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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
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    home renovation options (roofing/flooring)

    <sweet blog>
    Moved up here and found a house in Seattle, and doing almost everything all over. new roof, entire kitchen, bathrooms, finish basement, and windows.

    In looking at what to do, I've been working with commonlaw's GC firm and another GC to get the estimates, and of course bids.
    Both contractors' estimates have come out to be roughly the same.

    I work at least 50 hours a week, usually 60-70 and ski on week nights plus weekends.
    Given the amount of time I work, I'd like whatever I put into the house to not have issues.
    If it is annual or every couple years of regular maintenance, I'm fine.
    </sweet blog>

    (So far, CL's firm's been extremely professional and efficient. they are a bunch of vets too (+1 point).
    I'd definitely recommend giving them a call. PM him for more details.)

    Looking for thoughts and experiences on the following topics:
    1. Metal vs. asphalt roofing.
    It rains here (shock) and the house is ~0.5mi on a hill looking at sea (possible salt sprays?).
    Don't want leaks and dont have AC. Leaving windows open all summer, and the rest of the year basically the heater is on in some form or another.
    Lots of houses here seem to have moss.

    2. cork vs. tile flooring for the kitchen
    Does your cat enjoy tearing thousands of dollars off your cork floor?
    (no cat yet, but want)
    water on cork? soy sauce on cork floor?
    want waterproof kitchen floor, but also want warm feet.
    other options? (no wood)

    3. basement flooring choices suggestions
    basement is very dry right now. again, warm feet...
    (snow camping cold feet OK, home floor not...i'm a wuss sometimes)

    did search the forums which didnt show much. google only showed marketing articles on both sides.
    Fine Homebuilding isn't giving enough details. i'm ok with reading lots of shit.

    thanks in advance. no nekkid pic of girl sorry (though she joked that she'd entertain the idea of kneeling kitchen bjs if going w/ cork. i went to the gear closet and pulled out the tele kneepads which was shut down.) happy to buy a round if we ever have a pnw mini or if we meet elsewhere.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
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    Cork flooring is awesome. I doubt cats will do too much damage, but others can chime in here. You can do cork in the basement, too. Cork handles water like a champ (duh).

    As far as roofs go, clearly metal will outlast asphalt, but it's also a lot more expensive. There are many options for metal, everything from mild steel (e.g. will rust a certain amount, then stop) to painted metal.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
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    n to the h
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    have you considered tile flooring with radiant heat underneath? We had that put in our bathroom, and it was really nice. Not terribly expensive.

    I would be concerned with cats and cork flooring. Have no direct experience, but our cats like to tear into boxes and other stuff. Maybe if they have something better they would leave the floor alone...

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2009
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    inpdx
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    I've had clients with dogs that tore up their cork floors, just from running through the area (large active dogs)

    I wouldn't expect cats to tear them up at all

    YMMV

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
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    The Cone of Uncertainty
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    Metal roofs (I like the look of GalvAlum stnding-seam roofs myself) aren't too bad as long as there's not a lot of corners and valleys. It's a great material and will last a very long time, probably longer than you will.

    Cork flooring is nice, and I can't imagine that cats would hurt it. The tile/radiant idea is a good one too. You can put hardwood in a basement too. Bamboo is a nice flooring material as well.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
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    359
    i had thought about tile with electric radiant (the kitchen and bath are too small to justify fluid). was a bit concerned about having to run the electric heating all day long to prevent warping. do folks really keep it on constantly?

    as to the roof, so long as it lasts 20+ years without leak, i'm ok. it's already a 60 year-old home. i suspect some structure will have to change if i ever stay here that long.

    what about gas furnace and tankless water heater brands? folks seem to think that American Standard is better. i'm looking at wanting variable fan and variable power.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Sheridan, Wy
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    40
    You might consider getting a stamped concrete floor (a good concrete finisher will be able to make your floor look like anything you want from tile to hardwood and beyond) with electric radiant heat.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Suckramento
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    cork is ok w/ water, but is porous and can stain. careful w/ bamboo. i have heard that it can react (warping, color change) to different climates. not sure how it does in seattle, ask around.
    Quando paramucho mi amore de felice carathon.
    Mundo paparazzi mi amore cicce verdi parasol.
    Questo abrigado tantamucho que canite carousel.


  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Sea-Town
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    303
    I can address #1 since that's the business I'm in (on the metal side). It really depends on a couple key questions. How long do you plan on staying in the house? Are you tight on budget or would you really like to put the extra money into another area on the house. And thirdly, to a lesser extent, asthetics. Since you are already considering it I'll assume you like the look of metal.

    If you are only going to be there for 5 years +/- and have a lot of other wants/needs on the remodel I'd probably go with a good comp. You won't get all your money back out of a metal roof on resell and you can easily get a a good comp roof to last 10 to 15 years at a fraction of the price of metal. On my first hosue in west Seattle I put comp on but that was knowing that I would sell in a couple years. I do have metal on my current house but I plan on being there for 20+ years.

    My BIGGEST piece of advice if you decide on metal is to really research your installer. Go look at a few of his jobs paying special attention to the details and flashing. The installation is going to make or break asthetics and performace. Do not use a residential roofer who's "done a few metal jobs before".

    Shoot me a PM if you want to explore the metal option a bit more. I can certainly save you some money but not enough to make it equal to asphalt comp.

    Edit: I am not a contractor, just a panel manufacturer and material supplier.
    Last edited by Zesty Not Spicy; 03-12-2012 at 11:46 AM.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2011
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    Truckee & Nor Cal
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    Roofs: Metal roofs are awesome but *really* expensive. More than twice as much but they last forever. On the other hand, you can still get 40 year comp roofs for cheap in comparison.

    Kitchen floor: Having our kitchen redone next week so I just went through this. Going with stone/tile for long-term durability. It also looks much nicer IMO.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Seattle
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    1,140
    commonlaw may have already spoke with you about this, but keep in mind that putting radiant heating (1.5" concrete) plus tile on your kitchen floor might overload the existing floor joists. They do make radiant that is installed in a plywood system that doesn't need the concrete, but it's something to consider before adding 20psf to your existing floor. Lots of older houses in Seattle have 2x8 spanning a long ways.

    PM if you need structural advice, or I'll try to check this thread.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
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    northern BC
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    this place has rough slate tile in the bathroom /entrance way/kitchen & cheaper laminate flooring thruout the rest observations...

    having always lived in houses with carpet I am surprised at how much dirt/dust/spills/crap ends up on solid flooring that I must have been living with in carpeted homes but never noticed ... never again will I have a house with carpet

    Funnily enough back in the day (the 60's) my mom thot w2w carpet was the best thing since sliced bread but all we could afford was the "shitty" wood flooring

    Rough slate always looks just slightly cleaner than dirt even when its clean so it doesn't matter what I do to it which includes drying beer coolers,ski or paddle gear or bottling wine, if I drop a glass on rough slate it will break but if the floor got marked I can't tell

    there is nothing cheaper than asphalt roofing and there is nothing wrong with it

    the thing to look at IMO is whether the materials/upgrades you are choosing are in step/character with the area/$ of the house & other houses in your area, if you go crazy on upgrades & materials and then move out you may never get the $ back that you spent

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
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    thanks. given the response above, i think i will give up on cork floor, as staining is a major concern.

    never thought of concrete as an option. and i realized that i'd probably buy some gel pads to stand on in the kitchen anyway, so electric radiant is not necessary.

    now that the weight problem has been brought up, just wondering if there is a difference in weight between concrete and tile. (no radiant in either)

    at work, they have concrete floors, and seems to have long cracks on the finish. is this common? will this be fixable easily? will tearing the concrete floor out be difficult?

  14. #14
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    Nov 2005
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    If you go to johnbridge.com, there is a calculator where you input your floor joist size, spacing, and subfloor. It will then tell you if your floor can support tile or stone.

    Properly installed cork flooring will not stain, because it has a poly coating on it.

    The concrete idea is dumb. Concrete as a retrofit is not really a legitimate option, for lots of reasons.

    I recently installed tile in my kitchen and I hate it. It's cold and hard, and shit breaks when it falls. My next kitchen will floor will definitely be wood or cork. What do you have against wood, anyways?

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by RootSkier View Post

    I recently installed tile in my kitchen and I hate it. It's cold and hard, and shit breaks when it falls. My next kitchen will floor will definitely be wood or cork. What do you have against wood, anyways?
    I like real wood but not in the kitchen or bathroom because kitchens & bathrooms are where the water is so if the dishwasher leaks or the tub overflows that floor is fcuked ...big hassle even with insurance

    if the cold is an issue insatl radiant heat or wear something on yer feet ...birkenstocks are like cheap

    if a cup breaks buy another cup

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Sheridan, Wy
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    Concrete is not a dumb idea as you are not pouring a huge slab, the processes are similar but the mud designs are different for an indoor floor, and are quite applicable in this setting. As for the cracking if you go with a concrete contractor who knows what they are doing they will be able to control the cracking in a manner that you wont even notice them. Check out brickform.com and butterfieldcolor.com for some ideas as to whats possible.

  17. #17
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    On Vacation for the Duration
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    Whatever you decide, realize that in 10 years it will be "dated".
    A few people feel the rain. Most people just get wet.

  18. #18
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    How thick is the concrete? That's what I thought. It's not really a viable option for most remodels over existing wood subfloors not designed for concrete.

    Also, I disagree about the dated. Wood and cork never go out of style. XXX_er, I agree about bathrooms, but how often do dishwashers overflow? A wood floor can actually take quite a bit of water before any real damage occurs.

  19. #19
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    Wood and cork never go out of style. Where do people get such silly ideas ? Good design is never dated. There are so many great finishes out there now tht make wood flooring bulletproof. I've designed several bathrooms with wood floors that are still performing 10 years later. Oil and solid clear coat finishes.

    Concrete and tile over existing structure needs a thorough analysis by a GOOD residential expert, structural engineer. Not just the guy you blindly fingered in the yellow pages.

    Stone, conc. And cer. tile in kitchens may get old fast. Just ask Rootskier. It's hard, it's cold and it's unforgiving. Shit breaks when it falls on it and it's loud. Kitchens are nothing but hard impervious surfaces. I think something that feels soft under foot makes for a more forgiving work environment, and a kitchen is a space you spend a lot of time.
    "You damn colonials and your herds of tax write off dressage ponies". PNWBrit

  20. #20
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    oregon
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    Stamped concrete is for patios, not kitchens. WTF.

    Cork is awesome. Wood is good as well.

    I put tile in a bathroom in my last house. Only worth it IMO if you put in radiant.
    "These are crazy times Mr Hatter, crazy times. Crazy like Buddha! Muwahaha!"

  21. #21
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    Jan 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by RootSkier View Post
    How thick is the concrete? That's what I thought. It's not really a viable option for most remodels over existing wood subfloors not designed for concrete.
    1 1/2" to 2" is all thats needed, its not a highway after all.

  22. #22
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    Jan 2012
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    [QUOTE=char;3581126]Stamped concrete is for patios, not kitchens. WTF. QUOTE]

    Fortunatly its not the 1970's anymore and stamped/stained concrete has come a long way, it is now for everything you could possibly imagine.

  23. #23
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    [QUOTE=dcphinney;3581134]
    Quote Originally Posted by char View Post
    Stamped concrete is for patios, not kitchens. WTF. QUOTE]

    Fortunatly its not the 1970's anymore and stamped/stained concrete has come a long way, it is now for everything you could possibly imagine.
    Yep seen some stamped bluestone pattern conc. used in some basement applications that worked very well, but the installer was a real craftsman. He actually grouted the joint lines, looked like real friggin bluestone.

    Stained conc. Makes for a more interesting finish I think though.
    "You damn colonials and your herds of tax write off dressage ponies". PNWBrit

  24. #24
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    Jan 2012
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    [QUOTE=OSECS;3581139]
    Quote Originally Posted by dcphinney View Post

    Yep seen some stamped bluestone pattern conc. used in some basement applications that worked very well, but the installer was a real craftsman. He actually grouted the joint lines, looked like real friggin bluestone.

    Stained conc. Makes for a more interesting finish I think though.
    Yeah its pretty awesome what good finishers can do with concrete these days. I've seen counter tops that looks like a slab of rock with fossils in it, stained basement floors that looked like solid peice of marble,I did a driveway that looked like it was all laid brick, and I will soon be doing a stamp and stain tile pattern for the kitchen in my parents home.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by dcphinney View Post
    1 1/2" to 2" is all thats needed, its not a highway after all.
    Exactly. You absolutely 100% for sure cannot put 1.5" of concrete over a wood framed subfloor that was not designed for it. GTFO. Or, at minimum, post pictures in the Shit I Built... thread.

    Even assuming you could, it would fuck with every transition and doorway it came into contact with.

    To be clear, I like concrete as both a finish and a design element, but this is a wildly inappropriate use for it.

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