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  1. #1
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    Changing an Oven/Range. Electrician Mags?

    Should say "Changing Range Outlet" in Title.

    I usually stay far away from electrical work. Love some carpentry, and will even plumb if it doesnt involve poo, but electricity and I aren't friends. The extent of my experience is basically mounting and installing light fixtures, installing disposal, shit like that. So, I bought a new Range and dint realize that it had a different male plug on it than the previous Range and thus I need to swap out the female outlet.

    Need to install an outlet that will fit this guy:


    Besides making damn sure the power is off, I assume this should be pretty intuitive? What am I going to find when I chop the outlet head off to install a new one. As you can see, the plug I will be using has 4 prongs wheres as the old one only had three. Is it an added ground on the new plug? Will I find another wire in the old outlet casing for an added prong?

    (1) If doing this (outlet change, not plug change) is the right angle, what will I encounter?;
    (2) Should I be changing the plug instead?;
    (3) Am I fucked due to voltage incompatibility/Do you need more info on voltage and amps for the units?
    Quote Originally Posted by oftpiste View Post
    too much chatter and not enough clam.

  2. #2
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    It's hard to say what's going on with the old outlet. It will be labeled (voltage & amps) on the front but you might need a magnifying glass to see it. Or it will have a NEMA number on it.

    With your new plug:
    green = ground
    white = neutral
    red = hot
    black = hot

    neutral-hot = 120V
    hot-hot = 240V
    ground-hot = 120V
    ground-neutral = 0V

    If you pull the plug and check the wires then a bare wire is ground and the rest should be white-black-red or white-black-black.

    It's most likely that the missing wire is a ground (especially if the old oven has a regular appliance outlet or regular (120V) oven light. In older houses the electrical box was grounded to attach a ground there.
    If you have a problem & think that someone else is going to solve it for you then you have two problems.

  3. #3
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    Check this, hopefully the new Range will accommodate a 3 wire cord. There probably won't be an extra wire in the receptacle box.

    http://www.ask-the-electrician.com/w...ower-cord.html

  4. #4
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    If you need a ground and don't have one the trick is to take a wire and put it under a screw on the box. The box is usually grounded unless it's plastic. Use and insulated green wire. Not sure how the plug is wired but you usually have an x1 x2, t1 t2 for your line in.

  5. #5
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    No, it's not intuitive, but it's pretty simple.

    Your old range should be 220V so the circuit should be there. As Snow Dog says, it's possible your circuit has only three wires (hot + hot + neutral). If so, no big deal. If the box is not grounded, correct that by grounding it to the nearest good ground, e.g., water pipe.

    If you have issues, contact Chainsaw Willie, who is an IBEW journeyman and does nice work in exchange for intoxicants.

  6. #6
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    Thanks for the insights guys. If I have some time, I will give this a stab. Otherwise, CSW is getting a jingle.
    Quote Originally Posted by oftpiste View Post
    too much chatter and not enough clam.

  7. #7
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    As I recall, I kept the receptacle and swapped out the cord when I got a new range. Google was my friend.
    About the Author - Been around the block. Recently diagnosed with OTS. Old Timers Syndrome. 99.99% mortality rate within 50 years. Incurable but symptoms can be remediated with intense patient introspection therapy

    Never judge a man until you have walked a mile in his shoes.........because then you will be a mile away and have his shoes.

    Keep your stick on the ice. We're all in this together.

  8. #8
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    Pm me if you need any advice. I'm guessing I'm the res sparky in these parts.

    It's pretty simple and straightforward.

    ChainsawWillie is fellow brethren eh? Curious to which local. I'm out of #3 in NYC

  9. #9
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    CL I too bet that Chainsaw Willie would help you do this for beer.
    Quote Originally Posted by Downbound Train View Post
    And there will come a day when our ancestors look back...........

  10. #10
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    When I opened up the back of the range I got:

    B ---- W---- R
    G

    I disconnected all and replaced with the three prong plug and could easily tell where the white connector should be (middle obviously), but wasnt sure if the black and red were transposed. The green ground wire came out with the old plug and I simply replaced the screw. I fired her up and the screen said "power loss." I hit the cancel button and the notation disappeared. All the functions seemed to work really well but I am obviously concerned. Thinking maybe "power loss" isnt a big deal as all the functions seem to work, i.e. I would get the same notation if it was properly wired, plugged in and then the power went out one day and then came back on. Sound reasonable?

    It is now unplugged and I am wondering if maybe transposing the B and R could be an issue (likely not as they are both hot, correct?) but dont want to transpose and fire it up again before getting more feed back. I cannot seem to find anything on "power loss" in the online manual.

    FYI, the model is a Jenn Air JES 9900BAS as seen here: http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/it...ated/234994189

    Rear says:

    120/240v 120/208V
    11.4 KW 8.6KW

    Looks like there is a grounding strap in the unit under where the green wire used to go. Am I getting dangerous without doing more to ground it?
    Last edited by commonlaw; 05-03-2012 at 04:52 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by oftpiste View Post
    too much chatter and not enough clam.

  11. #11
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    New set-up. Is that ground ok? Added wires are, I think, related to a downdraft fan I won't be using).


    Dog. Wondering how her dad could be such a dolt (even though I built her that bed, ungrateful mutt).
    Quote Originally Posted by oftpiste View Post
    too much chatter and not enough clam.

  12. #12
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    Commonlaw - got your PM but I'm really busy the next couple of days and wouldn't be able to get by your place for the weekend, sorry about that.

    Still, what you have there should work. The polarity of the black and red wires doesn't matter, there should be nothing polarity sensitive in a range.

    The green "equipment ground" is a safety issue and should be addressed, but it's not important for the range's operation if you just want to use the range for now. The purpose of the green wire is to allow current to flow back to the panel in a low resistance path that will trip the breaker should something short itself inside the range. What you have to decide is whether you feel there's a chance that a wire inside your new range is shorted to the chassis of the range, making it electrically charged and potentially electrocuting you. Do you feel lucky, punk? Well do you?

    I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that the chances of a short in your new range are small. Even if there was a short you would also have to be grounded in order to get shocked. As long as your kitchen floor isn't bare concrete, you wear shoes when you cook, and don't touch the stove and your faucet at the same time you're pretty safe.

    Go ahead, turn it on and see how it works. Just make sure you're wearing shoes and not standing in a puddle of water when you touch it. The only problem as far as the operation of the range is concerned is if this newfangled range is sophisticated enough to check for the presence of the ground. I have no idea whether any range does that, but it is within the realm of possibility.

    I would be happy to come by your place (assuming you live somewhere close to Seattle) next week to figure out what needs to be done to get the proper 4-wire plug working.


    Thanks for the shout-out Steve! NumbrdDays - local 46.
    ...Some will fall in love with life and drink it from a fountain that is pouring like an avalanche coming down the mountain...

    "I enjoy skinny skiing, bullfights on acid..." - Lacy Underalls

    The problems we face will not be solved by the minds that created them.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chainsaw_Willie View Post
    Commonlaw - got your PM but I'm really busy the next couple of days and wouldn't be able to get by your place for the weekend, sorry about that.

    Still, what you have there should work. The polarity of the black and red wires doesn't matter, there should be nothing polarity sensitive in a range.

    The green "equipment ground" is a safety issue and should be addressed, but it's not important for the range's operation if you just want to use the range for now. The purpose of the green wire is to allow current to flow back to the panel in a low resistance path that will trip the breaker should something short itself inside the range. What you have to decide is whether you feel there's a chance that a wire inside your new range is shorted to the chassis of the range, making it electrically charged and potentially electrocuting you. Do you feel lucky, punk? Well do you?

    I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that the chances of a short in your new range are small. Even if there was a short you would also have to be grounded in order to get shocked. As long as your kitchen floor isn't bare concrete, you wear shoes when you cook, and don't touch the stove and your faucet at the same time you're pretty safe.

    Go ahead, turn it on and see how it works. Just make sure you're wearing shoes and not standing in a puddle of water when you touch it. The only problem as far as the operation of the range is concerned is if this newfangled range is sophisticated enough to check for the presence of the ground. I have no idea whether any range does that, but it is within the realm of possibility.

    I would be happy to come by your place (assuming you live somewhere close to Seattle) next week to figure out what needs to be done to get the proper 4-wire plug working.


    Thanks for the shout-out Steve! NumbrdDays - local 46.
    Thanks Will! Returning your PM now.
    Quote Originally Posted by oftpiste View Post
    too much chatter and not enough clam.

  14. #14
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    Did you buy the range new?

    I think your range originally came with a ground bus from that green screw to the white neutral. For 4 wire you remove the bus (looks like yours was removed), for 3 you leave it in and the neutral is the ground.

    How old is your home? Do you have 2 or 3 pronged outlets in your home?

    Check out the Jenn-Air install manuals for your model. http://shared.whirlpoolcorp.com/prod...rType=Consumer

  15. #15
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    Power loss very well may be the default the first time it fires up (our range goes into a mode each time the electric goes out). Did you try and set the clock on the stove and see if you have any burners working?

  16. #16
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    homeey, home was built in 40s. Have a three prong outlet so I need to convert to three prong plug. Really not too sure what a "bus" is even after consulting my google overlord.

    And RShea, yes all seems to work. I think the "power loss" is just the range letting me know that there was an absence of power and now its back, as if the power went out and came back on during a storm.

    It is tough to tell from the picture but the neutral is attached to the ground screw via that metal strap.

    And no, not a new range but new to me and new enough anyway. I put it in a rental house failry recently and then pillaged it back. So, it is pretty new and was pricey so I am hoping it wasn't put together by monkeys (although one has taken it apart now).
    Quote Originally Posted by oftpiste View Post
    too much chatter and not enough clam.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chainsaw_Willie View Post
    The green "equipment ground" is a safety issue and should be addressed, but it's not important for the range's operation if you just want to use the range for now. The purpose of the green wire is to allow current to flow back to the panel in a low resistance path that will trip the breaker should something short itself inside the range. What you have to decide is whether you feel there's a chance that a wire inside your new range is shorted to the chassis of the range, making it electrically charged and potentially electrocuting you. Do you feel lucky, punk? Well do you?

    I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that the chances of a short in your new range are small. Even if there was a short you would also have to be grounded in order to get shocked. As long as your kitchen floor isn't bare concrete, you wear shoes when you cook, and don't touch the stove and your faucet at the same time you're pretty safe.

    Go ahead, turn it on and see how it works. Just make sure you're wearing shoes and not standing in a puddle of water when you touch it. The only problem as far as the operation of the range is concerned is if this newfangled range is sophisticated enough to check for the presence of the ground. I have no idea whether any range does that, but it is within the realm of possibility.

    I would be happy to come by your place (assuming you live somewhere close to Seattle) next week to figure out what needs to be done to get the proper 4-wire plug working.


    Thanks for the shout-out Steve! NumbrdDays - local 46.
    I have been a licensed electrician since 1993. It used to be the standard to ground the frame of the range (or dryer) through the neutral. If your old plug has the three prong receptacle, just make sure the neutral to frame strap is still connected. It looks like it is in the photo. If there is a fault to the frame of the range, the current will go back on the neutral in a low resistance path and it will trip the breaker. About 20+ years ago the NEC folks decided that a dedicated ground was required for all new installations. It was a sound decision, but your setup is just fine if you are wired correctly for a three prong system.

  18. #18
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    Again, much thanks guys. Made dinner on her tonight and no one blew up - so far so good. This place is a wealth of knowledge.
    Quote Originally Posted by oftpiste View Post
    too much chatter and not enough clam.

  19. #19
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    I think you're good to go.

    Sorry about the bus thing, we use the term all the time at work, and it doesn't actually describe what you have. It's just the strap you describe from the frame to the neutral.

    When I asked about 2 or 3 pronged outlets I was referring to the other 120V outlets in your home, to see if you had grounds there. Yours are probably all 2 pronged unless someone upgraded your electrical at some point with a dedicated ground. As Jethro pointed out neutrals used to be used for grounding, and it sounds like you have a strap (bus) from the white neutral to chasis ground (the green screw), so looks good. A dedicated ground would be better.

    Looks like a nice range.

  20. #20
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    The UL wouldn't put a product on the market if it wasn't safe. What they do to things is insane. That lil strap is nothing to worry about. They are on dryers too.

    Looks like everything is working.

    Chainsaw how are things by you?

  21. #21
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    NmbrdDays - things are pretty damn slow around here. There's a fair amount of construction starting up, but not enough to keep everyone working. I've been on the books for a year - got laid off at the beginning of last May. I was really hoping things would pick up this spring but the fact is I'm still halfway down the books and there would need to be 400-500 calls in the next two months to keep me from living under a bridge so I took a non-union gig as a maintenance electrician at an AT&T data center starting this week. Pay is less than what I made as a 5th year apprentice, but better than unemployment plus there's paid time off, health benefits, etc. and an incredible amount of stuff to learn here. I'm responsible for maintaining these huge diesel rotary uninterruptable power supply generators so at least I'm going to get some real good experience.

    Thanks for asking - how're things in NY?
    ...Some will fall in love with life and drink it from a fountain that is pouring like an avalanche coming down the mountain...

    "I enjoy skinny skiing, bullfights on acid..." - Lacy Underalls

    The problems we face will not be solved by the minds that created them.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by commonlaw View Post
    ...

    Dog. Wondering how her dad could be such a dolt (even though I built her that bed, ungrateful mutt).
    oh, you have a Rainforest jumperoo?

    how's that little ditty it plays working out for you guys?
    ... jfost is really ignorant, he often just needs simple facts laid out for him...

  23. #23
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    Dude it's pretty slow here. 70 week wait as of mon. The wait prob went up over the weekend. There are a few jobs starting but not taking more than 80 for only a 5 month call. There just isn't much starting and what does, my local seems to let it slip away. Luckily there are a few hungry shops here picking up work. It may spark something who knows.

    They are doing some re talks with our contract now...... Just as its time for a new one.

    Coming to the end of a UV water treatment plant, hopefully the next one will start up soon. I'm lucky that I can get enough side jobs through friends.

    Not a prob. Seems across the country were all in the same boat. Not much happening.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by jfost View Post
    oh, you have a Rainforest jumperoo?

    how's that little ditty it plays working out for you guys?
    Damn you. I want to go Office Space on that thing.
    Quote Originally Posted by oftpiste View Post
    too much chatter and not enough clam.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jethro View Post
    I have been a licensed electrician since 1993. It used to be the standard to ground the frame of the range (or dryer) through the neutral. If your old plug has the three prong receptacle, just make sure the neutral to frame strap is still connected. It looks like it is in the photo. If there is a fault to the frame of the range, the current will go back on the neutral in a low resistance path and it will trip the breaker. About 20+ years ago the NEC folks decided that a dedicated ground was required for all new installations. It was a sound decision, but your setup is just fine if you are wired correctly for a three prong system.
    QFT. Nice explanation of what is happening here.I deal with ungrounded distribution systems everyday.

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