Thread: REVIEW: 12/13 Nordica Helldorado

I've spent a good amount of time now on the 193 Helldorado and 193 Patron, a bit less time on the 185 Helldorado, and just a day on the 185 Patron.

http://blistergearreview.com/gear-re...ica-helldorado

The Helldorado isn't quite what I was expecting - it's an excellent ski in consistent conditions, but less capable than I was expecting in terms of rallying through variable stuff at high speed.

I need to put up a review I have the 185 helldorado and love that ski I think its one of the best all around skis I have been on, kills groomers good in pow and I thought it killed crud. Im also fat so that may help.

Evidently, you're also a Yeti, so that might help, too.

Interested to hear your experience in chop on the 185s, especially since I imagine you ski at the Bird or Alta. For both Jason and me, crud / chop performance ranged from pretty unsettling to terrifying, for the reasons I stated.

I have skied XXL and Moment Bibbys in crud In the same season a few year back the xxls blew threw stuff but If I got thrown forward you could go over the handle bars. On the bibbys I loved the rocker keeping the tips from diving and a more balanced stance. For me the helldorado can pound through it but also float over the crud as well. I will say crud was a huge difference between the skis I built with Bluehouse (they are a pound lighter) and the helldorado's I will say are better in the crud.

Thanks for the review. I really wanted to like these skis with the murdered out topsheets.

On the High Traverse at Alta, Jason speared a bump more than once and went over the handlebars, and he and I both ended up with a number of instances of tip dive in variable snow and tip spearing in bumped-up terrain.

And I thought it was just me.

I have not harpooned a bump in years, but demoed the Helldorados and left one sticking in a bump. Not sure if the heel pre-released and I would have blown through it if I stuck to the ski, but the ski was definitely embedded ~1 foot into the bump and I was 10 feet downhill with the wind knocked out of me and a cracked rib. I used to be indifferent about low tipped skis, and its odd that this would do this with such a soft tip.

I chalked it up to a freak incident but maybe...

Originally Posted by Kim Jong-un

Thanks for the review. I really wanted to like these skis with the murdered out topsheets.

On the High Traverse at Alta, Jason speared a bump more than once and went over the handlebars, and he and I both ended up with a number of instances of tip dive in variable snow and tip spearing in bumped-up terrain.

And I thought it was just me.

I have not harpooned a bump in years, but demoed the Helldorados and left one sticking in a bump. Not sure if the heel pre-released and I would have blown through it if I stuck to the ski, but the ski was definitely embedded ~1 foot into the bump and I was 10 feet downhill with the wind knocked out of me and a cracked rib. I used to be indifferent about low tipped skis, and its odd that this would do this with such a soft tip.

I chalked it up to a freak incident but maybe...

Definitely not just you, Kim Jong-un. We spent a good amount of time on these skis, and it was a recurring issue. And it would be relatively easy to address.

Thanks for the review.
Really disappointed to read about the soft tip and tail. You'd think Nordica would know better.
The whole point of rocker is to have a stiff tip that surfs over variable!
It's gonna be the Ruby for a while anyway, but still great review. Nordica better stiffen it up for 13/14, I guess.

Originally Posted by stuckathuntermtn

The whole point of rocker is to have a stiff tip that surfs over variable!

This. That shape makes it so easy, why soften it up too? I've been waiting for a burlier 5-point. Looks like the wait continues (I know, I should try the BG).

One thing I really enjoyed about my enforcers was the stiff tail. Makes a ski stable, even with a lot of sidecut, and I agree with the author's opinion that it makes it more forgiving, since you can recover/steer from the back seat.
The soft tip is ok, but mine are pre rocker. They sort of just develop early rise because of the 2 sheets of metal and soft tip.
Don't know why anyone makes a soft tip that is also heavily rockered. Seems counterproductive.

Sent from my cell phone. no, a cell phone.

Originally Posted by stuckathuntermtn

One thing I really enjoyed about my enforcers was the stiff tail. Makes a ski stable, even with a lot of sidecut, and I agree with the author's opinion that it makes it more forgiving, since you can recover/steer from the back seat.
The soft tip is ok, but mine are pre rocker. They sort of just develop early rise because of the 2 sheets of metal and soft tip.
Don't know why anyone makes a soft tip that is also heavily rockered. Seems counterproductive.

Sent from my cell phone. no, a cell phone.

Yeah, I mean obviously, there comes a point where an extremely stiff tail will also penalize you for getting back a bit, but this tail is very soft, and there is a lot of room to make it stiffer, more stable, and hence, more forgiving.

If I had to rank the three tweaks I'd like to see, I'd set the order like this:

1) curve the tip a bit so that the skis are less prone to spearing stuff
2) stiffen up the tail and give it a more gradual, less hinge-like flex profile
3) stiffen up the tip a little.

For me, if you do #1, then #3 becomes less of an issue.
If you do #1 and #2, then #3 would be even less of an issue.
And if you do #1, #2, and #3 I would want to go buy this ski right now.

Originally Posted by JFE24

And if you do #1, #2, and #3 I would want to go buy this ski right now.

Why? How would they fit into your quiver? What kind of skier do you think these would work best for?

I read the review (couple times now), and I'm just not seeing it.

1) Because these skis are already extremely good on hardpack, and none of my proposed adjustments would diminish that.

2) The ski would charge, but it wouldn't be a total beast. With my adjustments, you'd have a ski that would react a bit more like the 190cm Bibby Pro (at 118mm underfoot) or the Rossi Squad 7 (120mm underfoot) but in a 113mm waist. I love the Bibby and the Squad and could find room for a narrower, similar ski.

3) Personally, I really like the shape / sidecut of the tail on the Patron and Helldorado. That wasn't the issue, the flex pattern was.

With these tweaks, I would be happy with either the Patron or the Helldorado. Having metal or not having metal would make less difference to me than incorporating these tweaks.

I think you'd increase the size of the sweet spot / balance point which would benefit any skier, and you'd let advanced / expert skiers push them even harder.

All-mountain ski, improved chop performance, still fun in a foot or two of pow (though admittedly, in two feet of pow, I'm going to break out something fatter), excellent on hardpack. What's not to like?

Originally Posted by JFE24

1) Because these skis are already extremely good on hardpack, and none of my proposed adjustments would diminish that.

2) The ski would charge, but it wouldn't be a total beast. With my adjustments, you'd have a ski that would react a bit more like the 190cm Bibby Pro (at 118mm underfoot) or the Rossi Squad 7 (120mm underfoot) but in a 113mm waist. I love the Bibby and the Squad and could find room for a narrower, similar ski.

3) Personally, I really like the shape / sidecut of the tail on the Patron and Helldorado. That wasn't the issue, the flex pattern was.

With these tweaks, I would be happy with either the Patron or the Helldorado. Having metal or not having metal would make less difference to me than incorporating these tweaks.

I think you'd increase the size of the sweet spot / balance point which would benefit any skier, and you'd let advanced / expert skiers push them even harder.

All-mountain ski, improved chop performance, still fun in a foot or two of pow (though admittedly, in two feet of pow, I'm going to break out something fatter), excellent on hardpack. What's not to like?

I have also skied the Helldorado pretty extensively. I had no tip spearing issues and really dug the rocker profile (a lot). Low rise means stability in deeper snow. (less "plowing"/drag effect of uuber rocker). Its not the stiffest ski but has plenty of backbone. I found it one of the best I'd skied in 2011/2012.

Edit: And I actually skied semi-legit bump lines on these. Again, no tip spearing ever. I cannot agree with JFE24s assessment of this ski. Different strokes for different folks!

http://www.earlyups.com/featured/gea...nd-helldorado/

Jeff

Originally Posted by JeffreyJim

I have also skied the Helldorado pretty extensively. I had no tip spearing issues and really dug the rocker profile (a lot). Low rise means stability in deeper snow. (less "plowing"/drag effect of uuber rocker). Its not the stiffest ski but has plenty of backbone. I found it one of the best I'd skied in 2011/2012.

Edit: And I actually skied semi-legit bump lines on these. Again, no tip spearing ever. I cannot agree with JFE24s assessment of this ski. Different strokes for different folks!

Low rise - coupled with a very soft, straight tip - does not automatically equate to stability in deeper snow. And as I wrote in my review, I wouldn't change the entire tip profile, I'd turn up the first 2-3 centimeters of the tip.

But good to hear that you had a different experience.

hmmm, hoped the patron or better helldorado would be the ticket for me...

whatever, two guys fucking ripping on the helldorado
johan jonsson and mattias hargin on the helldorado this april

http://vimeo.com/41229749

http://vimeo.com/41227708

It is a ripping ski no doubt. Very high on my list for next year.

Couple more things: I would not call any part of this ski "soft". Is it LP/"race room" stiff? No way. But it is no noodle. No ski with this much metal is. It has a ton of torsional rigidity and moderate/round vertical flex profile. I never felt it fold on me or do anything weird. It had a ton of edge hold when I needed it yet was easy to release (due to the rocker profile). Loosest tail I may have encountered on a semi conventional ski yet. (which I like)

My disclaimer is I don't love super stiff boards. Just don't need em. To add, I dig rocker when done right, and I feel they are close with this sort of stick. (lower rise, in general, always more stable than moderate/severe rise, just doesn't plane as quick nor is it as "snappy" at low low speed)

My $0.02.

Originally Posted by Andyski

This. That shape makes it so easy, why soften it up too? I've been waiting for a burlier 5-point. Looks like the wait continues (I know, I should try the BG).

The 191 BG blows through crud and I have a ton of confidence in the ski at speed overall buy 2

I will post up my reivew this weekend I love the ski and for me it works great.

I had similar experiences to the OP with the Patron, minus the tip-spearing. They're a blast in firmer snow, even moguls, and great in fresh powder or wind-buff, but I had a hard time finding my balance in deep, cut-up conditions. I kind of assumed it was just my skills or my mount (a little forward of the trad line), or perhaps something about dampness that would be addressed by the metal in the Hellderado, but it looks like maybe not.

Bumping this because I might need to move the mount on my Patrons for new boots anyway. They are now mounted a cm or so in front of the "Classic" line. Would moving the mount nearer to or up to the center line maybe put more of the meat of the ski behind my heel for a little more feeling of support in the tail? Or might that just make them ski even shorter and squirrelier in rough situations?

Interesting u ask that, I've been experiencing the same and have just done the opposite, gone BACK. I re-mounted at -3cm, unfortunately yet to ski them yet.

My thinking was that the tail would kinda fold and rocket you sometimes, with less tail there will be more tip to lean on (I like long tips ;-) volkl explosiv, rc112 etc) so that the tail doesn't get loaded so much. I also think that I'll be able to ski it better from the ball of my foot, it felt like the middle of the sidecut landed somewhere around the middle of my foot which left me feeling a bit unbalanced.

Will report back, let us know how u get along with yours.

I have mine on the back line and love them no complaints. Here is my review http://blog.levelninesports.com/2012...dorado-review/

Originally Posted by ulty_guy

.... I re-mounted at -3cm, unfortunately yet to ski them yet.

.....Will report back, let us know how u get along with yours.

Thanks UG. That was my initial assumption too: move back to add stability. But I started thinking that that might just put me farther out on the soft part of the extended tail. You'll probably get out on yours before I get mine remounted, so keep me posted before I do anything rash.

(And Yeti, maybe I just need metal in my skis, or to learn how to balance.)