Thread: Tubeless Questions

In light of yesterday's thread, I'm prepared for whatever stupid argument breaks out here, but am gonna ask some questions anyway.

Bought a new wheelset because I found a great deal, and am about to do a build on a new hardtail XC ride. The new rims are UST. I've read plenty about going tubeless with non-UST rims, but didnt' find anything about UST rim but non-UST tires. I've got a bunch on non-UST tires around and am wondering about using them to go tubeless. Will a a UST rim with foldable bead tires and a dose of Stan's or caffelatex seal reliably? Does it depend on the tire? Tire/rim combination?

Or should I just throw some tubes in and wait till I'm ready to buy a pair of UST tires to go tubeless?

To the extent it affects your opinion, it's not about flats. My tubes with slime have solved the puncture problem almost entirely, and I run pretty high pressure so no pinch flats.

UST tires are getting better but most are heavy and ride like crap. My personal opinion is you have the best way to go. UST rim, non-UST tire + Latex and away you go. I wouldn't go through the time and expense if your tires are worn but if you have a tire that is 90% and a good match for the bike I think your set, but I'm simple so.....

http://forums.mtbr.com/wheels-tires/...ss-782283.html
http://forums.mtbr.com/wheels-tires/...ok-754180.html

Depends on the tire. A tire with a thin sidewall will have a lot of trouble sealing up (though fwiw I've pulled it off with Kenda Small Block 8's with a lot of work). If that's the case, up the amount of Stan's/Caffelatex (I like Caffelatex much more) and you should be fine.

I'm running an older 2.4 Mutano race (non ust) on my UST Haven's; no issues, Once I got it mounted...

It was a folded tire and i could not get the damn thing to mount up. I ended up throwing it on with a tube and letting it sit for 24hrs, then pulled out the tube and mounted up w/ stans and soapy water. Thing has been great since then, going on 3 months.

bobmtr, thanks for the tip. I assume the soapy water is to help get the beads to seat, is that right? And do I need to let that completely dry before adding the Stan's?

Originally Posted by Jamespio

bobmtr, thanks for the tip. I assume the soapy water is to help get the beads to seat, is that right? And do I need to let that completely dry before adding the Stan's?

No, but it helps to seat the tire and pump it up pretty without Stan's first. Then deflate, add Stan's, and repeat the process. Also, if you are running tires with this sidewalls (Specialized and Kenda are notable examples), plan on using twice the Stan's (100ml/4oz per tire) and spending a few hours shaking out leaks, letting it site horizontally, coming back to new leaks, shaking them out, repeat.

Why not just get ust or tubeless ready tires and forget about it?

This isn't the exact setup you're talking about, but an example none the less of what can happen when mix matching tubeless and non tubeless components.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6WVRL7UNaRg

So now you've heard a number of anecdotes from people who have successfully set up non-UST tires tubeless.
I feel like you have the goods and are ready to find out for yourself with little additional investment, so it's your turn now.
If you have the rims and you have the tires, just have at it. Post result here. IE, what was easy to seat, what held air well, what needed more sealant, what rode differently from when it was tubed.

fair enough, jm2e.

There should be a master list of rim/tire combos like jm2 suggested.

For me:

-Maxxis Ardent 2.25 folding
-shimano mt15 wheelset
-stans kit with 2 full scoops of sealant per tire
-zero leaks, burps right off the bat. 30psi/rider weight is #160.

I think my success is due to following the stans instructional videos exactly, using an air tank/compressor, and using the extra sealant like the mechanic at my LBS suggestes. Shake the wheels like stan does in his video for like 10 minutes per wheel = i havent lost even a 1/2 a pound of air pressure with 10 miles of rough all mountain riding.

I just did my first tubeless set up with UST Shimano XT wheel set and non-UST Kenda Nevagals. Setting this up was so easy, I don't see a need for UST tires. Just 2 cups of Stans and good floor pump is really all you need.

If your existing tires are really worn, the bead might be tougher to seat. I set up new tires so I think that's why it was so easy. I'd say its worth trying.

older Easton Havocs, Conti Mountain King Portections, 2 scoops of stans, wham-bam thank you ma'am. I'll never run tubes again.

I think it might be easier on already used tires. One tip I used was to set up my new tires with a tube first to train the bead and casing a little bit. The folds in the bead from the packaging would want to pull away otherwise.

Mavic 823 UST with non-UST WTB Dissents. It was a bitch getting the tires on (even with soapy water) but it's so bomber now. That's a heavy DH tire though.

I have had trouble getting some non ust wtbs to mount in the past. I brought them to my lbs and they slapped them on for $10.

sent from the future using my mind powers

Use a compressor. Floor pumps work sometimes, but the compressor is foolproof. Never used a UST tire in a dozen years of riding tubeless, no need.

Just set up some ritchey wcs shields they are tubeless ready tires which might be different from UST but not positive on bontrager rythm pro wheels. No issues at all. I had a hell of a time getting the old tires bead to unseat from the rim but once the old tires were off no problems and I rode a 24 mile race the next day with no problems. The original tires were conti race kings which also never seemed to leak. I use the body molder/slime mix generously.

I messed with tubeless setups on 2 different UST wheelsets, but never used any UST-specific tires, just used Stan's sealant and tubeless valves. No problems with the valves, but I did have issues with the tires: burping off the bead (messy), seeping through the sidewalls, loss of air pressure between rides, and some tires were very difficult to seat the bead. I have a large shop compressor, and even at 60-70psi some beads just don't want to seat.

I've given it up and gone back to tubes. Where I usually ride isn't thorn-infested, and the occasional pinch flat is tolerable.

I've never had a tire that wouldn't work. Some harder than others but eventually they've all held. Maybe I've been lucky but this has helped:
http://www.treefortbikes.com/product...s-Air-Bob.html
Buy one of these and say goodby to inflation problems.

Originally Posted by Jamespio

UST rim but non-UST tires. I've got a bunch on non-UST tires around and am wondering about using them to go tubeless. Will a a UST rim with foldable bead tires and a dose of Stan's or caffelatex seal reliably? Does it depend on the tire? Tire/rim combination?

.

I tried non-ust nevegals on 819's, I had one tire go flat during a ride once but both wheels would lose 10lbs of air overnight every night no more no less but I couldn't find any leaks tanking the wheel so I think the air was leaking out around the bead because there was no rim strip so I think any non-UST tire could be used with a rim strip

IMO if you try a non-UST tire on a UST rim and it works great, if it doesn't try a rim strip, I got the non-UST tires to try and save weight, if I had to buy those tires again I would just buy UST tires because the 2 UST tires I tried worked perfectly without using any stans

When I was looking a 2.3 UST weighs around 200grams > a non UST tire, the weight of stans fluid and the rim strip would be 150-200grams and less hassle, a dash of stans would make them flat proof

I have mounted kenda/maxxis/shwalbe with a floor pump, mounting tricks:

If possible take out the vale stem to move more air

use soap bubbles but not too much liquid soap cuz it might dilute the stans fluid

You want to spread the beads against the rim SO take a piece of 1/4 " rope, tie a loop about the size of the outside of the tire casing, put a screwdriver in the loop and wind it tight which will tighten the rope down on the tire tread which will spread the tire bead

go to the stan's site and look at all the good tips

Originally Posted by XXX-er

I tried non-ust nevegals on 819's, I had one tire go flat during a ride once but both wheels would lose 10lbs of air overnight every night no more no less but I couldn't find any leaks tanking the wheel so I think the air was leaking out around the bead because there was no rim strip so I think any non-UST tire could be used with a rim strip

I could not get folding bead 2.35 Nevegals to work on my 819s. The bead just wouldn't set and the sidewalls were way too thin. UST and wire bead versions worked perfectly though.

In lieu of starting another thread, I'd like to posit some questions here.

Haven't converted to tubeless yet, mainly because of two concerns:

1. Burping. I am quite frankly terrified of rapid psi loss in high-speed situations, because my worst crashes have been from torn sidewalls and tires coming off the rim. With UST tires on a non-ust rim with a stan's kit, how much of a concern is this?

2. Destroying my rims. The whole world's made out of rocks. I am reluctant to run my rear tire on a HT at anything less than 40psi for fear of dinging the ever-loving crap out of my rims. I run my rear at 40 religiously and still get dings. I feel that the benefit of greater traction/less weight/not changing flats is outweighed by the cost of new wheels. Any additional truing/rim replacement/broken spokes associated with tubeless/ lower tire pressure?

Thought some of you true believers might want to convert another Luddite.

I wouldn't run lower pressure for tubeless than what you run with a tube

I would run an extra 5psi over what you would run with a tube and the tire should work > a tubed tire at the lower pressure

Originally Posted by XXX-er

I wouldn't run lower pressure for tubeless than what you run with a tube

I would run an extra 5psi over what you would run with a tube and the tire should work > a tubed tire at the lower pressure

What he said

Originally Posted by Roxtar

What he said

I guess I just kept hearing about XC dinks running their tires at 25 psi and assumed that was the realm I was going to be shooting for. No tube = greater tire deformation for better grip. Got it.

Don't know why it took me so long to wrap my head around that.

Originally Posted by ZomblibulaX

I guess I just kept hearing about XC dinks running their tires at 25 psi and assumed that was the realm I was going to be shooting for. No tube = greater tire deformation for better grip. Got it.

Don't know why it took me so long to wrap my head around that.

I run all my tires (tube or tubeless) at higher psi because I hate that squish feeling when I lean/stuff it into a turn. There's a reason tire companies make shoulder lugs higher than center lugs.