Thread: Targhee adopts two class pass system- tell them NO!

Originally Posted by neckdeep

Or we could go with my suggestion, comment on the facebook page under the announcement for the new pass. Nothing inappropriate please, just give them legit customer feedback. Maybe the employee who is deleting the negative customer responses will kick the feedback up the foodchain. It's not just me. I was asked by another early in line local to post a facebook comment and a lot of us plan to be voicing our opinions on this in person over the next month. So if a few hundred more customers complain in a constructive manner, it can't hurt.

Not to be a dick, but if you (and a fair number of other Targhee passholders) aren't willing to vote with your wallets and ski elsewhere, then all this bluster won't do anything. You'll kick up a fuss, management might make some face-saving concession to make you feel better while keeping the new ticket tiers largely in place, and come next winter some number of skiers will be lapping you for an hour on pow days. Making a stink on facebook and tgr can only get you so far.

lots of places have 'early up' programs, i generally disagree with them but i've never skied the ghee and don't know how it would change the mountain. But something in your initial post bothers me; while these new super passes would allow the owner early access to the mountain on a daily basis, how does that work on days where control work is required?

Again, this comes back to my lack of knowledge about the ghee, but on most good powder days here in utah patrol is just finishing up their bombing as the resort is scheduled to open, and often the good lifts/areas are further delayed. This means that the 'early up' people start at the same time as us normal folk. They might get first chair, but certainly not first lap.

Now if the ghee is talking about delaying general access so these 'early up' people always get their first tracks, that is a whole different beast...

Originally Posted by doughboyshredder

LOL, skiing already is a rich white person sport.

An average inner city kid has little to no chance of ever getting up on the mountain.

Well, said.

Average... I would say the 95% of inner city kids rarely interact with nature beyond a heavily trampled city park. Sadly there are so many people who don't have access to those experiences that would lead to them to explore further and afar and discover the value of wild places. Skiing/snowboarding on a big mtn resort is a luxury for most Americans... Let alone just getting the equipment, lessons, etc.

It is sad to see the "class distinctions" created within snow enthusiasts. Resort Mgmt can raise prices on all tickets and build more uphill capacity, or, let those who are willing to pay the price for those XTRA privledges fund access for the rest of us to brown-bag lunches on the lift chairs.

Frankly, i got skins and an AT setup. These allowed me to find the places where i really wanted to be and njoy the untracked w/o competition for 1st turns.

Originally Posted by thudder

... but if you (and a fair number of other Targhee passholders) aren't willing to vote with your wallets and ski elsewhere, then all this bluster won't do anything...

so true... thnx.

Early Tracks is commonly a group of 6-8 with 2 guides. The guides are in constant contact with Patrol and Snowcats.

4 runs before only 300 people rush the gates. I can't believe people care, either BUY the Ultimate Pass or wait till the resort opens. It's worth it either way! To each their own.

Usually free refills all day.
It's been a rough year and it's showing in this thread...

Cash rules and money speaks, if you don't like it, don't ski there. Simple as that

Last time I checked there is a far superior ski area within an hours drive and I'm pretty sure skiing on the pass is free.

Crying on the interwebz accomplishes little

capitalism is a bitch eh?!

This has been going on at snowmass for a while now. Not really a big deal since most of these people cannot ski well, and by the time bums like me get to access the lifts patrol is usually STILL throwing shots in the gated terrain.


Dooes it kind of suck that your resort is selling out, yes. I don't really mind joe gaper noodling around below me on sams knob on my way up.

Early tracks pgm is not new at the ghee, $49 or $29 if slopeside. Did so 8 more people when no crowds anyways, meh. The ghee is good

The alternative is to encourage a different model for the ski industry: www.bogusbasin.org

If we, as the consumers, let the real estate speculators build all our resorts, we will have resorts designed to serve the needs of real estate speculators. That's great if you have a shitton of money, as I've seen visiting my brother in Big Sky who has a shitton of money. But every time I'm there (or in one of the other real estate based resorts) I see a place where a legit, middle (or lower) class skier is going to get pissed on constantly by high prices and privileges for the rich.

There are at least three models out there that present an alternative that would avoid the issues raised by teh OP. One is the community-owned resort, the second is a resort run as a non-profit (Bogus Basin is an example, there are others), and the Mountain Riders Alliance (much maligned on this forum) is trying to offer a third. The choices are ours.

^^^ I wouldn't say Big Sky is a big time real estate based resort.

No reason to earn anything anymore. If you can buy it why not. Sad thing really. Skiing has always been elitist but paying to cut to the front of the line should not be part of ski culture. How would you feel if Cosco and Grocery stores started doing this?

I say give the ultimate pass holders Blackfoot. I never go over there anyway.

This whole thread reeks of dirtbag whining. This program may keep the cost of your pass down.

Originally Posted by montanaskier

^^^ I wouldn't say Big Sky is a big time real estate based resort.

I always perceived it that way, and understood that was basically the Boyne model. But it's not like I've studied it in any depth.

Two thoughts
If I stopped skiing every resort that had something I did not like I would be a hut traveler and I like lifts
I find everytime I tell a big corporation something I don't like about them they rarely listen, but it is a free country. JH has issues as well so does every resort, see pt1
Oh and freedom ain't free
Most little resorts (ghee is really a ski area anyways) are just scraping by

Mammoth has what they call a Black Pass. It costs 10k. It gives members early ups, and line cutting privileges. I would not pay that much, as I would rather pay the 659$ I pay for my pass, and go heli-skiing. If the pass were 1,659$....I still would not do it, but it would become more tempting. I believe there are other resorts that do this, so the idea is nothing new.

I think part of the issue, is that the pass is not extreme in terms of price difference, it is an additional 1k. If it were 10k, you really would not see many people making the purchase. There are not many Mammoth Black Pass folks, so I don't see the situation as all that much of a problem. With the Targhee pass price, I can see why that could screw things up.

Pass prices are a funny issue. During my ski bum days, I lived in Tahoe and skied at Squaw. The early full pass 'deal' was 1,250, or something like that. After that, it went up to 1,650. Lots of locals bought midweek passes, and lots of people worked part-time at the resort to get a season pass.

During the last few years, Squaw has implemented a new program, with lots of cheaper passes. It has supposedly become quite a shit-show on storm days, and many want a return to higher pass prices. I can see both sides of the argument.

Originally Posted by whyturn

Early tracks pgm is not new at the ghee, $49 or $29 if slopeside. Did so 8 more people when no crowds anyways, meh. The ghee is good

True, as a daily upgrade, early tracks usually draws only 10 to 20 skiers but if the resort manages to sell 100 or 200 or more of these ultimate passes (as I'm sure they would like to)...well, you can't deny some of the longest powder runs won't ever be the same for the rest of us who don't want to drop an extra $1000 for some jam band concerts and a swimming pool membership. Given the list price for those access privileges and six days of concerts, they are practically giving away the early tracks access so this may well create a sizable group of rich old farts and music enthusiasts out there making those wonderfully wide turns they do so well. And if the program sells well, are they really going to assign instructor/guides to that many people or do they get let off the leash, is what I'm wondering. Early Tracks was complained about when it started and we were reassured it was a limited program designed to generate jobs for the instructors who "guide". It would seem that reassurance was a load of bullshit so who's to say that early tracks will not be expanded to cover more and more desirable terrain and become, de facto, not a guided program but an early opening time for a couple hundred people.

seven summits!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! $17k!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

still cheaper than an alyeska season pass...

Originally Posted by neckdeep

True, as a daily upgrade, early tracks usually draws only 10 to 20 skiers but if the resort manages to sell 100 or 200 or more of these ultimate passes (as I'm sure they would like to)...well, you can't deny some of the longest powder runs won't ever be the same for the rest of us who don't want to drop an extra $1000 for some jam band concerts and a swimming pool membership. Given the list price for those access privileges and six days of concerts, they are practically giving away the early tracks access so this may well create a sizable group of rich old farts out there making those wonderfully wide turns they do so well. If the program sells well, are they really going to assign instructor/guides to that many people or do they get let off the leash, is what I'm wondering. Early Tracks was complained about when it started and we were reassured it was a limited program designed to generate jobs for the instructors who "guide". It would seem that reassurance was a load of bullshit so who's to say that early tracks will not be expanded to cover more and more desirable terrain.

My man ... it's $1K, not $100K. The ability to pay $1K does not make you a "rich old fart," it makes you smart by first tracks standards. Find a way to make some money and pony up. Then go slay.

I already slayed cuz I get in line. Getting in line used to be "smart" enough for a few hundred people. Why should I be thrilled at a new $1000 fee tripling my pass price to get what we already had? Why would anyone unless they can't get up early and can't ski fast enough to compete with the two or three hundred people in line. First they got rid of the vert value pass. Then they eliminated payment plans during the recession. Now its upscaling an existing service. It's just a classic burden shift from Skeezy Marketing 101. Take a level of service away from one group of customers without reducing their fees and then turn around and sell that level of service at a premium to an upscale consumer. Voila, any cost is externalized to the customer that got shorted. Recognize the model? It is real popular in American health insurance and healthcare and banking and credit services....and now proudly featured at lil' ol' targhee. We finally made the big time and without building 500 mansions or even a lift that works consistenly during bad weather. I always expected Targhee to go upscale...but, I dunno, maybe I was naive in expecting that the resort would, maybe, um....build something new to justify this before they tried it.

I guess that's the difference. You see problem, I see opportunity. It's obvious from the numbers at other resorts that this is a pretty good deal.

Sell a little plasma, sperm, and marrow. Done.

Oh, I see opportunity all right. I see an opportunity to get fleeced for something for which I used to pay a lot less. I see an opportunity to lose more riding friends who have too many kids, mortgages, college funds and bills and not enough time to put up with this shit. I'd heard the bossman had expressed frustration with "running a charity for local skiers" so I expect more opportunities like this one to be a' knockin' in the future.

I think that last post passed the line from frustration to flat out whining. You ski at a commercial resort. Somebody has plunked down millions of dollars to acquire land use rights, lifts, groomers, buildings, etc. They employ hundreds of people who need a paycheck every two weeks, plus insurance, taxes, etc. They have creditors who demand a payment every month. Have they just reduced the value of your season pass while maintaining the same price? Sure they have. And your decision is simply which of the available passes strikes you as being a value, if any. These are the terms if you choose to ski a commercial operation.