Thread: 2013 Praxis Skis

bump because of the preorder sale + 10% off code ... for anyone who has wallet control issues ...

I kinda wish I had some Yeti's in the quiver as well, but hard to justify ... I have a 78-waisted touring ski that weighs 3 pounds/ski, and the 106-waisted BC at 4 pounds/ski ... do I really need the Yeti? I guess 3 dynafit setups would match my 3 splitboards in my closet ...

Tutoko, magne traction has been on skis. Look up the Narrow Ass Snowboard. I bet you it works like a champ in a refrozen couloir when you're standing up top waiting for a sucker hole but the corn transition never comes. I think I read that Praxis tested this on some other models last year and it seemed to be well received.

Also, just to get folks stoked - here's a mini review of the 2012 BCs:

I bought 180 BCs last fall that I only got a few days on due to injury and lack of snow. Mounted with Radical Speeds - the setup is really light for its size. Not Greg Hill Stoke light, but it still feels great when skinning with mixed mohair skins. Drove them with BD Methods/Factor 110s. Overall, I think that was a really well-balanced setup. So light under the feet or on your pack - hardly notice it - and power transfer through the Dynafits felt great, way better than Rossi Axial alpine bindings I had on another setup.

I skied them down a couple of Cascades within the last month, in dry pow, wet pow, mank, yogurt, corn, and crap - and a whiteout line though a rock garden where I hit a shitload of sharks. I'm not much of a skier, but these things were both fun and durable. Considering the rocks I hit, there were only 2 signs of glancing blows to the base and nothing on the edges - in fact, even detuning the factory tune took more work than I expected because the edges are so bomber. Construction quality is great. The skis were super fun on low-angle hero corn or pow (just about the only snow I know how to ski right now) and felt very dynamic throwing them from edge to edge. My own problem is figuring out how to stay up in front and ski them, not snowboard them ...

Any beta on the BPS?

Anyone care to discuss pros / cons to the carbon fiber lay-up option? Is this "lay-up" just a sheet of carbon fiber on top of the core (totally separate from core) instead of fiber glass? It sounds quite different from DPS or others with carbon built into (in hybrid case) or in place of the wood core, but I could be confused. Also, any word on average weight savings for the lay-up on a 190-ish ski?

the weight saving with carbon is huge, you need only half of the weight to create the same stiffness. keiths layup, with carbon on top totally makes sense. with only carbon you get kind of a glassy feeling, but with fiberglass it makes a ski very smooth and damp, by reducing the weight. the full carbon cores don't have advantages in my eyes, the skis feel very strange. real racing skis (i mean bode miller) still have woodcores, fiberglass and carbon, sometimes titanal for the downhill skis.
learned all this the hard way by building skis myself ... now i buy praxis - keith knows what he is doing.

carbon on top makes sense, because carbon works best when pressed (don't know the correct wording in english, sorry), fiberglass works best when streched. In skis you have a top and a bottom layer, the top layer gets compressed, the bottom layer gets streched. So of course it's better to put the materials according to their abilities in it.

Just to correct what is plain wrong here. Both carbon and glass fibre composites work in exactly the same way. They are allied fibers in a resin matrix. When it is compressed (pressed ) you only get basically the properties of the resin. When it is put in tension (stretched) you get the properties of the fibers themselves. This is why the layup in a ski is important of triaxial weave sheet and uni sheet. The get fibers in the right direction to resist both bending and torsion whilst minimizing weight.

So an interesting pint is that the composites above the core are mainly in compression, so doing little. They resist flexing in the uncambering direction, or opposite to how a ski is flexed in a turn. I am told it is good to "match" the layers above and below the core as it is better in e manufacturing process to achieve balance.

I have never really understood it though, the fibers under the core are the ones doing the work by a normal bending model.

you need to consider torsional rigidity for the top sheets.

and yes, the correct correlation between top and under sheets is important or the ski turns out twisted.

while the carbon material itself is slightly lighter than glass, its stiffer too, meaning you can make a thinner ski, use less wood, and save weight there. pre-preg is lighter than wet-layup since the uni material itself is lighter by a small bit, but you don't have to add additional resin, so that is the biggest weight savings.

Yes for sure on torsion, but why bother with any longitudinal fibers on top of the core, and just use 45's?

Anyone know the ending date for the preseason sale? I've decided I need a pair of yetis, but want to put it off as long as I can..

Originally Posted by CaliBrit

Yes for sure on torsion, but why bother with any longitudinal fibers on top of the core, and just use 45's?

Because you still have conditions where the fibers will be tensioned. Think landing on the top of a mogul. Skis undergo tension in both directions, although, yes they do experience much more tension on the bottom layer. Matching top and bottom layers ensures consistent camber and a flat surface.

A lot of people claim to feel a difference between the way a ski feels with carbon on top vs the bottom or both.

Originally Posted by JayPowHound

Anyone know the ending date for the preseason sale? I've decided I need a pair of yetis, but want to put it off as long as I can..

August 1st is the last day of the presale if im not mistaken.
Anyone have any idea how the BPS ski? I am really interested in them but want to hear some reviews before I pull the trigger.

Originally Posted by doughboyshredder

Because you still have conditions where the fibers will be tensioned.

Not to mention damping ... seems like that's a real effect of the top layup?


Man I wish I could justify me some Yetis ...

Originally Posted by ecskier7

August 1st is the last day of the presale if im not mistaken.
Anyone have any idea how the BPS ski? I am really interested in them but want to hear some reviews before I pull the trigger.

IMO the BPS pretty much what you'd expect. It has plenty of edge, but is nicely loose when you want it to be. It seems to like pretty chargy style. There was a guy from Switzerland (I think) who posted some nice videos of skiing on a few big days. Had both Powder Boards and BPS out IIRC. I think the videos are somewhere here, but can also be found linked on the Praxis site and maybe vimeo IIRC.

I don't recall a review, but he just raved about the BPS. I like the BPS, but when it gets deep, I prefer a Powder Board or Protest. I use the Concept as my all mountain day to day ski. And the BPS shows those roots. If I were skiing more variable snow on bigger days, or if I were more limited in quiver choices, I'd be more excited about the BPS. But as snow around here gets deeper, I tend not to worry about edge so much and shift from the Concept (which is insanely capable across a very wide range of conditions) to the Protest or Powder Boards. But like I said, depending on style preference or snow variability, the BPS can be a big win.

The one thing I'd say is that the BPS skis pretty "big". I've skied both sizes and for day to day skiing I'd go with the shorter one - still tons of surface area and tons of edge and stability. I'd do the big one if I were more aggressive than I am or if I were running it out in the open where I could really let it go.

quick edit update: forgot to mention that, as usual, construction is ridiculously top notch

Originally Posted by doughboyshredder

Because you still have conditions where the fibers will be tensioned. Think landing on the top of a mogul. Skis undergo tension in both directions, although, yes they do experience much more tension on the bottom layer. Matching top and bottom layers ensures consistent camber and a flat surface.

A lot of people claim to feel a difference between the way a ski feels with carbon on top vs the bottom or both.

dbs you are right on target because riding on carbon is hard. also nice to know you care enough to comment on my most favorite ski builder thread.
love my praxis

Just pulled the trigger on some 187 protests medium/stiff flex with the carbon layup with the BPS topsheet and I am going to put dukes on them. I am so stoked to use them next winter.

Damn, lineup is looking good. Have protests and bm110's, dream of yetis, bc's and the woo 2.0.

KidWoo (or others), do you have any info on the changes for the wootest for this year?

Awesome looking lineup. I love all of the options they give the buyer. Nicely played Praxis!!

Originally Posted by Onward

Damn, lineup is looking good. Have protests and bm110's, dream of yetis, bc's and the woo 2.0.

KidWoo (or others), do you have any info on the changes for the wootest for this year?

I know that Woo's list of desired changes are on the blistergearreview long-term test writeup, but I don't know if info about which ones finally got adopted and which ones didn't are written up anywhere.

Originally Posted by CaliBrit

Just to correct what is plain wrong here. Both carbon and glass fibre composites work in exactly the same way. They are allied fibers in a resin matrix. When it is compressed (pressed ) you only get basically the properties of the resin. When it is put in tension (stretched) you get the properties of the fibers themselves. This is why the layup in a ski is important of triaxial weave sheet and uni sheet. The get fibers in the right direction to resist both bending and torsion whilst minimizing weight.

So an interesting pint is that the composites above the core are mainly in compression, so doing little. They resist flexing in the uncambering direction, or opposite to how a ski is flexed in a turn. I am told it is good to "match" the layers above and below the core as it is better in e manufacturing process to achieve balance.

I have never really understood it though, the fibers under the core are the ones doing the work by a normal bending model.

sorry I didn't articulate myself correctly, probably my lacking english ... you are right about the "pressing" (still looking for the correct wording), from my experience I think I can tell that it makes a big difference on where to place which material. To really stiffen a ski by only using fiberglass you add it on top for exemple. To make stiff skis you usually use a thicker core (the torsion box gets bigger), with carbon you save from the bigger core and the heavier fiberglass.

Anybody have any time on the MVP's? Looks like a good shape, has me interested.

Originally Posted by flowing alpy

dbs you are right on target because riding on carbon is hard. also nice to know you care enough to comment on my most favorite ski builder thread.
love my praxis

Well I agree if we're talking full carbon like the DPS nano- I tried a 99 last seasonand it felt like a rollerskate. They were fun but it was like there was nothing there at all. Actually quite unnerving for me. I didn't like them at all. Now my hybrid Worth Daily Breads- Praxis skis anyways- are fucking bomber and feel like missiles under your feet. I'd go hybrid any day just because it's the best of both worlds, but that's just my .02. I really, really like the snap and lightness of carbon with the dampness of a glass and really don't see myself straying from hybrid construction in the future.


God Keith's lineup is so damn sexy, if I ever hit the lottery I'm just going to buy one of everything... Forever.

Only one?

FYI - spoke with Keith on the weight savings that can be expected with the carbon layup. He said he is trying to knock off roughly ~1/2 a pound with the carbon layup vs. fiberglass on a ski with the same flex rating. I'm assuming this also depends a bit on the ski in question. In any case, this makes skis that were already fairly light meaningfully lighter. Hell yes.

to correct something said earlier...the ads on Freeskier indicate the pre-order sales lasts through August 10th

Slightly off-topic, but does anybody have some footage of skiing the Protest? I'm so close to ordering a pair, having had an irrational attraction to them for the past year, but I'd really like to see them in action.

They seem to be some international ski of mystery; everybody raves about them, yet there are hardly any reviews (but thank you Blister) and no footage that I've been able to dig up.

Thanks gentlemen