Thread: One thing I don't get about this Zimmerman/Martin thing

Digging up a few skeletons in the closet about Zimmy. Looks like he thinks being part peruvian is superior to being mexican. And all but admits he was at fault on some reduced felony charges. You go, Zimmy!!!! When you read this, it seems like he was begging for this Martin opportunity, if only Martin had no connection to the community and was hauling a bag of stolen goods around his vigilante dream woulda come true. Lesson to be learned when you decide to CCW and put yourself in a dangerous situation intentionally.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1471818.html

Too late for that, and it doesnt exactly take a psychological mastermind to fuck with hugh

Originally Posted by Moeghoul

Digging up a few skeletons in the closet about Zimmy. Looks like he thinks being part peruvian is superior to being mexican. And all but admits he was at fault on some reduced felony charges. You go, Zimmy!!!! When you read this, it seems like he was begging for this Martin opportunity, if only Martin had no connection to the community and was hauling a bag of stolen goods around his vigilante dream woulda come true. Lesson to be learned when you decide to CCW and put yourself in a dangerous situation intentionally.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1471818.html

But ILC said all hispanics are Spanish.

Originally Posted by Adolf Allerbush

But ILC said all hispanics are Spanish.

Eh, Rubi will prolly find a source that proves it's fake. we've seen this before with the MSM.

Originally Posted by ilikecandy

it doesnt exactly take a psychological mastermind to fuck with hugh

As you've proved

Does that transcript indicate that this took place @ 4 in the morning?

FOUR IN THE MORNING?

Originally Posted by MTT

Does that transcript indicate that this took place @ 4 in the morning?

No, Zimmerman called the police at 7:09 p.m. local time.

The numbers indicate elapsed time from the beginning of the call, presumably.

Originally Posted by Triage

That's the point. Zimmerman vetoed both suggestions because he was pursuing Martin throughout the call. He left his truck because he was following Martin and not because we was searching for an address.

Zimmerman followed Martin past the clubhouse, past the Mailboxes, then into the cut through after parking his truck perhaps because as the recording indicates he thought Martin was trying to escape through the back entrance of the community when in fact Martin was heading in the direction of the house where he was staying, not doubling back on Zimmerman's truck.

Martin was shot about 70yrds from that house after, according to Martin's girlfriend who claims to have heard the conversation, being confronted by Zimmerman.

If you you look at a map, when Zimmerman says Martin is running relative to his truck, Martin is quickly out of Zimmerman's line of sight when he goes around the corner of a building into a long corridor leading to Martin's house so it's not necessarily running per se. Your "logical explanation" is not very logical.

Your account doesn't even begin to match the timings.

2:14 truck door closes.
2:32 acknowledgement of not to follow

Assuming even a brisk walk since we don't hear shuffling feet or labored breathing but do hear wind noise in the phone. George could easily cover 40 yards during those 20 seconds (4mph walk) which would place him around the corner of the building (by 2:32) giving him the line of sight to declare "he ran" at 2:39.


You can hear the wind noise reduce after the request to stop following, obviously the rapid pace had either stopped or severely diminished meaning not only did George adhere to the requests but was also well within the area where Martin attacked him.

There isn't even a debate, not only had Martin run away but he also had to return in order to interact with Zimmerman. Any other notion would turn this into a first degree murder charge

Originally Posted by PNWbrit

As you've proved

shhhh ilikecandy thinks he's the wanker who makes the circlejerk go round

Originally Posted by whatcomridaz

George is clearly not running after him and his truck is parked meaning George is on foot.

Originally Posted by whatcomridaz

Your account doesn't even begin to match the timings.

2:14 truck door closes.
2:32 acknowledgement of not to follow

Assuming even a brisk walk since we don't hear shuffling feet or labored breathing but do hear wind noise in the phone. George could easily cover 40 yards during those 20 seconds (4mph walk) which would place him around the corner of the building (by 2:32) giving him the line of sight to declare "he ran" at 2:39.


You can hear the wind noise reduce after the request to stop following, obviously the rapid pace had either stopped or severely diminished meaning not only did George adhere to the requests but was also well within the area where Martin attacked him.

There isn't even a debate, not only had Martin run away but he also had to return in order to interact with Zimmerman. Any other notion would turn this into a first degree murder charge

I was addressing the fact that Zimmerman did in fact leave his truck to chase Martin when he saw Martin run which followed the main point from the previous page that Zimmerman was pursuing Martin rather than searching for an address as was claimed previously.



And that, according to Martin's girlfriend, we already know Trayvon decided not to keep running and, according to her, that Zimmerman confronted Martin, besides which, I've already written that Martin tragically chose to defend himself (according to the girlfriend) or fight (according to Zimmerman) rather than run home so we're not arguing that point.


Your timeline is also off a little* so Zimmerman would have needed to be moving faster than your theory calls for but that's secondary to the fact that Zimmerman did chase Martin and did not go back to his truck because the actual shooting took place around two corners away from the truck and a couple of minutes after the events you've described. What's known:

1. Zimmerman leaves his truck to pursue Martin when Martin runs
2. Martin gets away but does not run home
3. Zimmerman does not return to his truck to meet with police
4. ~two minutes later the confrontation resulting in Trayvon's death starts







*It's more like fourteen seconds after you stop hearing the door open chime that George acknowledges not to follow and another ten seconds after that when he says, "he ran" a second time which is proceeded by George running after him:

2:11 Zimmeran says, shit he's running
2:14 truck door opens.
2:18 open door chime stops
2:26 dispatcher asks Are you following him?
2:28 George says, "yeah"
2:29 dispatcher says we don't need you to follow
2:32 George acknowledges
2:42 After being asked for his name, George says, "he ran"

Originally Posted by Triage

I was addressing the fact that Zimmerman did in fact leave his truck to chase Martin when he saw Martin run which followed the main point from the previous page that Zimmerman was pursuing Martin rather than searching for an address as was claimed previously.



And that, according to Martin's girlfriend, we already know Trayvon decided not to keep running and, according to her, that Zimmerman confronted Martin, besides which, I've already written that Martin tragically chose to defend himself (according to the girlfriend) or fight (according to Zimmerman) rather than run home so we're not arguing that point.


Your timeline is also off a little* so Zimmerman would have needed to be moving faster than your theory calls for but that's secondary to the fact that Zimmerman did chase Martin and did not go back to his truck because the actual shooting took place around two corners away from the truck and a couple of minutes after the events you've described. What's known:

1. Zimmerman leaves his truck to pursue Martin when Martin runs
2. Martin gets away but does not run home
3. Zimmerman does not return to his truck to meet with police
4. ~two minutes later the confrontation resulting in Trayvon's death starts







*It's more like fourteen seconds after you stop hearing the door open chime that George acknowledges not to follow and another ten seconds after that when he says, "he ran" a second time which is proceeded by George running after him:

2:11 Zimmeran says, shit he's running
2:14 truck door opens.
2:18 open door chime stops
2:26 dispatcher asks Are you following him?
2:28 George says, "yeah"
2:29 dispatcher says we don't need you to follow
2:32 George acknowledges
2:42 After being asked for his name, George says, "he ran"

OK so we're in agreement that George would have been around those two corners since he was either running or walking very quickly (4+ mph) during the 14ish seconds. Worst case scenario he can see down the center space and that TM has "ran". The point is there is no proof that he ignored "we don't need you to follow request" since even at a reasonable pace at a he would have been present at the same location as the confrontation occurred.


So in the remaining few minutes either you're right and GZ walked the 70 yards down to the other house and then back in which case TM followed him back or I'm right and he did as instructed, he sat and waited for the police to arrive in the same area he was at during the 911 call and TM came and confronted him. Either way the confrontational interaction was started by TM.

Originally Posted by whatcomridaz

Either way the confrontational interaction was started by TM.

Really ?? What proof do you have of this ???

Originally Posted by Harry

Really ?? What proof do you have of this ???

Agreed. Not to mention an argument could be made that Zimmerman instigated the confrontation by following Martin in the first place. Why is this somehow OK, yet if Trayvon did ultimately decide to stand his ground he's all of a sudden the aggressor?

A bunch of bloody Perry Masons here;

Holiday Inn Express must have been full last night.

I say it was the butler in the library with a poker.

Originally Posted by The AD

Why is this somehow OK, yet if Trayvon did ultimately decide to stand his ground he's all of a sudden the aggressor?

Clearly....

he should have just had a gun?

Originally Posted by whatcomridaz

OK so we're in agreement that George would have been around those two corners since he was either running or walking very quickly (4+ mph) during the 14ish seconds. Worst case scenario he can see down the center space and that TM has "ran". The point is there is no proof that he ignored "we don't need you to follow request" since even at a reasonable pace at a he would have been present at the same location as the confrontation occurred.

Either way the confrontational interaction was started by TM.

Meh, not really and not necessarily. The speed would have to be more like 6+ mph to cover 40yrds in 14s or 7+ mph to cover 40yrds in 12s compared to the average human walking speed of around 3mph. It's also dark and Zimmerman is on the phone and it's another ten seconds after that when GZ says he ran a second time.

But that's a separate discussion. You're trying to make the defense case by essentially moving the goalpost because first it was said that GZ was looking for an address, then you stepped in and said, "George is clearly not running after him" when it's apparent that George leaves his truck to chase Martin. Then you said that George stopped pursuing Martin 12-14 seconds after the initial chase began but we know he's still looking and that he's still in the area for another 2-3 minutes rather than walking back to his truck. You also ignore Martin's girlfriend's account.

Point being, I'm not saying what did happen because I don't know, I'm primarily responding to the things we do know: 1) GZ was not looking for an address 2) GZ disregarded being told not to chase Martin and/or GZ does not return to his truck after being told he doesn't need to follow. 3) GZ vetos meeting by the mailboxes

Originally Posted by PNWbrit

As you've proved

umm, yeah, thats what i said. thanks for reinforcing it i guess?

the guy clearly has the emotional iq of a gnat, i am merely average

I'm thinking Zimmy went for the gun when they had words, and Martin punched him (bloody nose)to avoid getting shot. Zimmy fell backwards and hit his head on the sidewalk (scrapes on back of his head), and zimmy got a shot off as Martin came down on him.

Originally Posted by Moeghoul

I'm thinking Zimmy went for the gun when they had words, and Martin punched him (bloody nose)to avoid getting shot. Zimmy fell backwards and hit his head on the sidewalk (scrapes on back of his head), and zimmy got a shot off as Martin came down on him.

Sweet movie scene.... Does that star Dolph Lundgren?

Originally Posted by whatcomridaz

Sweet movie scene.... Does that star Dolph Lundgren?

Dolph = Zimmy? Maybe we can get his old flame Grace Jones as martin. I have to believe Zimmy had his hand on the gun before Martin made a move. If Martin got him down on the ground it would have been pretty hard to be fumbling for a weapon if someone was actually smashing your head on the pavement. Instinctively, you'd be using your hands and arms to protect yourself and try to arrest an attackers arms. it would explain the bloody nose, if it wasn't self inflicted, and any injury to the back of his head.

One thing I don't get about this whole Zimmerman/Martin thing? Why does the mass mindrape media completely ignore all the hate crime retribution assaults by blacks on whites since this whole thing got so hyped? I guess that must not sell as well as an Arayan racist neighborhood watcher gunning down a poor black 12 year old in cold blood.

It gets local media coverage and there's usually an arrest.

Originally Posted by doughboyshredder

Where do you get the twisted idea that gun owners view zimmerman as a hero? Your own convoluted excuse for a brain, I must assume.

Sent from my PantechP8000 using TGR Forums

Here you go Pillsbury Doughboy: next time you go target shooting you can buy a target with Travon wearing a hoody on it. The target also includes Skittles and a can of Iced Tea.

http://www.alternet.org/newsandviews...oting_targets/

What a bunch of shitbag racists.

Originally Posted by Harry

Here you go Pillsbury Doughboy: next time you go target shooting you can buy a target with Travon wearing a hoody on it. The target also includes Skittles and a can of Iced Tea.

http://www.alternet.org/newsandviews...oting_targets/

What a bunch of shitbag racists.

It is definately in poor taste but I can't even imagine where you get racist from that.

Originally Posted by Triage

Meh, not really and not necessarily. The speed would have to be more like 6+ mph to cover 40yrds in 14s or 7+ mph to cover 40yrds in 12s compared to the average human walking speed of around 3mph. It's also dark and Zimmerman is on the phone and it's another ten seconds after that when GZ says he ran a second time.

But that's a separate discussion. You're trying to make the defense case by essentially moving the goalpost because first it was said that GZ was looking for an address, then you stepped in and said, "George is clearly not running after him" when it's apparent that George leaves his truck to chase Martin. Then you said that George stopped pursuing Martin 12-14 seconds after the initial chase began but we know he's still looking and that he's still in the area for another 2-3 minutes rather than walking back to his truck. You also ignore Martin's girlfriend's account.

Point being, I'm not saying what did happen because I don't know, I'm primarily responding to the things we do know: 1) GZ was not looking for an address 2) GZ disregarded being told not to chase Martin and/or GZ does not return to his truck after being told he doesn't need to follow. 3) GZ vetos meeting by the mailboxes

Again there is no proof of a veto, that's your assumption of what happened.

What we've shown is that its more then likely GZ could have been moving at a rapid enough pace without truly panting to have line of sight down the alley way, so his he ran statement would have been valid.


In what world does doubling back to engage with a second party not count as looking for a confrontation. He could have gone almost anywhere after his fight or flight response engaged. instead he ran away and then came back.

I wouldn't be surprised if GZ had his hand on a gun by then. A dark alley way, a suspicious character that took off running and is suddenly bold enough to come back, and all the recent local robberies? You'd expect that if someone doubled back its because he had something prove.