What's more dangerous... Road biking or DH mtb

**icelanticskier** · 05-24-2012, 06:00 AM

Originally Posted by Particle

And then most of us have skiing to put this all in perspective, which generally falls into the road category of "less common little injuries, occasional massive injuries/death." Especially when we're talking backcountry travel... it kind of reminds me of road risk. There are things you can do to mitigate, but sometimes you're just hosed by outside factors (drivers, avalanches).

no one is "hosed" by avalanches. avalanches injure/kill those that choose to travel in avalanche terrain in unstable conditions. that is a choice. can't really compare road riding to backcountry skiing. there are no drunk or texting trees, cliffs, terrain traps, or avalanches in the bc. if you're mindful of your surroundings/conditions and travel/ski carefully, there's really no reason for mishaps.

rog

**frorider** · 05-24-2012, 08:58 AM

agree with many of the points made above, which is one of many reasons why mtn biking will always be my favorite type of biking. road bike can be nice in April when the mtn bike trails are covered in snow but there's a massive warm spell.

a while back I read an interesting study that looked at factors influencing whether a car driver truly sees (as in notices from behind) a solo biker riding on the hiway shoulder. conclusion was that advanced roadies, who tend to ride in a perfect, smoove straight line, are much less noticeable than a beginner rider who weaves and wobbles. Anecdotally I've noticed this tends to be true -- our eyes pick up on horizontal movements from far away. For example, those foot-long red ribbons nailed on to wood beams sticking out the back of a flatbed truck--you notice those things fluttering around. So I have bright orange surveyors' tape tied to the back of my road bike seat. I ride road so infrequently, and on relatively safe roads, that I'm not too worried about getting bumped by an SUV, but who knows.

**Benny Profane** · 05-24-2012, 11:15 AM

Originally Posted by frorider

agree with many of the points made above, which is one of many reasons why mtn biking will always be my favorite type of biking. road bike can be nice in April when the mtn bike trails are covered in snow but there's a massive warm spell.

a while back I read an interesting study that looked at factors influencing whether a car driver truly sees (as in notices from behind) a solo biker riding on the hiway shoulder. conclusion was that advanced roadies, who tend to ride in a perfect, smoove straight line, are much less noticeable than a beginner rider who weaves and wobbles. Anecdotally I've noticed this tends to be true -- our eyes pick up on horizontal movements from far away. For example, those foot-long red ribbons nailed on to wood beams sticking out the back of a flatbed truck--you notice those things fluttering around. So I have bright orange surveyors' tape tied to the back of my road bike seat. I ride road so infrequently, and on relatively safe roads, that I'm not too worried about getting bumped by an SUV, but who knows.

I wear pretty obnoxious colors, like bright orange and, what Pearl Izumi calls "screaming yellow". The latter I know pops out from a great distance. And thank you, lighting manufacturers, for the new, tiny, but powerful flashing lights, like the Flea.

**marshalolson** · 05-24-2012, 12:01 PM

roadies push their limits descending mountains too, just like dh'ers. try keeping up with a pro roadie on lookout mtn in golden, co or flagstaff in boulder for example. those dudes are riding at 60+ mph on roads designed to be driven at 15-20mph. that is JUST as dangerous as shredding on a dh bike, sending big boy 40 foot gaps, etc. and they have the same likelyhood of crashing etc. and i saw just as many (if not more) injuries to the roadies getting after it as the DHers out getting after it.

the difference is you have a football suit and moto helmet on DH;ing and roadies are basically naked.

my point is that if you are NOT pushing the envelope of speed on a road bike, you are more likely to get hurt, in a far more serious way, than if you are riding a DH bike, but equally NOT pushing the envelope.

**awf170** · 05-24-2012, 12:31 PM

Did you wreck off the last drop on NE style at like 3pm on Saturday? If so, I saw you getting dragged out. Definitely glad to here you're okay. Always a scary site.

**emr** · 05-24-2012, 02:00 PM

^^^^ that was me. It's always fun getting loaded onto a back board with a chairlift full of spectators... Good stuff. I'll be back at it, with more protective gear, in a couple weeks. I hope to get that drop by the end of the summer.

**icelanticskier** · 05-24-2012, 06:20 PM

Originally Posted by emr

^^^^ that was me. It's always fun getting loaded onto a back board with a chairlift full of spectators... Good stuff. I'll be back at it, with more protective gear, in a couple weeks. I hope to get that drop by the end of the summer.

um, maybe pack a brain 1st. with your list of injuries, past and present, maybe knitting or reading would be better choice.

rog

**Benny Profane** · 05-24-2012, 07:00 PM

Originally Posted by marshalolson

the difference is you have a football suit and moto helmet on DH;ing and roadies are basically naked.

Yeah, pretty much. Road burn totally sucks.

**marshalolson** · 05-24-2012, 07:10 PM

and for the record, dirt jumping is more dangerous than DH'ing and road riding combined.

**DAFTC** · 07-07-2012, 01:02 PM

Bump. This thread is useless without pics.

Having always been a helmet wearer, on and off road, despite skepticism that a layer of foam would prove much value under the typical forces involved, I'm pretty happy to report that mine functioned admirably upon its rider being launched by a 50mph rear impact. I'm glad to trade my ear torn up by straps for paralysis...

Frorider, the surveyors' tape suggestion seems like a pretty good one, being that I'm always just riding for cardio and/or the scenery.

**that dude who did that thing** · 07-07-2012, 01:12 PM

What's teh story with that leg? Is that missing skin at the top of your calf?

As to helemts, to me it has always seemed a pretty simple calculus: until the odds of the helmet actually exacerbating the injury are greater than the odds of the helmet preventing or reducing the injury, I'll wear one. I am not one of those people who will take greater risk just because I have the helemt and I know this because I rode road for years without one, and only started wearing one when I became a more cautious rider. YMMV

**DAFTC** · 07-07-2012, 01:42 PM

Originally Posted by Jamespio

What's teh story with that leg? Is that missing skin at the top of your calf?

Bumper induced "degloving".
The layer that looks like mesh is a skin graft (apparently very healthy, believe it or not).
Modern wonders.

**Benny Profane** · 07-07-2012, 06:27 PM

holy shit.

**Jethro** · 07-09-2012, 12:30 AM

Back around '74, my second grade teacher was killed on Independence pass, Colorado in a bike/car collision. This summer one of my dad's younger friends hit a pothole as he looked at a coyote on the side of the road. He shattered his helmet, broke his clavicle and broke 8 ribs, requiring surgery. I think he had a punctured lung also. A few years ago a guy I know passed a car on a double yellow line while he was going fast down hill. He was braking wind for a group and did not want to slow down. The car had slowed to turn onto the shoulder on the other side and had not signaled. The cause of the accident was deemed to be the cyclist. He went into a guard rail and fucked himself up pretty good

My point is that I think too many of you are quick to blame the car driver and assume the cyclist is not at fault. That can be the case, but too often we do ourselves in.

Having said that, on a street bike or road bike, you learn pretty quickly to drive like you are invisible.

**awf170** · 07-09-2012, 07:32 PM

Add one to the road biking category. Been a 80+ day a year mountain biker for the last 4 years and never have anything too serious. Starting road biking a month or so ago, and have only done like 5ish rides. Today I was just riding along down a not very busy street and someone trying to take a left coming from the other direction just came right out and pegged me. Middle of the day, good light, no hidden corners. He just flat out drove right into me since he didn't look. Was doing about 25mph when he hit me. Hit his hood and when flying into the air somersaulting (I think I did a full flip, but I'm not positive, it all happened so fast). Somehow I walked away with just minor bruising/scraping. Some pretty terrifying shit nonetheless.

BTW, I did manage to dent his hood and completely break his side mirror off!

**Honey** · 07-09-2012, 10:27 PM

Originally Posted by awf170

Add one to the road biking category. Been a 80+ day a year mountain biker for the last 4 years and never have anything too serious. Starting road biking a month or so ago, and have only done like 5ish rides. Today I was just riding along down a not very busy street and someone trying to take a left coming from the other direction just came right out and pegged me. Middle of the day, good light, no hidden corners. He just flat out drove right into me since he didn't look. Was doing about 25mph when he hit me. Hit his hood and when flying into the air somersaulting (I think I did a full flip, but I'm not positive, it all happened so fast). Somehow I walked away with just minor bruising/scraping. Some pretty terrifying shit nonetheless.

BTW, I did manage to dent his hood and completely break his side mirror off!

First and foremost, glad to hear you're all right. Drivers in New England couldnt be more disrespectful or self involved if they tried.
Second, if I were you I'd probably stay in Lynn Woods. Hell I'd considering throwing my bike on my car to get there even if I lived around the corner. I enjoy pushing a road bike into corners and its an exceptionally useful mode of transportation but damn is it terrifying in some places.

what they teach or at least what I learned in drivers ed turns out to be moderately useful on a bike, and by that I mean everyone is more of an idiot than the idiot I thought they were. As long as you remember you have no rights, people suck at life, and the jerk off pos who's driving up the price of health insurance cause he/she sucks cunt for quarters absolutely doesnt give a shit if he/she hits you while on the phone (tangent: now especially w/ texting, something like 3000 deaths last year, you gotta be kidding me, i'm not sure how much more dumb people can get but using the loch ness monster to disprove evolution is pretty terrifying) unless you dent their car. Then they get pissy. Again, first and foremost glad to hear you're alright and in that case glad to hear you dented the car. When I first started riding on the road seriously my dad told me 'they're 2 kinds of cyclists, those that have been hit by cars and those that haven't been hit by cars yet.' welcome to the club, it's fun just try to stay safe and not to get too aggravated it's not worth it and if you do, you can always get some cheap clay, make some bits with rough edges and when they harden they'll be better then flipping someone the bird.

**awf170** · 07-10-2012, 06:23 AM

Originally Posted by Honey

First and foremost, glad to hear you're all right. Drivers in New England couldnt be more disrespectful or self involved if they tried.
Second, if I were you I'd probably stay in Lynn Woods. Hell I'd considering throwing my bike on my car to get there even if I lived around the corner. I enjoy pushing a road bike into corners and its an exceptionally useful mode of transportation but damn is it terrifying in some places.

what they teach or at least what I learned in drivers ed turns out to be moderately useful on a bike, and by that I mean everyone is more of an idiot than the idiot I thought they were. As long as you remember you have no rights, people suck at life, and the jerk off pos who's driving up the price of health insurance cause he/she sucks cunt for quarters absolutely doesnt give a shit if he/she hits you while on the phone (tangent: now especially w/ texting, something like 3000 deaths last year, you gotta be kidding me, i'm not sure how much more dumb people can get but using the loch ness monster to disprove evolution is pretty terrifying) unless you dent their car. Then they get pissy. Again, first and foremost glad to hear you're alright and in that case glad to hear you dented the car. When I first started riding on the road seriously my dad told me 'they're 2 kinds of cyclists, those that have been hit by cars and those that haven't been hit by cars yet.' welcome to the club, it's fun just try to stay safe and not to get too aggravated it's not worth it and if you do, you can always get some cheap clay, make some bits with rough edges and when they harden they'll be better then flipping someone the bird.

Yep, going to stick to driving the 4 miles to Lynn woods then doing big drops and crazy steep rollers, still safer than riding on the road. At least I only have myself to blame if something goes wrong.

And I try to ride like no one is paying attention and they're all assholes, that the scary part. The guy was stopped waiting to take a left turn off of the main road. He just turned right into me. If I stop for every car that was trying to pull out or turn left I would be stopping every 100 yards. Anyway, after this I'm going to have to say fuck road riding in eastern MA. Definitely not buying a road bike again until I live somewhere with less traffic and better drivers.

By the way, what's the deal with claiming insurance on my bike? Can I do that? The bike is completely trashed. Granted it was pretty shitty and old, but it would nice to at least get a few hundred for it.

**Anospa** · 07-10-2012, 06:55 AM

That sucks dude! That's my exact reason for not owning a motorcycle or road riding (the woods are more fun anyways). I always figure if I screw up something and get hurt mountain biking, its all on me and I can deal with that and not push it when I feel out of it.

I just did my first commute to work on bike today and had no issues thankfully. I remember learning somewhere (maybe friends in high school that ran track) that you should always make eye contact when approaching cars, people will tend to slow down. I had a few moments today when I thought people were going to to turn into me and it wasn't the most fun feeling. Hope you're able to sort something out with insurance.

**bbense** · 07-10-2012, 08:02 AM

Originally Posted by lph

I would bet that road biking sees more fatalities per rider days and more serious injuries but i have never searched the literature.

Not even close, every stat I can find says road biking is actually safer than driving your car per hour of activity. People perceive road biking as dangerous because when shit does happen, it is generally pretty bad and it is generally out of the rider's control.

But statistics in this case are meaningless when you try and apply them to an individual's choice, it has to do with the person's approach to the sport. You take risks, you will eventually lose. The trick is to keep the risks low so something else kills you first. Since the whole point of DH seems to be pushing your personal risk limits, I'd guess you are much more likely to get minor injuries along the way.

The safety of road biking depends a lot on the rider and his approach to the sport. A healthy dose of paranoia about cars and drivers and a basic assumption that your are invisible will
go a long ways towards keeping you safer. After 35 years, I feel pretty confident that road biking is a reasonably safe sport for me WHERE I RIDE and I would have a much greater risk of injury in MTB.
I still MTB, but I'm pretty cautious. But the answer isn't the same for everybody, I'm lucky enough to live somewhere where drivers generally see bikers.

**ACHTUNG** · 07-10-2012, 08:38 AM

The first time I went off the final ladder drop on NE Style I stuck the landing but then hit the kicker just after the drop with way too much speed and ended up eating tons of shit. I got some good yelps from the chairlift. Good times, good times.

**DAFTC** · 07-10-2012, 11:05 AM

Originally Posted by awf170

BTW, I did manage to dent his hood and completely break his side mirror off!

x2 on the side mirror removal! Very glad you were able to walk away...

[TLDR bed-ridden Insurance hijack]
W/r/t to insurance, there are several old threads discussing that here as well as various other bike forums, but the short version is that you should definitely be able to make a claim or claims. All insurance will distinguish the bike (as property) from your injury-related costs (as liability/medical). I wouldn't rule out medical claims, especially after less than a day. Give yourself some time, as some stuff may not show up immediately.

If you feel you have report/citation/pics/etc. to prove the driver was clearly at fault, start with his/her policy (you did get that info right?). If not, you may still be able to get something from your renters'/homeowners/auto depending on your deductible, your exact policy and whether you're only hoping to recoup property costs. Take pics and take the bike to a good LBS for an independent repair/replace estimate, as any adjustor will want that before they start negotiating whether they're going to pay replacement value or some depreciated actual cash value (loosely, what you might have gotten if you tried to sell the bike).

Regardless, be prepared for a somewhat lengthy and possibly unpleasant experience that can sometimes end well. Also, although I'd be very careful before going this route, if you're sure you only want a few hundred dollars for a new bike, then you may want to try to just handle things directly with the person who hit you. Again assuming you're not going to be dealing with back/neck issues down the line, it may feel a lot simpler, faster and more satisfying.
[/Hijack]

Also, this thread still needs more pics, especially some of these specific DH features creating havoc..

**awf170** · 07-10-2012, 12:36 PM

Originally Posted by DAFTC

x2 on the side mirror removal! Very glad you were able to walk away...

[TLDR bed-ridden Insurance hijack]
W/r/t to insurance, there are several old threads discussing that here as well as various other bike forums, but the short version is that you should definitely be able to make a claim or claims. All insurance will distinguish the bike (as property) from your injury-related costs (as liability/medical). I wouldn't rule out medical claims, especially after less than a day. Give yourself some time, as some stuff may not show up immediately.

If you feel you have report/citation/pics/etc. to prove the driver was clearly at fault, start with his/her policy (you did get that info right?). If not, you may still be able to get something from your renters'/homeowners/auto depending on your deductible, your exact policy and whether you're only hoping to recoup property costs. Take pics and take the bike to a good LBS for an independent repair/replace estimate, as any adjustor will want that before they start negotiating whether they're going to pay replacement value or some depreciated actual cash value (loosely, what you might have gotten if you tried to sell the bike).

Regardless, be prepared for a somewhat lengthy and possibly unpleasant experience that can sometimes end well. Also, although I'd be very careful before going this route, if you're sure you only want a few hundred dollars for a new bike, then you may want to try to just handle things directly with the person who hit you. Again assuming you're not going to be dealing with back/neck issues down the line, it may feel a lot simpler, faster and more satisfying.
[/Hijack]

Also, this thread still needs more pics, especially some of these specific DH features creating havoc..

Thanks! And I did actually go to the hospital afterwards, was pretty shaken up and figured it was worth it just to make sure I was okay. I have all of his insurance info, and I gave it all to the hospital. So hopefully that will be completed covered by his insurance without too much hassle. Also, the guy who hit me completed admitted fault and I also had a witness.

I'm going to grab the bike from the police station tomorrow (they couldn't fit it in the ambulance) and assess the damages. It was an old junker (with a few nicer upgraded parts) I bought from a friend for like a $150 so I won't expect too much, but I figure it will be worth a quick shot. Anyway, thanks again for the help.

And not a DH feature, but it's the best I got from the eating shit catalog. Me trying to get up 3 foot high step and not getting my front wheel high enough.

**Honey** · 07-10-2012, 01:44 PM

wrt to insurance: go through the insurance companies. You can claim some pain and suffering to get cash and get his insurance to buy you a replacement bike (which could you turn around and sell).

**Hicks** · 07-11-2012, 11:30 AM

Originally Posted by bbense

The safety of road biking depends a lot on the rider and his approach to the sport. A healthy dose of paranoia about cars and drivers and a basic assumption that your are invisible will go a long ways towards keeping you safer.

THIS....

There are always exceptions from the rule but glad I am evenly fortunate about car drivers in general respecting cyclists where I live and ride.

**baron** · 07-13-2012, 02:10 PM

Originally Posted by DAFTC

Bump. This thread is useless without pics.

Having always been a helmet wearer, on and off road, despite skepticism that a layer of foam would prove much value under the typical forces involved, I'm pretty happy to report that mine functioned admirably upon its rider being launched by a 50mph rear impact. I'm glad to trade my ear torn up by straps for paralysis
Frorider, the surveyors' tape suggestion seems like a pretty good one, being that I'm always just riding for cardio and/or the scenery.

...
I like destiny, to be,in my brake lever using,speed controlling hands