Plugging holes with screws

[HHTELE]

The subject of how many, how close, and how to plug comes up often.

Lot's of options, inluding hardwood dowel, ski specific structural plugs, epoxy/fiber mixture, etc.

Anybody ever use ski screws? As in: Using whatever sealant/advesive, simply screw in screws till they bottom out, then shear them flush.

With an angle grinder, this would be fast and easy, and seems like it would be as strong as anything.

Looking at a possible 3rd mount with some Snoop Daddies with significant hole conflict issues. Pretty sure this is a foam core ski. Probaly could avoid overlap, but really tight proximity. I have, and have used, West Systems 2 part with cut up glass mat. In thinking about keeping the core strong relative to the forces of a pullout, it seems like the threads of a screw would hold things together really well.

Any thoughts? Anybody done it? Anybody think of a good reason not to do it?

[XXX-er]

the only screw I ever used to plug a hole was when a head got stripped

I would go forward or back 1cm to miss existing holes

[HHTELE]

Layed a template out and looked at various options. Axl holes, and some type of alpine binder are really creating some limitations, in this case. I am not obsessive about binding location, but this one is a bit tricky, as I end up between existing holes.

Also, just wondering in genral, as this seems cheap, easy, and strong.

[toast2266]

Even if you epoxy the screw in, it will still rust on the top. I would guess that, over time, the screw will start to rust and corrode down around the sides, potentially letting water into the core.

You could try avoiding the hole conflict by using a plate.

[DropCliffsNotBombs]

I still think that pound-in plugs are best in the long run. The rigid metal screw stud will eventually rust and loosen up over time.
Plugs are better since they are pounded in, don't rust, have a pressure fit, and will flex a bit with the ski.

[JayPowHound]

Never done it, but I'm not sure I buy the rust argument...

Do screws rust out when holding in a binding??

Maybe they do and I've just been lucky enough never to deal with it, but if they don't than I can't see why they would when sitting by themselves?

[XXX-er]

I don't know if they rust out completely to the point of letting go but yeah they can rust and i think if there is rust in the hole the core is more likely to go rotten

a riser plate might be the best way to go if you have conflicts

[grskier]

The time it will take for a screw to rust then subsequent water to rot a core is pretty significant compared to the life cycle of many many skis.....

[El Chupacabra]

Grinding the head of the screw flush with the topsheet is going to be harder than grinding a wood golf tee flush, and if you slip with the angle grinder, you'll make a mess of your topsheet.

My preferred method of filling old binding holes: glue + blunted golf tee; cut off with dremel, then grind flush with dremel, dab paint on end of tee to seal it.

[Ted Striker]

Do screws rust out when holding in a binding??

Correctly installed, no, but if you forget the glue/epoxy/what-have-you then yeah, it's possible. When I worked in a shop we'd see rusty screws occasionally.

@ hhtele, I don't think there is any point to plugging the holes with anything harder than the ski itself, so I would use wood dowels/plugs with epoxy.

[stuckathuntermtn]

Aside from the fact that it's a foam core ski, a different issue entirely is making the old holes flat. Typically, you chisel off the top of whatever you have plugged the holes with. This would be hard with a screw. I mean, you could counter sink it, and all that, but you are just taking away more ski material, and the topsheat is pretty much what holds a ski like that together.

[lowsparkco]

I epoxy in golf tees as well. I just break them off in the hole and rip it to flush with a shaper although I have cut them with a dremel too. The benefit being you can drill quite close to them. Others have even told me they trust them to hold even overlapping. A screw you can't really drill again, but other than that I can't see any issue. Rust... eventually.

[SunshineTom]

+3 on golf tees. simple. never a problem.

[Jethro]

I don't think you gain any real strength from a plug. You could also just fill the hole with something like Marine goop if you don't want to mix epoxy. Plugs are probably faster and easier if you have them on hand though.

[snoboy]

I did this exact thing with a set of Bros that had a tight conflict between old screw holes and where I wanted to put inserts for new bindings.

I used the same 72hr epoxy I use for inserts, and screwed the binding screws into the old holes. When it was set, I just bucked them off with an angle grinder. Easy.

I'll let you know how it works out in 5 years or so... I don't anticipate any problems.

[skimaxpower]

I still think that pound-in plugs are best in the long run. The rigid metal screw stud will eventually rust and loosen up over time.
Plugs are better since they are pounded in, don't rust, have a pressure fit, and will flex a bit with the ski.

Agreed.

On a side note, the plastic hole plugs come in multiple colors. If it's important to you, it makes any visible hole plugs less ugly. (If you own an angle grinder, I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that you don't care.)

[stuckathuntermtn]

What is with you people and gold tees? That's gotta be the most expensive way to plug a hole.

[ill-advised strategy]

everything already well-said plus grinding the screw will make the screw very hot, thus burning/melting core material.

just plug your holes with hole plugs, it's not rocket surgery.

[bern43]

I usually just use the plastic plugs. If was going to drill with part of the hole in play, I'd probably use one of the wood ones with some epoxy. I've never had one of those plastic plugs fail.

[dcpnz]

Beginning of this season - golf tees set in marine epoxy. Redrilled for dynafit heel right into them and still going strong after a fair bit of use/abuse.

If theres any future overlap I suspect a plastic plug or a screw would not be ideal. If its just adjacent then any watertight plug probably much the same.

[axebiker]

What's so hard about using plugs? Contact SVST, buy a bag for $15-20, and have enough to fill holes for the next 2-3 lifetimes. It doesn't have to be so complicated.

[HHTELE]

Plugs are dead easy to install, and my local shop usually just gives them to me. I have a work bench, hammer, and glue, so nothing could be simpler.

My issue is that given the hole proximity, I am exploring ways to maximize pullout strength, and those little plastic plugs are great for sealing out water, but not real strong.

I also have West Systems 2 part, and fiberglass matt I can cut up. My thinking regarding the screws was that epoxied screw threads do a good job resisting upward pull. It seems that the primary issue with drilling close to a plugged hole is that pulling up on an area weakened by a hole will increase the likelyhood of a pullout.

I appreciate all the input. This season has had me drilling and plugging a lot of skis- went NTN, developed a foot problem, and could only ski in an AT boot. Or tele boot in an AT binding. This has resulted in a bit of gear juggling. And, has left those Snoops unused. I really like those skis, and if I completely drop all my 75 mm stuff, I would lve to set up the Snoops for Dynafit. I have S3s with Dynadukes, inserts in some Xplorers for Marker. Inserts in the Snoops would give me a pretty versatile 3 ski quiver- I live in Maine.

[Ted Striker]

My issue is that given the hole proximity, I am exploring ways to maximize pullout strength, and those little plastic plugs are great for sealing out water, but not real strong.

I also have West Systems 2 part, and fiberglass matt I can cut up. My thinking regarding the screws was that epoxied screw threads do a good job resisting upward pull. It seems that the primary issue with drilling close to a plugged hole is that pulling up on an area weakened by a hole will increase the likelyhood of a pullout.

The threads do a good job of resisting pullout for the screw itself, but actually weaken the surrounding core because the pilot hole is undersized. The screw not only cuts the space for the threads, but slightly expands the hole as well - which is good for resisting backing out and for keeping water out, but weakens the core material adjacent to the screw. That's why the rule of thumb is 1 cm. It doesn't really matter what you plug the unused holes with because the damage is already done.

You're right that the plastic plugs are for sealing holes only, but an epoxyed wood dowel is strong enough that you could put a screw right into it (as long as it's not all of the screws).

[marshalolson]

you can drill and tap JB weld also.

[Dude Bro]

I had two conflicting holes on my M1s. Filled all the open holes with west systems G/flex and drilled the new holes. the drill didn't even wonder. still holding strong