Results 1 to 22 of 22
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Washington Grown
    Posts
    236

    Altering base bevel to play with camber profile

    Has anyone messed with multiple edge base bevels along the running length of the ski?

    For example a rocker/camber/rocker ski. Could one put a 3 base bevel past all rocker points and 1 base bevel along the cambered portion? It would basically take the place of detuning.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Tahorado
    Posts
    23,945
    I know guys and girls who do that and call it progressive beveling. Especially as spring approaches and you can get bits of freeze and chunder that can allow chunks to catch off the rise, causing momentary deflections. I consider it more precise than just dulling the edge on a down and dirty detune but, I'm a dirtbag, so rocks and lift towers are typically my primary detuning tools if I feel I need to do it.
    We don't make the snow. We just make it more enjoyable.


    Git Your FKNA On!

    You Like?

    fkna.com

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Washington Grown
    Posts
    236
    I'm planning on doing this on my CRJs which seems low risk. Glad to hear I'm not the first.

    I'm also considering doing it on my Viciks. I detuned the tails on my Viciks to make them more pivoty and I'm thinking making the detune a bevel would make them even more loose while retaining the good bite I get out of the rest of the ski. If I progressively bevel the flat tail you think that will create some weird interaction during a carve?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Tahorado
    Posts
    23,945
    It's one of those pioneering tunes specific to each ski that you'll just have to play with to perfect. The bigger bevel will affect increased edge release in the tail and less ganking of chunks through the tip rise. A hand kit in the car will prove more fruitful to experience the dif run to run rather than waiting until you get home to adjust it, for sure.
    We don't make the snow. We just make it more enjoyable.


    Git Your FKNA On!

    You Like?

    fkna.com

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    retired
    Posts
    12,670
    if you feel really ambitious, you can also play with the depth you run the bevel into the base to make the ski even looser off-edge without loosing the performance on-slope.
    go for rob

    www.dpsskis.com

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Tahorado
    Posts
    23,945
    This group of Swiss bro modelers swear by it and have probably done it to every pair of those skis they're holding.
    They send me updates about it and how well it works for them.

    We don't make the snow. We just make it more enjoyable.


    Git Your FKNA On!

    You Like?

    fkna.com

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    East Maui/East Vail
    Posts
    3,090
    Quote Originally Posted by splat View Post
    I'm a dirtbag, so rocks and lift towers are typically my primary detuning tools if I feel I need to do it.
    Uh, I do that, does that make me a dirtbag?

    Can I hang around and buy you drinks?

    I was gonna buy a leatherman with a file, but...

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Washington Grown
    Posts
    236
    Interesting to hear it's prevalent among your users Splat.

    Marshal - do you mean vary the pressure with which I push the file into the base?

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Tahorado
    Posts
    23,945
    Quote Originally Posted by Crampedon View Post
    Uh, I do that, does that make me a dirtbag?

    Can I hang around and buy you drinks?

    I was gonna buy a leatherman with a file, but...

    Yeah, you can hang around.
    But only if you're buying....

    Gitch your ass out here for the Mammoth mini, boy.
    You'd fukkin love it!
    We don't make the snow. We just make it more enjoyable.


    Git Your FKNA On!

    You Like?

    fkna.com

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Renoenvy
    Posts
    9,289
    Quote Originally Posted by klikboom View Post
    Interesting to hear it's prevalent among your users Splat.

    Marshal - do you mean vary the pressure with which I push the file into the base?
    no - how far *into* the base the bevel carries, like not just the edge, but the edge AND 1/2cm of base material too...
    ... jfost is really ignorant, he often just needs simple facts laid out for him...

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    The North Country
    Posts
    773
    Quote Originally Posted by splat View Post
    I know guys and girls who do that and call it progressive beveling.
    My old Stormrider Frys, the orange ones, came with a base bevel flat underfoot that progressed to 1.5 degrees at the tip and tail. From what I heard at the time, a tuner told me that that was an old WC DH ski tune, with them sometimes flat underfoot progressing to 2 or 2.5 at the tip and tail. The bigger the base bevel, the straighter the skis will run. But, they will engage edges only at higher speed. At WC DH speeds, I guess tht makes sense. I thought my Frys were skittish, so I had them done 1 degree on the base and 1 on the side. I liked them better, but I could have given the original factory tune more of a chance, but I was impatient back then.

    Btw, if you bevel the base in conjunction with the base edge, the skis will "canoe" or run straigh really well & engage an edge more slowly and at a higher speed. But I think the advice you've gotten here to try stuff, to experiment, is best. Different skis behave differently with the same tune. And powder is a whole different thing if that's what you're going for.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    East Maui/East Vail
    Posts
    3,090
    Quote Originally Posted by splat View Post
    Yeah, you can hang around.
    But only if you're buying....

    Gitch your ass out here for the Mammoth mini, boy.
    You'd fukkin love it!
    Dates? Snow? Always ready, hookers and blow?

    http://hookersandblow.org/

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Verdi NV
    Posts
    5,741
    I think it causes the tips to start to engage and then release, the faster you go and more angle you create the worse it gets. when I am moving and decide I want to turn (RIGHT THERE) and the ski lets go halfway through, I get kinda pissed (And maybe hurt)

    But some people really do not like an aggressive tune, to each his own
    Own your fail. ~Jer~

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Edmonton, Alberta
    Posts
    676
    Quote Originally Posted by splat View Post
    I know guys and girls who do that and call it progressive beveling. Especially as spring approaches and you can get bits of freeze and chunder that can allow chunks to catch off the rise, causing momentary deflections. I consider it more precise than just dulling the edge on a down and dirty detune but, I'm a dirtbag, so rocks and lift towers are typically my primary detuning tools if I feel I need to do it.
    Maybe that comes with skiing bros (the detuning on rocks, not the dirtbagness)

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Duh.Rango.
    Posts
    774
    Quote Originally Posted by klikboom View Post
    Could one put a 3 base bevel past all rocker points and 1 base bevel along the cambered portion? It would basically take the place of detuning.
    Been wanting to do this to my atlases because the tips are a little hooky in thick snow and wind buff. You might want to start with a 1.5* and ease your way into it, though. 3* is a lot, and tough to get rid of if you go overboard. You can always increase your bevel later, decreasing it is going to mean removing quite a bit of material.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Chamonix
    Posts
    666
    This is nothing new. The shop I worked at in 05/06 tuned base edges at 1 degree underfoot and 3 degrees tip and tail, transitioning gradually between them.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    1,087
    In the late 90's I was patrolling, tuning my skis in a patrol shack being heckled for detuning tips and tails. "Just bevel them!" So I did. Then I began experimenting with multiple bevels on the base edge. I think I could feel it when I brought my tips/tails' base edge to 3 degrees while keeping it flat under foot. They seemed smoother transitioning. (Rossi Excess, the GS ski of then.)

    I don't vary base bevels anymore, too much work, but I do bevel my fat skis at 3 degrees base-side throughout the length of the ski to keep them loose. The edge is still there when I need to throw them sideways on firmer snow and out of my way when I don't want them-- which is usually.

    If you're thinking of experimenting a bit, do so. But don't be afraid to take the whole edge off the snow for skis you like to surf. I can't come up with a reason to keep a 1* base bevel underfoot on my pow skis-- nor can I come up with a reason to taper the bevel.

    Hard snow skis on the other hand makes way more sense. .5* underfoot to 2* tip/tail would be welcomed on my groomer-zoomers. I just don't care enough to maintain that shape.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Washington Grown
    Posts
    236
    thanks for the input, I'll try it out this weekend and report back. This weekend it will be in-bounds hardpack, but the ski itself is my dynafit touring rig, so it's nearly an all soft snow ski. I'm going to keep 1 underfoot and bevel out to 1.5 tips/tails for the first try.

    I did my Mojo 90s at 2 base a couple years ago when I was just starting to tune. I thought I'd give it a try to see what more base bevel feels like. I did not like it. It was SO loose it felt like i was walking on ice with tennis shoes.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    off on yet another Tangent
    Posts
    1,516
    A reminder to keep in the back of your head: if you decide to reduce the base bevel, you'll need to get a base grind or plane the base.

    Also, FWIW, a radial tune is a term used synonymous with progressive tune.

    Zoning is another approach as described by SkiVisions where you vary the sharpness along the edge. Sharper under foot and lessen towards the tips and tails. To allow for grip and slip sections of the edge.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Washington Grown
    Posts
    236
    that blog / site had a wealth of information. I don't used my bastard file and went ~1.1 full length, then 1.5 on the tip and tails. I went about an inch before the contact point on the tip, and 4 inches from the end of the edge on the tail. I'll see if that changes how the ski skis and I'll bring my bevel to the hill.

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Nottingham, UK
    Posts
    315
    I tune my Llasas to 1,3 with a 1.5 base bevel on the tip rocker. This gives great edge hold when required & no catching on variable snow. I certainly wouldn't do more than a 2 base on the rocker.

    I never detune customer's skis/boards. If they are a bit hooky then adding base bevel at the contact points is preferable to detuning as it gives more progressive edge engagement but still gives full length sharpness.

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    San Francisco
    Posts
    122
    Apologies if this too off topic...

    I had my cochise and 07/08 gotamas recently tuned and it seems like both skis have lost some bite in hardpack. The gotama never really had it but the cochise went from having good edge hold with the original factory tune to being kind of "slippery" on hard snow... I don't know what they set the base and side edge but I think it was a 1 & 1. Any tuning suggestions on how to get the edge hold back?
    The K-12 dude. You make a gnarly run like that and girls will get sterile just looking at you - Charles De Mar

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •