Thread: Scientists? Microscope help

So Mrs. Flounder is getting her Masters in science education. I am looking to get her a microscope to use. In researching scopes I have come across amscopes.com and microscopenet.com. Both of these claim to assemble their own scopes from parts that come "from the same assembly lines as major manufacturers" and thus they are priced really well.

Anyone have any experience with these companies? I usually believe you get what you pay for and I am thus very skeptical. We are looking to spend about $1500 or so for a good quality dissecting scope with 20-30x magnification, zoom capability, and lighting (preferably LED) so any other thoughts about what to get would be greatly appreciated.

http://www.labx.com/v2/spiderdealer2...?LVid=10139259

Done.

seriously do not understand why she needs a microscope of her own.

either the school provides labs in which all students share and check out microscopes (your tuition money), or the research lab group she works for buys the microscope. (the PI's funding, via your tax money)

used on ebay.

paid 10 cents on the dollar for mine.

Originally Posted by keipow

seriously do not understand why she needs a microscope of her own.

either the school provides labs in which all students share and check out microscopes (your tuition money), or the research lab group she works for buys the microscope. (the PI's funding, via your tax money)

She will be using scopes at the colleges that are tens of thousands of dollars and will capture the images she needs to have published. The microscope for herself is to do preliminary work and identify samples and narrow down the amount of time she needs on the big scopes. She also loves science and will use the scope for a lot of other projects. She has wanted one for awhile and this is an excuse to get one.

Originally Posted by Flounder

We are looking to spend about $1500 or so for a good quality dissecting scope with 20-30x magnification, zoom capability, and lighting (preferably LED) so any other thoughts about what to get would be greatly appreciated.

20-30X dissecting scope? What the fuck is she dissecting, head lice?

Anywho, there are companies that sell used laboratory/teaching equipment, often refurbished. You can probably find a nice deal on a 80K RPM ultracentrifuge and surprise her with that.

For 20-30X scopes, keep an eye out for the usual names in the photographic field: Nikon, Olympus, Pentax, Zeiss, etc. They all make very nice scopes and you ought to be able to find one in excellent condition (maybe refurbed) for your budget.

Originally Posted by Viva

20-30X dissecting scope? What the fuck is she dissecting, head lice?

Not quite but just as small. She is researching tardigrades and the scope will be to put the moss/lichen on to determine the presence of them. She will then isolate, process and head to the big scopes at the college. At least I think that is the process!

Thanks all. Keeping an eye on eBay and checking a lot of refurbished sites. Want to get a good name and not risk the off brands and bad optics.

Well, it depends entirely on what her main emphasis will be. If you're talking $1500 ballpark I'd go well-made older used model. Professional/graduate quality scopes are usually well cared for.

I've used a lot of scopes in my work.

Things to look for:

Very smooth action on the fine-tuning. Nothing worse than losing a specimen on the slide because the fine-tuning did a hiccup!

Some lenses come with a built-in very fine grid pattern overlayed onto the lens. That's class.

Very good lighting in consistent pattern...no shadowing effect.

TRUE stereo dioptics....so it should have separately adjustable diopters for eye correction...otherwise fine lens quality becomes moot! I've had to spend literally HOURS at a scope...those separate diopter adjustments cut down on eye-strain and are your FRIEND!

Don't even think about a single ocular scope (unless it's got Zeiss lensing...and then keep it for sentimental sake)...they're a pain in the ass.

With microscopes, the heavier they are, the more stable the imagery. Pick it up. If you can barely pick it up, it might be a good one.

An input for photomicrography...if you're getting a decent scope...make sure it has a set-up to at least take a film camera. Digital..even better!!!

The best units are Zeiss and Leitz but they're PRICEY!!!

Bausch and Lomb is decent, too. Professional lab grade Bausch and Lomb are also pricey...not so much for student grade.

But if you want QUALITY AND price-point....I'd actually go with Nikon. They have fantastic optics...maybe not Zeiss but close....and shitloads cheaper!

Something like this stereo Nikon is selling used for $795...and that is a LOT of scope for HALF what you're talking about. Why pay $1500 when you don't need to???

Get this...or the next model up with photomicrography port...I don't see the port on this one..it should be on the head.

Nikon SMZ-1B $795 used.





NOTE: And if she does or will be doing a lot of field work and needs top speciate something with a scope but none around....here's a nifty trick I use:

Turn your field binoculars around and look through the other end...using a penlight or headlamp to light up the specimen...way better magnification than a simple monocle.

Try it...it works!!!

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this appears to be a time when the wordiness of AKR is most welcome...

kudos, good sir.

Originally Posted by Alaskan Rover

Get this...or the next model up with photomicrography port...I don't see the port on this one..it should be on the head.

Nikon SMZ-1B $795 used.



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Thanks for the great detail. Too bad that Nikon at that site is sold! I have been looking for used based upon advice here and Nikon is on the list. It's nice to have a recommendation on a model. The only downside is she is itching to get a scope immediately so the pressure is on to find one.

That site has an American Optical StereoStar with Baush and Lombe optics, I think that is what B&L optics means. Any thoughts on that unit? At $695 it looks like a good deal and seems to hit your criteria. For that price I can get her a nice camera for it as well.

Originally Posted by Flounder

...and lighting (preferably LED) ...

Regarding lighting: I don't know a single good dissecting -meaning stereo- microscope that has a decent build-in light. LED's have become very powerful, but only the rather recent ones. If you go for used equip, a cold light source might be the best. Ringlights are nice, when you'll use a lot of liquid and reflections are an issue, but I find the two-arm lamps more versatile. IMHO Zeiss is also here best choice, while Schott does some decent models, too. Both offer already quite some nice stuff in the smallest model range.

These Schott (or similar -exist under different labels: Zeiss, Leica or others) are often available as a good used option:

(it's a KL750 - with a 75W bulb it offers decent lighting. The KL 1500 brings double the Watt plus a dimming function, but is quite a bit pricier).

Unfortunately, the price for a good light source can easily compete with the mic itself. But it's worth to have a "fitting" set in regard of performance. A great quality microscope is worth nothing, when you'll always suffer from dark specimen and the best light source cannot overcome glass limitations. Although in my eyes, a well lit specimen under an average microscope is still better handleable, than if it's the other way around.

It becomes a different story, if you'll need transmission light, though.
Then build-in lights are back in business. Or you'll need a lighted specimen table.


Regarding pics: A build-in camera adaptor (or one that replaces an eye-piece) is indeed nice. However, if you want to save money here, it's often not too tricky to fix your pocket cam with some DIY rubber rings into the ocular. Not the best but for occasional picture taking working fine enough.

Thanks Knut. She doesnt need light transmission. Her advisor recommended a light above and a light at 45 degrees from the side and said even an LED flashlight could work. Found a few interesting used scopes so far. Definitely seems to be the way to go instead of the AM Scopes that clog up eBay and google! I am just starting to look at light sources and realizing what is built into the stands is often sub par. Probably need an attachment as you showed. Found a nice used Zeiss with a light source and I am trying to clarify what the light source is and what optics are included.

I know the wallet is in for a beating but between the new skis I have coming and the basement full of power tools I am not in a bargaining position! I also believe in buying quality items once instead of cheap crap that you end up replacing over and over.

Originally Posted by Flounder

... I also believe in buying quality items once instead of cheap crap that you end up replacing over and over.

why do you hate America?

Pricey, but under your cost ceiling. If the sight of this doesn't make your ol' lady's pussy tingle, slap her and make get a CPA instead, 'cause science will never be her forte.

Here: http://www.biosurplus.com/store/prod...-olympus-sz40/

Biosurplus has cheaper stuff, too. Ask for a student discount.

Originally Posted by Flounder

Not quite but just as small. She is researching tardigrades and the scope will be to put the moss/lichen on to determine the presence of them. She will then isolate, process and head to the big scopes at the college. At least I think that is the process!

In that case, you might very well want to look into a stand like this:



For doing isolations and such at the lower magnifications.....a stand like that above is a god-send...easier than working on a tray when a tray isn't needed. That's the same Nikon SMZ-1B pictured, just lifted off the standard tray stand and put in an arm stand.

The cool thing about the better scopes is they made to swap like that as needed. Something to think about!

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Thanks everyone, especially Alaskan Rover and Knut. The advice of everyone to find a good used scope really paid off. I spent some time on eBay and Labx.com over the past few days. While searching the other night I came across Vermont Optechs and they are right near by. Emailed on Wednesday night, got a call yesterday and visited today. The guy was awesome and spent about 3 hours with us. it was kinda surreal being in a warehouse piles with probably millions of dollars of scopes and parts. He has so many scopes from forensic units to high end surgical units.

He has an unmarked building that we have driven past hundreds of times. He buys old scopes, mostly from the manufactures or dealers that take them in trade. He then tunes them up and sells the to businesses and universities all over the world. He deals only in good quality scopes from Leica, Wild, Zeiss, Nikon and a couple of Olympus units. He taught us a ton about scopes and we tried a couple out. He sent us home with this to try for the weekend.



It is a Nikon SMZ 2T. It will be right about on budget for the scope, stand and optics. The mrs has been using it non stop for about 5 hours so far and loving it. It looks brand new, not a scratch on it and crystal clear optics. We will bring it back early next week and he will tune it up and fit a light ring from parts he has. Of course we will pay him as well!

Next up is and upgrade of the old Canon SLR to a new DSLR to hook up to the scope. This guy spent years as a photographer before getting into scopes and he has promised lessons and advice in getting the best photos. Also probably going to be looking at other optics and lenses as time goes on.

Again thanks for all the great advice. She ended up with a scope that is so much better than we would have.

Wow, sounds like you couldn't have found a better place to get it from. Nice, that it worked out so well.

I LOVE that this thread exists on TGR. I'm a biophysics graduate student and build and use microscopes regularly, although they're all confocal laser-based instruments. It just goes to show what a kickass userbase TGR really has. Word.

Where are you (i.e, BU, Tufts, MIT, et al), dark_star and is you studying?

Viva, I'm a PhD student at Harvard but I work at one of the local teaching hospitals. You around here as well?

No, west coast. Helping to build UC Merced into the next Berkeley. A few friends went to Boston area for their thesis/postdoc work.

Originally Posted by Flounder

Thanks everyone, especially Alaskan Rover and Knut. The advice of everyone to find a good used scope really paid off. I spent some time on eBay and Labx.com over the past few days. While searching the other night I came across Vermont Optechs and they are right near by. Emailed on Wednesday night, got a call yesterday and visited today. The guy was awesome and spent about 3 hours with us. it was kinda surreal being in a warehouse piles with probably millions of dollars of scopes and parts. He has so many scopes from forensic units to high end surgical units.

He has an unmarked building that we have driven past hundreds of times. He buys old scopes, mostly from the manufactures or dealers that take them in trade. He then tunes them up and sells the to businesses and universities all over the world. He deals only in good quality scopes from Leica, Wild, Zeiss, Nikon and a couple of Olympus units. He taught us a ton about scopes and we tried a couple out. He sent us home with this to try for the weekend.



It is a Nikon SMZ 2T. It will be right about on budget for the scope, stand and optics. The mrs has been using it non stop for about 5 hours so far and loving it. It looks brand new, not a scratch on it and crystal clear optics. We will bring it back early next week and he will tune it up and fit a light ring from parts he has. Of course we will pay him as well!

Next up is and upgrade of the old Canon SLR to a new DSLR to hook up to the scope. This guy spent years as a photographer before getting into scopes and he has promised lessons and advice in getting the best photos. Also probably going to be looking at other optics and lenses as time goes on.

Again thanks for all the great advice. She ended up with a scope that is so much better than we would have.

Glad I could be of help, Flounder. Those SMZ series Nikons are nice units. Sorry the pix of that swing arm stand didn't work...don't know what happened to it. Anyway, on most SMZ series, you can switch the unit from one stand to another. Those "arm" stands (right-clicking on that dead image above should bring up the properties, and you can then go to that site to view image) come in SUPER handy for scoping lichen, mold sporifida, etc that would not normally fit under a regular stand....like a small LOG!!

Glad you got one with a photo-tube....now she can really get into the prospects of photomicrography AT HOME!!

Glad everything worked out...and that seller seems perfect.

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Oh the guy has a boom arm already to go when we need it! Also has a light box base as well. We played around with both in his shop. The wife is really happy with the scope, it is comfortable for hours and with the extra 2x lens it goes to 120 magnification. You can see the claws and the eggs of the tardigrades. Pretty wild little creatures, and amazing that you can find them in pretty much every moss or lichen sample around here. From the samples she took while I skinned Smuggs a couple of weeks ago to samples from right outside our house.