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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    S. SEA
    Posts
    289

    Shit, I bought Climbing Skins Direct. Now What?

    I fondled a pair of CSD skins and liked the weight and foldability of them, and heck, the price was right too, so I bought some. If I'd searched TGR first I probably would have stuck with BD or G3, but I didn't, so here we are and I'd like some recommendations on how to live with/fix the shitty aspects of these skins. It looks like there are 3 issues:

    Tip and Tail Attachment:
    In normal skins the tail attachment is elastic so there's a little room for slop once you put the skin on tip-to-tail. On these, the stretchy part is on the tip loop and the tail is fixed, which means when you install tip-to-tail, the tip elasticity allows the skin to be installed fore or aft of normal (based on how hard you pull the skin on), and since there is no elastic in the tail attachment it's almost impossible to get a good attachment. Does that description make sense?

    I've thought about installing them in reverse, tail-to-tip, but that's stupid for at least one reason. The other option is to cut the attachments and put some BD ones on, but that costs money and would essentially negate the whole purpose of buying the cheap CSD skins. Other ideas?

    Glue:
    People say the glue sucks and comes off in chunks. True? Regluing is easy enough, but again, the cost of glue makes me not want to do this. Can I at least make it one season?

    Water Resistance:
    I've also read they suck water up real good. Any thoughts on this? Liberal application of skin wax, or...? At least I live in the PNW where the snow stays nice and dry...

    So, WWMD? Just sell the skins and start fresh or salvage what I have? Anyone need some real sweet skins cut for 112RP's?

    P.S. Fuck off in advance to anyone who calls me out on the above trivial first world problems.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Posts
    1,036
    Can't you just return them?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Not Brooklyn
    Posts
    8,318
    1) Put elastic on tail instead of tip because it has a tendency to collect snow.
    2) Rub wax on skins if snow temp is near or above zero. This is a good idea with any skins, but especially necessary on CSD's. I also leave a little chunk of wax in my pack just in case.
    3) Glue isn't so bad if you take care of it.


    CSD skins are fine. They're just a little worse that the competition. I actually think G3 skins are easily superior to BD's. They glide soooooooooo much better. But plenty of folks love the bit of extra grip or durability of the Ascensions. I think I've heard a couple folks tout some some advantage of CSD's as well. If you like stuffing skins in your jacket, the CSD's are more pliable, and thus won't make you look as fat.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Crystal Mountain backcountry, WA
    Posts
    1,359
    Buy the BD tip and STS tail attachment parts...they aren't that costly and easy to install.
    Glue and Wetness problem can be mitigated on a tour by tight fitting tail and tip attachment but without that you're fucked!

    And stay in Holiday Express next time before buying skins.......and
    First World problem---JONG!
    TGR Bureau Chief, Greenwater, WA

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Vancouver, BC
    Posts
    33
    I have a pair of CSD direct skins I grabbed half way through last season and have used quite a lot. They're fine, don't stress. The glue thing was fixed, and it doesn't do that anymore.

    I have them cut for JJs, which have almost the exact same dimensions/rocker as the 112RPs, so we should have a similar experience. The tip/tail attachment works great. Just install them the way they're meant to be installed. It actually works so well, that even if your glue is totally toast, it will keep the skin on enough to get out of where you are. They seem to glide better than my friends skins as well.

    My biggest problems with them are:
    1. They are kind of bulky/heavy.
    2. The glue is insanely sticky. When you stick them back to back, it required the effort of two people to get them apart in the very beginning. I started folding them at 1/4 and 3/4 the length of skin into the center, so they're easier to pull apart.

    If this is the skin: -1--2-
    Fold at point 1 and 2 into the center^
    Once folded: ==

    Then you can put the tail hook onto your ski and pull down and you'll have them unstuck quick.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Eburg
    Posts
    13,243
    The fixed tail and elastic tip was how everyone did glued on skins for years. It works okay. It actually has an advantage when your glue isn't working, e.g., pollen-fouled bases, circumstances where a skin with an elastic tail fixture can shear and pop off at the tip. (Some of you have likely experienced this on a pollen day.)

    If you are going to retrofit, consider BD Clipfix, my favorite, but you'd better be pretty fucking accurate when cutting the skin to length.

    Re water absorbsion, I rub some glide wax into the plush and then iron it in. Before you rip, you can squeegie lots of water out with your ski pole.

    [/response to first world problem whiner]

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    6,749
    Seriously, a bitchfest before even reading the instructions or trying them?

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Rogers Pass
    Posts
    385
    No complaints with them here. I have put in about 250 days on my CSD's from 4 years ago.. I just recently applied some new BD gold label glue since one skin wasn't sticking as well as it used to; but I had over 200 days prior to that without an issue. I have them on twin tips so the twin-tip attachment is excellent; much nicer than my BD's on my new skis. The skins come with the purple bar of wax; apply that every few days during spring/summer and you will actually be better off than people with BD's. I also got my own picture printed on the skin which is super rad. My suggestion is stop complaining and try them

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    S. SEA
    Posts
    289
    Regarding putting the elastic in the back: not sure exactly how this is done, I think my attachments are different. My tail attachment is just a riveted metal hook, so I'd have to put the whole skin on backwards, and even then the hook would just slip off the front. It sounds like other generations maybe had a standard loop at the rear too? Then I could see just flipping them around.

    Quote Originally Posted by bern43 View Post
    Can't you just return them?
    I already cut them. Maybe they'd still let me, but I feel like that'd be overstepping the return policy still.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scotsman50 View Post
    Buy the BD tip and STS tail attachment parts...they aren't that costly and easy to install.
    Probably what I'll do, just checking if I was missing anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by endure View Post
    No complaints with them here. I have put in about 250 days on my CSD's from 4 years ago.. I just recently applied some new BD gold label glue since one skin wasn't sticking as well as it used to; but I had over 200 days prior to that without an issue. I have them on twin tips so the twin-tip attachment is excellent; much nicer than my BD's on my new skis. The skins come with the purple bar of wax; apply that every few days during spring/summer and you will actually be better off than people with BD's. I also got my own picture printed on the skin which is super rad. My suggestion is stop complaining and try them
    This is what I was hoping for, if the glue or skin was especially bad I just wanted to get it dealt with before having to mess with it on the snow. I'm having a hard time finding where I was complaining though.

    Quote Originally Posted by 1000-oaks View Post
    Seriously, a bitchfest before even reading the instructions or trying them?
    If they don't go on smoothly in my living room, what should I expect on snow?
    P.S. I just got back from a few days of mt biking in your parts. Pretty awesome stuff.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Posts
    15,779
    Quote Originally Posted by Big Steve View Post
    ...If you are going to retrofit, consider BD Clipfix, my favorite...
    Good luck finding some of those antiques, Retro Boy.

    I liked them too.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Kootenays
    Posts
    1,496
    Have a couple pairs in my fleet. Totally happy with them. Run the tip only and when the glue starts to die, add the STS tails from BD.

    Wax the crap out of the with the included block of skin wax.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    pnw
    Posts
    46
    Been using a set with the same attachment for three years with no problems. Glue is great and I haven't had any of the glopping I got with my Ascensions after two years.

    You definitely want to put them on tail to tip. In my experience this allows for a perfect fit. You get a bit of wear on your top sheets at the tip when you stretch the attachment to hook it around the tip, but not a big deal. I like it better than my Ascensions w/ clipfix.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Eburg
    Posts
    13,243
    Quote Originally Posted by Meadow Skipper View Post
    Good luck finding some of those antiques, Retro Boy.

    I liked them too.
    BD stocks and sells them.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Bellingham, WA
    Posts
    593
    Quote Originally Posted by 1000-oaks View Post
    Seriously, a bitchfest before even reading the instructions or trying them?
    Par for the course here
    Let us so live that when we come to die even the undertaker will be sorry - Mark Twain

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Posts
    15,779
    Quote Originally Posted by Meadow Skipper View Post
    Good luck finding some of those antiques, Retro Boy.

    I liked them too.
    Quote Originally Posted by Big Steve View Post
    BD stocks and sells them.
    Argh! You're right. Before I posted that I looked at BDs site under "spare ski parts" and didn't see them. Turns out they're listed in the skins section,

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    the gach
    Posts
    5,661
    CSD skins are great. I like them better than g3 for sure. Definitely put the tip stretcher on the tail. I've had no problems with mine, never even bother to wax them. Although I do keep some in the pack.

    My glue is on its second season with no failures even in very cold or very wet conditions. It should make it at least one more season.
    But Ellen kicks ass - if she had a beard it would be much more haggard. -Jer

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    northern BC
    Posts
    30,879
    Quote Originally Posted by Big Steve View Post
    The fixed tail and elastic tip was how everyone did glued on skins for years. It works okay.
    I didn't think so, the rubber broke or tore or I was knocking the rubber stretchers off the tips of them old skinny skis and the wider skis got the more I knocked them off

    I was pretty happy when the G3 tail came along, the new tail clip on the G3 alpinist works fine on twin tips , also like the BD tip & tails, also like the clip fix but you usually need to readjust it once after instal

    rubber stretchers are best forgotten IMO

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Idaho Falls, ID
    Posts
    1,042
    Honestly, keep them. Having the stretcher on the tip is actually pretty damn nice, it allows you to take the skins off easier while keeping the skis on you're feet. The plush on these is better than G3: you have better grip, the black diamonds are pretty damn stiff and heavy. Their (BD) attachment system actually sucks balls if you have had experience with anything different. Last, the glue isn't quite as good as G3, but I've got 4 years on mine and only recently really started having problems. Use them, you may find that you like it.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    302
    Quote Originally Posted by endure View Post
    I have them on twin tips so the twin-tip attachment is excellent; much nicer than my BD's on my new skis.
    As a side remark: The G3 Twin-Tip connector fits nicely onto the BD tail adjustment and works really nice on twin tips.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    northern BC
    Posts
    30,879
    Quote Originally Posted by cliffhucker View Post
    the black diamonds are pretty damn stiff and heavy. .
    Thats what I assumed until I weighed a BD skin and compared it to a g3 alpinist which looks so light & elegant, albeit the g3 is trimmed to for a slightly wider ski they weigh pretty close to the same

    I find the stiff BD skins don't pack quite as nice but the stiffnessmakes them easier to handle in the wind

    the G3 alpinist tip does really work awesume

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Breckenridge
    Posts
    726
    I love my CSD skins, glue is way better than the recent BD glue I've seen, attachment is great, easy to take off with ski still attached to boot. Sometimes I get a little snow at the tip, but nothing like I've seen the competition.

    Stop bitching without even trying them, mine have been in constant use for 4 years, ~50 days of use this year alone and are still great.

    Use wax, I lost the included wax, and since it is all I have, use F4 swix wax, this makes them faster than 100% mohair bd skins

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Lakewood, CO
    Posts
    238
    I too have CSD skins and have not had any issues.

    The glue is stupid strong and with some glop stopper wax no water gloping issues.

    As some of the other posters have mentioned tail to tip is the key to a good fit.

    I have 10 days or so on mine and haven't had any issues. :

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    2,352
    Dude, hit me up when your back in washington and I'll hold your hand through your skin problems. Your issues are easily fixed.

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    S. SEA
    Posts
    289
    Quote Originally Posted by samthaman View Post
    Dude, hit me up when your back in washington and I'll hold your hand through your skin problems. Your issues are easily fixed.
    Typical Sam, always looking for an excuse for a little touchin' and rubbin'. I'm back in the PNW, lets do something.

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Bellingham, WA
    Posts
    593
    Quote Originally Posted by chmnyboy View Post
    Typical Sam, always looking for an excuse for a little touchin' and rubbin'. I'm back in the PNW, lets do something.
    You guys down for a threeway?
    Let us so live that when we come to die even the undertaker will be sorry - Mark Twain

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