Thread: What should a jr. freeride ski be like

I've just started work at Grace Skis. My first assignment is to design a competition quality jr. freeride ski. So I was hoping some of you with more knowledge and experience with the jr fwt might give me some good suggestions for where to start. What are some of your favorite skis out there now? What dimensions would you like a ski to have? What is good about existing skis, and what would you like to see improvement on?

Thanks everybody.

Fat (120/100/110) and less than $500.

Topsheets should be covered with pictures of your naked gf.

I think a jr. freeride ski should be like...



















...wait for it




















...discussed in tech talk.

Other than that, probably similar to some women's models; shorter lengths, softer flex and maybe slightly smaller overall dimensions. Don't just put on a different graphic and call it a kids ski like some brands do with their women's models.

Don't sell the kiddies short though, most of them probably need more ski than my crusty old ass ever will!

Going to one of the events and talking to the competitors/coaches would have been a good idea.

send oftpiste a pm (seriously) I know he and his two highly ranked sons (+ another waiting his turn) would love to talk to you.

me too, i got a little ripper that will billy goat your gear.
bobby

ski should be thick and soft with a little front loft

Thanks PNWBrit!

My juniors are currently on:

#1, 17 yrs - ON3P Wrenegade, 181
#2, 14 yrs - Surface Next Life 160 (will be on something 10-15 cm longer next year, he wants ON3P Caylors in 171)
#3, 11 yrs, - K2 Bad Apple 148 (probably moving to the above Surfaces next year)

IMVHO, Surface, K2 (though I'm much more partial to more boutiquey brands) and Line with their EP Pro junior model are on the right track if that's of any help. I think a ski with a design like the Wren (flattish tail, tip rocker, fairly straight) in shorter length and slightly softer flex would be very cool. The wren is a great comp ski with its lack of tail rocker. Until the last year or two there's been an extremely small number of choices for fat skis for kids who wanted a real fat, rockered (or not) ski.

Feel free to shoot me an email if you want to pick my very small brain. I've got a whole team of product testers for you!

I'm having a tough time finding a proper ski for Owen - he's almost 6 and weighs just over 40#, but he charges hard for a little guy - I'd love to have him on something with Buster's dimensions (120/100/110) at 100cm - softish or maybe early rise tip, no tail rocker, but a turned up tail - maybe because that's essentially what I ski on at work every day - I've had my eye on some miniMantra's but they are only 80mm underfoot, and I think the kid could use more meat

There's a market for this. Build it.
I've got 2 candidates too who would do well on a fatter plank, one 10 and one 8.

I have 2 sons, aged 12 and 14. They have each skiied 20 - 30 days a year for the last 5 years. And both have been on skis since they were 3. They weigh about 100lbs each and can easily outski my university students.

This season they were both on the Line EP Pro Jrs which have tip/waist/tail dimensions of 137/107/129....with very slight tip an tail rise and a bit of camber underfoot. Pretty wide for a kids ski but they loved them. Both just did 32 days at Baker in all conditions. Nice to have them on wide skis in the deep days. I did not have to wait for them once when it was fresh and deep. Performs fine on the groomers too.

Ideally, a 100mm underfoot ski, with a tip rocker/flat tail, and not too ridiculously soft. Maybe a 130/100/120 dimension?

I've been thinking of a 165cm Armada TST for them for next year (132/102/122).

I heard that LibTech is maybe considering making a shorter NAS Pow in the next few years....ie maybe down to a 171 and 161. I would get those for my kids for sure.

K

Originally Posted by Buster Highmen

Fat (120/100/110) and less than $500.

Moment Kietzke
119-101-114 at 130cm, 146
124-106-118 at 158
twin rocker, $300

http://www.momentskis.com/shop/product/kietzke/

just an add-on.... it needs to be very affordable. Kids outgrown these things every year.

Originally Posted by PappaG

Moment Kietzke
119-101-114 at 130cm, 146
124-106-118 at 158
twin rocker, $300

http://www.momentskis.com/shop/product/kietzke/

Hey PappaG,

Good one.....not sure why I didn't think Moments. I just bought a pair of 2011 Moment Rubys for myself!

And during the season my 12 yr old demo'd a set of Moment Bellas in a 152cm 132/104/124 from the Glacier Ski shop. He ripped on them....I only told them they were girls skis on the last run!

I really don't know why companies make woman's skis....they should be called "light adult" skis. My wife skiied for years on junior skis. If you call it a girls ski then the boys will not ski it?

Another potential good kids ski I am considering is an Atomic Access (comes in 151cm and 161cm), pretty light and flexible and in a 161cm is 127.5/100/120.5 dimension.

As for price. I typically buy 1 yr old stock in summer (ie you can get last yrs Line Sir Francis Bacon Jrs for $214 at PortersTahoe), then I try to scoop some decent bindings for $100 at Evo. So you spend $350 with taxes/shipping say, but then you can dump their old skis at the fall ski swaps for approx. $100 - $150. So I figure I am out cash of approx. $200 per year to outfit my kid in sweet gear.

I also trade in their used boots for used boots 1 size up.

But then if you figure $200 divided by 40 ski days = $5 per day....or $1 per ski hour!! Definitely worth it if there is pow and you do not have to wait for the little buggers (acutally they are waiting for me now).

btw....Grace skis look cool!

K

the lad needs landing gear

Thanks so much, I appreciate the input.

So it sounds like the general opinion is the ski should be minimum 100 underfoot, early rise, flat tail, and just a bit soft. How does that sound?

yes. an additional model with tail rocker would be fine too. And, very importantly, inexpensive.

Originally Posted by juggles

the ski should be minimum 100 underfoot, early rise, flat tail, and just a bit soft. How does that sound?

Sounds pretty good.

Couple of points though....do not limit the market for it (Note that I am an accountant....not a marketer):

- Don't call it a kids or junior ski, call it a "freeride ski for rippers <120 lbs or something" - then you can sell it to kids, teens, light women.

- definitely make it unisex (why take out 1/2 the market),

- light weight is good.

As for making it inexpensive. That is tough if you want it to be quality (ie can rip and still be light/durable/well made). And most parents won't/can't spend a lot on a kid's ski as they outgrow it in a season. I am lucky as the older son can pass it down to the younger so I can get 2 years out of a ski (sucks to be the younger sibling!). And as I am comfortable buying and selling gear online or at swaps, I am always factoring resale value when I buy something (ie if you buy crap they are worth nothing on resale....versus buying quality, taking care of it and getting decent resale....it's all about the differential Cost - resale = net cash out). Not sure how a ski manufacturer can help with resale value? Have to think about that one more.

Or maybe to reduce cost you package these skis with adult skis. ie offer a family "set" set of skis? (ie see that Grace offers a deal for 3 pairs of skis). Last year, I was on 185cm Line EP Pros for a bit, which had the exact same ski topsheet as my two sons 145cm EP Pro Jrs. Pretty cool when the three of you get on a quad chair together.

And maybe offer this <120 lb freeride ski with some kind of decent, light demo-style binding.....cause their darn feet keep growing too?

PS - love that pic of the little lad hitting that jump. You can see his eyes spotting his landing, good form, nice work.

K

Originally Posted by kc_7777

And during the season my 12 yr old demo'd a set of Moment Bellas in a 152cm 132/104/124 from the Glacier Ski shop. He ripped on them....I only told them they were girls skis on the last run!

I really don't know why companies make woman's skis....they should be called "light adult" skis. My wife skiied for years on junior skis. If you call it a girls ski then the boys will not ski it?

For the most part, Moment's female line is nearly identical to the men's version, just a different topsheet. Not sure if things changed in the past year, but the cores of something like the Ruby and it's female counterpart, the Pika, were the same. At demos, if the Tahoe is unavailable, we'll direct someone to try the Sierra. Same ski, different topsheet.

Should the skis work well for park too? Or should a pair of comp skis be specifically for charging?

For the real small kids one ski for park and is fine. Once they get old enough to really understand the difference they should have both.

I think the ski needs to be twin tipped. My son does allot of touring. Something like the Atomic Access in shorter sizes.

PM me. I coach a competitive jr freeride program at Lake Louise. We have kids from 8-18, all of them, literally, the future freeride skiing.