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04-03-2012, 12:43 PM #1
Altering base bevel to play with camber profile
Has anyone messed with multiple edge base bevels along the running length of the ski?
For example a rocker/camber/rocker ski. Could one put a 3° base bevel past all rocker points and 1° base bevel along the cambered portion? It would basically take the place of detuning.
04-03-2012, 12:56 PM #2
I know guys and girls who do that and call it progressive beveling. Especially as spring approaches and you can get bits of freeze and chunder that can allow chunks to catch off the rise, causing momentary deflections. I consider it more precise than just dulling the edge on a down and dirty detune but, I'm a dirtbag, so rocks and lift towers are typically my primary detuning tools if I feel I need to do it.
04-03-2012, 01:02 PM #3
I'm planning on doing this on my CRJs which seems low risk. Glad to hear I'm not the first.
I'm also considering doing it on my Viciks. I detuned the tails on my Viciks to make them more pivoty and I'm thinking making the detune a bevel would make them even more loose while retaining the good bite I get out of the rest of the ski. If I progressively bevel the flat tail you think that will create some weird interaction during a carve?
04-03-2012, 01:13 PM #4
It's one of those pioneering tunes specific to each ski that you'll just have to play with to perfect. The bigger bevel will affect increased edge release in the tail and less ganking of chunks through the tip rise. A hand kit in the car will prove more fruitful to experience the dif run to run rather than waiting until you get home to adjust it, for sure.
04-03-2012, 01:35 PM #5
if you feel really ambitious, you can also play with the depth you run the bevel into the base to make the ski even looser off-edge without loosing the performance on-slope.go for rob
04-03-2012, 01:53 PM #6
This group of Swiss bro modelers swear by it and have probably done it to every pair of those skis they're holding.
They send me updates about it and how well it works for them.
04-03-2012, 01:56 PM #7
04-03-2012, 02:05 PM #8
Interesting to hear it's prevalent among your users Splat.
Marshal - do you mean vary the pressure with which I push the file into the base?
04-03-2012, 02:37 PM #9
04-03-2012, 03:03 PM #10... jfost is really ignorant, he often just needs simple facts laid out for him...
04-03-2012, 05:11 PM #11Registered User
- Join Date
- Oct 2009
- The North Country
Btw, if you bevel the base in conjunction with the base edge, the skis will "canoe" or run straigh really well & engage an edge more slowly and at a higher speed. But I think the advice you've gotten here to try stuff, to experiment, is best. Different skis behave differently with the same tune. And powder is a whole different thing if that's what you're going for.
04-03-2012, 05:23 PM #12
04-03-2012, 05:53 PM #13?
- Join Date
- Jul 2005
- Verdi NV
I think it causes the tips to start to engage and then release, the faster you go and more angle you create the worse it gets. when I am moving and decide I want to turn (RIGHT THERE) and the ski lets go halfway through, I get kinda pissed (And maybe hurt)
But some people really do not like an aggressive tune, to each his ownOwn your fail. ~Jer~
04-03-2012, 09:16 PM #14
04-03-2012, 11:06 PM #15
04-04-2012, 02:37 AM #16Registered User
- Join Date
- Apr 2004
This is nothing new. The shop I worked at in 05/06 tuned base edges at 1 degree underfoot and 3 degrees tip and tail, transitioning gradually between them.
04-04-2012, 07:56 AM #17
In the late 90's I was patrolling, tuning my skis in a patrol shack being heckled for detuning tips and tails. "Just bevel them!" So I did. Then I began experimenting with multiple bevels on the base edge. I think I could feel it when I brought my tips/tails' base edge to 3 degrees while keeping it flat under foot. They seemed smoother transitioning. (Rossi Excess, the GS ski of then.)
I don't vary base bevels anymore, too much work, but I do bevel my fat skis at 3 degrees base-side throughout the length of the ski to keep them loose. The edge is still there when I need to throw them sideways on firmer snow and out of my way when I don't want them-- which is usually.
If you're thinking of experimenting a bit, do so. But don't be afraid to take the whole edge off the snow for skis you like to surf. I can't come up with a reason to keep a 1* base bevel underfoot on my pow skis-- nor can I come up with a reason to taper the bevel.
Hard snow skis on the other hand makes way more sense. .5* underfoot to 2* tip/tail would be welcomed on my groomer-zoomers. I just don't care enough to maintain that shape.
04-04-2012, 08:58 AM #18
thanks for the input, I'll try it out this weekend and report back. This weekend it will be in-bounds hardpack, but the ski itself is my dynafit touring rig, so it's nearly an all soft snow ski. I'm going to keep 1° underfoot and bevel out to 1.5 tips/tails for the first try.
I did my Mojo 90s at 2° base a couple years ago when I was just starting to tune. I thought I'd give it a try to see what more base bevel feels like. I did not like it. It was SO loose it felt like i was walking on ice with tennis shoes.
04-05-2012, 08:35 AM #19
A reminder to keep in the back of your head: if you decide to reduce the base bevel, you'll need to get a base grind or plane the base.
Also, FWIW, a radial tune is a term used synonymous with progressive tune.
Zoning is another approach as described by SkiVisions where you vary the sharpness along the edge. Sharper under foot and lessen towards the tips and tails. To allow for grip and slip sections of the edge.
04-05-2012, 09:51 AM #20
that blog / site had a wealth of information. I don't used my bastard file and went ~1.1° full length, then 1.5° on the tip and tails. I went about an inch before the contact point on the tip, and 4 inches from the end of the edge on the tail. I'll see if that changes how the ski skis and I'll bring my bevel to the hill.
04-07-2012, 09:08 AM #21
I tune my Llasas to 1,3 with a 1.5 base bevel on the tip rocker. This gives great edge hold when required & no catching on variable snow. I certainly wouldn't do more than a 2 base on the rocker.
I never detune customer's skis/boards. If they are a bit hooky then adding base bevel at the contact points is preferable to detuning as it gives more progressive edge engagement but still gives full length sharpness.
04-07-2012, 11:07 AM #22Registered User
- Join Date
- Sep 2007
- San Francisco
Apologies if this too off topic...
I had my cochise and 07/08 gotamas recently tuned and it seems like both skis have lost some bite in hardpack. The gotama never really had it but the cochise went from having good edge hold with the original factory tune to being kind of "slippery" on hard snow... I don't know what they set the base and side edge but I think it was a 1 & 1. Any tuning suggestions on how to get the edge hold back?The K-12 dude. You make a gnarly run like that and girls will get sterile just looking at you - Charles De Mar