 PM #39Move upside and let the man go through...
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05-22-2012, 03:44 PM #40
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05-22-2012, 03:51 PM #41
There are cases of clients saving guides and of clients saving clients.
Originally Posted by blurred
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05-22-2012, 03:57 PM #42Gel-powered Tech bindings
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The first time I ever "used" a beacon was for a day of heli skiing back in 1992 in New Zealand.
But I sure hope protocols have changed since then, as we were all in strictly victim-only mode: no probe, no shovel, no idea how to switch over to Search, or even Off IIRC. (I do remember though walking by a guide one-by-one so that he could confirm that each of us was transmitting -- I found the entire exercise to be kind of neat-o, but knowing absolutely nothing about avalanches, I was completely oblivious to how inadequately prepared we all were.)
I'm pretty sure our group -- of maybe 7 or so? -- had only one guide, with no tail guide.
Almost 20 years later, the website states:
"In the field all our guests are equipped with Avalanche transcievers [sic] and recieve a comprehensive safety briefing in their use before skiing and riding commences."Mo' skimo here: NE Rando Race Series
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05-22-2012, 04:09 PM #43
^^^^
Good thing your sample size of one Heli company in NZ holds true for every outfit.Move upside and let the man go through...
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05-22-2012, 04:17 PM #44Gel-powered Tech bindings
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By no means did I intend to imply that this is typical of heli operations -- I was just relating one personal example, way back from 1992, which unfortunately seems to still be true for that particular operation.
I have absolutely no idea what the typical setup is for heli ops, whether in NZ or elsewhere.
I am surprised though that any heli op would be charging that much yet not investing in a fleet of basic 20-liter-ish packs, each equipped with probe & shovel. (Given that they could be sold at the end of each season for about the fleet purchase rate, the net financial cost would be zero.)
I did though check out a few BC snowcat ops websites last year out of curiosity to see whether shovel-less skiers were allowed. (This was after that video initially appeared of the Ontario skier who went into the tree well, with only one shovel available - the very small Voile XLM -- to help dig him out.) Seemed like the typical setup was to stock a few packs (with probes and shovels) for guests, then if nobody on the tour was already equipped, a couple guests in the group would have to carry a probe + shovel pack.Mo' skimo here: NE Rando Race Series
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05-22-2012, 04:25 PM #45
This is thread drift, since in no situation I can come up with does a transmit only beacon make sense.
But yeah, some of my early trips (~94-95 ish) the guide had a full kit and the clients took turns being tail gunner with a second probe/shovel pack. But all of my experiences in Helis (4 different outfits) we had to show basic knowledge of how to search with a beacon and locate a buried one prior to flying.Move upside and let the man go through...
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05-22-2012, 04:38 PM #46
Let's not go back in time 20 years in professionalism, technology, and safety. I like my Pulse, my DPS Skis, and my multi-core multi-gig-RAM intranets machine.
Any guide worth their salt makes sure their clients have the tools and at least a crude knowledge. Not giving them rescue tools removes the possibility of their helping, and with it, any shred of responsibility and risk realization that might be rattling around in their customer brains. That is just my opinion, but that mindset has led to clients saving clients and saving guides.Originally Posted by blurred
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05-22-2012, 05:36 PM #47Cham-wow!
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Read the comments by 'AndyT' in this thread: http://forums.ski.com.au/forums/ubbt...04#Post1653304
Wow.
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05-22-2012, 06:10 PM #48Gel-powered Tech bindings
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I think the only good to come out of this is that I learned a new word today:
http://www.melbourne.vic.gov.au/ente...Spruiking.aspx
Spruiking and touting
As part of the Street Activity Policy 2011, City of Melbourne regulates ‘spruiking’ conducted in the public place by retail businesses and their employees.
All businesses within the City of Melbourne that employ staff to spruik outside their premises must either hold a permit or only employ spruikers who have a permit. Amplified spruiking is banned unless exceptional circumstances apply and it has been approved.
What is spruiking?
Spruiking is using a human voice to generally promote goods or services to passing pedestrians on a street or in a public place. This is different to touting, which involves standing in front of a business and enticing or propositioning individuals to enter the premises and purchase goods. Touting is not permitted under the Activities Local Law 2009 anywhere within the City of Melbourne municipality.Mo' skimo here: NE Rando Race Series
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05-22-2012, 06:12 PM #49Cham-wow!
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When I went heliskiing in New Zealand we had a group of 4, all with full kit and the guide remarked that she felt better knowing we all had shovels & probes. This operation typically has a tail gunner shovel/probe pack that is shared through the day.
We also had to do a mock search prior to day 1 - a basic transceiver search and also assembling our probes and shovels.
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05-22-2012, 06:45 PM #50Hugh Conway Guest
Damn straight! Everyone needs the latest greatest Lesbo9000 to be a true core summit county skier! A1 Summit!
Mofro - because not everyone is a seattle yuppie or a tgr yuppie with $$$$ to burn
I'd much rather full function beacons drop in price, but that doesn't seem to be in the cards really. Oh well. Now for the iVibe innabled beacon
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