Thread: New Crank Bros post. Hmm. i dunno...

Originally Posted by marshalolson

but dude, those thomson design files where written, what almost 20 years ago? its $5 worth of aluminum, and a design that has not changed... ever. and its still $100.

More like $15 for a 18" long piece of 1-1/2" square 6061 billet, plus the top hardware pieces $10?, not to mention paying the skilled US worker to machine it into a beautiful seatpost, anodizing, laser etching, packaging, shipping, retail markup.

Damn good deal if you ask me

And $300 for a dropper is a damn good deal too

Originally Posted by LeeLau

Who will drink the koolaid and guinea pig this fine new CB product with cold hard cash. Freebies don't count - myself included

according to the all mighty lee lau, my opionon doesnt count, so nevermind....

Originally Posted by DirkaDirkaJack

according to the all mighty lee lau, my opionon doesnt count, so nevermind....

I didn't say that you sensitive svenska (I know I don't spell it correctly). If you will lay cold hard cash out for it then your opinion counts more than gear whores like myself who get bagloads of this shit (and I mean shit when I think of Crank Bros) to review.

Originally Posted by marshalolson

i hear you. $100 vs. $300. i totally get it.

but dude, those thomson design files where written, what almost 20 years ago? its $5 worth of aluminum, and a design that has not changed... ever. and its still $100. look at the design, R&D, tooling, materials, small parts, increased warranty, customer service etc required on a dropper post. 3x compared to something as simple as straight aluminum post is a great price. i mean an alloy rigid fork is $79.99. a lyrik is $900. a lyrik has baically the same moving parts and number of seals and such as a reverb. just saying.

Very true. The R&D alone that goes into one must not be easy or cheap. I'll end up getting one eventually, I'll rationalize the price. I said the same thing about full suspension bikes a few years ago. Here I am on a fancy, expensive 6 inch trail bike.

Marshal, my point was not so much that $300 is out of line, but rather that, given CB's poor reputation due to the issues with the Joplin, they might have been advised to initially make the price point at or lower than the less expensive options like the Blacklight and the Giant Contact and try to gain back some market share. Were I shopping (and I'm not, being satisfied with my AMP and GDropper), given that price, I'd stay away until the new post is proved to be sufficiently robust and reliable. Seriously.

Originally Posted by marshalolson

seriously? how much, exactly, do you think these things cost?

specialized command blacklite: $275
rockshox reverb: $375
kind shox LEV: $395
kind shox i950: $365
gravity dropper turbo: $300

$300 MSRP is right where that thing should be.

the joplin totally sucked ass. it was designed by maverick, and licensed by crank bros. they did not engineer it. small distinction, but a valid one, IMO.

Cool design, I'd rock one but the deal breaker for me is the height of the mechanism that sits above the collar. My HD has a tall seat tube and I like to slam my Reverb all the way to the bottom occasionally. If I had a frame with a lower seattube, I'd totally guinea-pig that thing.

Originally Posted by Krash

More like $15 for a 18" long piece of 1-1/2" square 6061 billet, plus the top hardware pieces $10?, not to mention paying the skilled US worker to machine it into a beautiful seatpost, anodizing, laser etching, packaging, shipping, retail markup.

Damn good deal if you ask me

ha, sorry, $15 not $5 worth of alu.

but that is my point. thomson's are worth every nickel, and are priced exactly where they should be priced.

the point was ~$15 in raw materials = $100 retail. does anyone really think that the raw materials alone in a dropper post are only $45?

there is a ton more stuff going on in a dropper, they should be a ton more expensive.

Any opinions on fixed vs variable settings for seat posts? I have a 2009 Spec Command post with low,med and high settings, and it has worked well for me. It lost air pressure when new but Specialized fixed it for free. Are infinite adjustment lengths really a plus over what I have, or is such a post too complex?

I like the variable settings on the reverb. other than the reliability issues, it works well from a performance perspective.

mechanical posts can be kinda clunky but this CB post seems to mimic the smooth pistonic action (yeah baby) of the hydraulics. i'm not going to be the guinea pig, but i'll be watching the reports from the guinea pigs with interest.

the market has spoken & is willing to shell out 300+ for a decent post. posts have much of the same technology as forks, and the market appears fine with MSRPs of 900 to 2 grand for higher end forks. the CB post appears reasonably priced for the market...arguably on the cheap side, taking into account the ano bling.

I'll let everyone else test it out. CB has a pretty piss poor reputation when it come to quality. If the majority are still working by August, I'll consider it. Hell, I'd pay $400 for a Reverb that worked for 2 years straight.

What about a Thomson dropper post then? Seems to be in the works...

http://bikethomson.com/droppost/

That's gonna be the one to watch. Can't wait to see pics.

Originally Posted by marshalolson

does anyone really think that the raw materials alone in a dropper post are only $45?

yes.....

How much do you think the machines (and people) cost to turn those materials into a dropper post?

I just saw this over on Pinkbike and I immediately wanted one. On the flipside, I was also enamored by the Joplin. Even still, from what the video shows and the description shows, plus Marshal's insight on what the Joplin really was, I have a bit more confidence in this. Me thinks I'll be ordering one soon.

Originally Posted by rideit

How much do you think the machines (and people) cost to turn those materials into a dropper post?

made in China like most of the other stuff, right? so not so much $ for the people part....

IMO pretty much all mountain bike equipment is over priced. I still pay for it and enjoy most of what I buy but the fact that you can get a dirt bike for the same price as a high end mountain bike is a hard concept for me to wrap my brain around. But thats just my .02

General guideline are that if your bill of materials is more than 15% of your retail price, you're losing $. Especially on a product with a lot of labor involved, say, like a dropper seatpost.

economy of scale and the weight/price/durability connundrum.
yes, it really is that simple.
Plus life cycle and number of units produced in one design to manufacture run in moto vs. Mt. bike (maturity of tecnology).
Oh, and the relative size of moto manufacturers, and their other industrial conglomerates that give them tremendous buying power and other logistical advantages, from marketing to packaging.

My favorite quote from Keith Bontrager, "Light, strong, cheap; pick any two"

Originally Posted by Big E

What about a Thomson dropper post then? Seems to be in the works...

http://bikethomson.com/droppost/

Nice! Just a couple of weeks ago I was thinking, "I wonder why Thomson hasn't jumped in this market yet?" I'll pay very good money for one of those. Hell, their seat clamp alone is worth its weight in gold. Everything else I've seen fucking sucks and is prone to bending/breakage.

Originally Posted by rideit

economy of scale and the weight/price/durability connundrum.
yes, it really is that simple.
Plus life cycle and number of units produced in one design to manufacture run in moto vs. Mt. bike (maturity of tecnology).
Oh, and the relative size of moto manufacturers, and their other industrial conglomerates that give them tremendous buying power and other logistical advantages, from marketing to packaging.

Not to mention the R&D that's gone into keeping the rear end from being a pogo-sticking POS when you pedal.

Originally Posted by marshalolson

ha, sorry, $15 not $5 worth of alu.

but that is my point. thomson's are worth every nickel, and are priced exactly where they should be priced.

the point was ~$15 in raw materials = $100 retail. does anyone really think that the raw materials alone in a dropper post are only $45?

there is a ton more stuff going on in a dropper, they should be a ton more expensive.

A while back I had a (drunken) discussion with a SRAM engineer about the cost of producing derailleurs. He'd been working on a low end electronic shifting system, but said that it wasn't viable to bring to market because the raw materials costs something like $4, which ended up working out to a retail price well into the $100's. I think he said an XO derailleur was about $2 worth of materials.

I believe it to be a significant advancement in drop style posts. While I can't take credit for anything more than helping bring it to the retail stores' shelves, I've been beating up on mine for a few months and its held up with no issue. When set-up properly, I haven't seen a production model have an issue yet (including final field testing and lab testing). The goal is that its more durable, easier to maintain and has some style points. But more than anything, that it makes your ride more enjoyable.

Feel free to PM me if you have any questions. I don't check here often any more but I'll keep my eye out towards my inbox.