Thread: JONG Q& hopefully A

I realize there are probably already threads about most of this stuff but at this point i'm just over sitting at the computer so I figured id see if I could get some more direct answers.


1: For no real reason I feel the DIN setting on my binding might be wrong for me. Aside from pre-release issues what other cues could I look for to know that the DIN is too low (or cues for them being to high too I suppose)?

2: I stumbled upon something talking about lowering the DIN in the summer..I assume to prolong the life of the binding? I like the sounds of this...is it true? or necessary?

3: Good wax? not trying to be the fastest guy on the hill or anything more just trying to keep my skis in good shape for as long as I can (unfortunately trying to put my money towards paying for school rather than new skis every other season).


Thanks, much appreciated

Originally Posted by mightyduck

I realize there are probably already threads about most of this stuff but at this point i'm just over sitting at the computer so I figured id see if I could get some more direct answers.


1: For no real reason I feel the DIN setting on my binding might be wrong for me. Aside from pre-release issues what other cues could I look for to know that the DIN is too low (or cues for them being to high too I suppose)?

2: I stumbled upon something talking about lowering the DIN in the summer..I assume to prolong the life of the binding? I like the sounds of this...is it true? or necessary?

3: Good wax? not trying to be the fastest guy on the hill or anything more just trying to keep my skis in good shape for as long as I can (unfortunately trying to put my money towards paying for school rather than new skis every other season).


Thanks, much appreciated

Well, simple questions, but still things that is good to know if you are a beginner, so here you go:

1.
To low DIN=prerelease problems, especially at high speed and in rough conditions.
To high DIN=risk of injury if you fall, especially at low speed.
Good DIN=keeps you in most of the time, but when things really fuck up, they release just before you blow your knee.

If you are a beginner a good value to start with is (your weight in kg)/10, atleast if you are a freeskiing beginner. If you are a total ski beginner start instead with ((your weight in kg)/10)-2.
As you progress you will have to slowly step up your DIN as you start to put more power into your skis. You will notice it when you start to prerelease. Very few skiers need to go higher than ((weight in kg)/10)+3.
Note: Different bindings might need adjustments outside of the norm. I use +1 on Tyrolias and Solly Z:s and +2 on older Marker Biometrics (if I occationally have to use them on demo days or on friends skis. That doesnt happen that often anymore, luckily).

2.
There's often discussion about this, and probably it´s also somewhat theoretically true, but nobody I know really cares. The bindings works for decades anyway. I have 20 year old bindings that still feels like new in the springs. Maybe they aren´t if I would really measure them with precision, but still, they work perfect. Do it if you feel good about it, or else do like 99,9% of the skiers and just put the skis away. Throw on a bit of wax if you feel like before the summer, but honestly that doesnt matter that much either.

3.
Buy a bulk piece of medium temperature wax from a workshop. For the rental skis and for tuning/service, they normally use wax that comes in big pieces. That wax is good enough for most of us and cost a lot less than the small packages with wax that you find in the normal shelves. One kg of wax lasts forever if you are a normal skier. If you are not a racer, the difference between this wax and a high quality flourinated performance wax is of zero importance. I personally like SkiGo Service Pack the best, but there are a lot of similar options.
http://www.xc-elitesports.com/produc...b1cee4dc32a53f

Your din settings go by a number of variables- not just weight as stated by first reply. Weight of the skier, boot sole length, skier level of experience (Type I is a beginner, Type 3 is advanced or expert). Shops and even searching on the internet will have a chart that can be used for a the recommended setting. Of course the shop will also do a safety test on the release with your boots and not just turn the dial to the number.

Also other variables enter into the issue of bindings not working the way they are designed to save your knees and bones in a fall. This includes forward pressure setting being wrong. Boots soles worn down, and good AFD pads (anti friction device).

The wax question can be answered by just stating for general skiing a universal all temperature hydrocarbon wax is good enough most of the time. Only exceptions would be very extreme temperatures- really warm or really cold days you may notice a bit of sticking or slower glide with a universal all temperature wax. But waxing your skis also protect them in addition to adding to the glide. Any inexpensive package of wax you find marked as universal can be a good starting point (bulk or whatever- just figure the best price per gram or ounce) under $10 most likely. And you can make it last by learning how to either crayon the wax or use a iron and drip just enough to cover and not waste the wax each time. Too little wax and too hot of an iron and you risk damaging the ski base. Rubbing the wax on and not dripping it everywhere but on the ski means a bar will last longer for you, no matter how much you pay for the wax.

Originally Posted by MnO_____

If you are a beginner a good value to start with is (your weight in kg)/10, atleast if you are a freeskiing beginner. If you are a total ski beginner start instead with ((your weight in kg)/10)-2.
As you progress you will have to slowly step up your DIN as you start to put more power into your skis. You will notice it when you start to prerelease. Very few skiers need to go higher than ((weight in kg)/10)+3.
Note: Different bindings might need adjustments outside of the norm. I use +1 on Tyrolias and Solly Z:s and +2 on older Marker Biometrics (if I occationally have to use them on demo days or on friends skis. That doesnt happen that often anymore, luckily).

This is very wrong advice.

The DIN setting on your binding is determined by your height, weight, boot sole length(BSL), ability, and your age.
Every manufacturer puts out a spreadsheet to follow to calculate the proper setting for their binding.

Originally Posted by mightyduck

1: For no real reason I feel the DIN setting on my binding might be wrong for me. Aside from pre-release issues what other cues could I look for to know that the DIN is too low (or cues for them being to high too I suppose)?

You need the correct forward pressure too. There's a spring in the heel to hold it against the boot (which is different than the release spring) and every binding has it's own way to set it up. Too loose and you'll pop out all the time.

Originally Posted by Caucasian Asian

This is very wrong advice.

The DIN setting on your binding is determined by your height, weight, boot sole length(BSL), ability, and your age.
Every manufacturer puts out a spreadsheet to follow to calculate the proper setting for their binding.

well, it does work out pretty close to the chart - so it's not that bad...

Originally Posted by Caucasian Asian

Every manufacturer puts out a spreadsheet to follow to calculate the proper setting for their binding.

Here's Salomon's, for example: http://www.salomoncertification.com/...rt_2011-12.pdf

This would be for a type I (beginning) skier, typically for a type II skier you would move down one letter ("skier code") in the chart, type III skier move down two letters, over 50 years of age move up one letter. Keep in mind that these are industry guidelines with liability in mind; following them does not guarantee that the DIN setting on your bindings is right for you.

MnO____'s method works out pretty damn close for me as well, and I wouldn't be surprised if this was how the DIN numbers were derived, but in the States almost no one knows their weight in kg. anyway . . .

PS I've never bothered to lower the spring tension of my bindings in summer (and release seems to stay constant for years), but I do flip the heels to "closed" position.

make sure the pre-load/ toe piece height/wing agj (if applicable) is correct then make a note of the setting & try 1 more din

To find my optimum DIN I used to start the season with a lower than normal setting to see if the bindings release and then turn them up till they quit falling off but now i just go to what works ...I am not even sure what is recommended for my weight & ability

edit:I would fall out if I used that salomon chart ... I would need to add 1 in the toe & 2 in the heel

if you want to back off the spring tension its not a bad thing , write the DIN setting on the ski with a sharpie for the next season

Originally Posted by XXX-er

I would fall out if I used that salomon chart ... I would need to add 1 in the toe & 2 in the heel

Manufacturers charts are quite conservative, but that's likely how mightducks' bindings will be set if they were adjusted at a shop. The process of determining if the DIN is too low is one of trial-and-error (sometimes painful), normally involving increasing the DIN in increments of .5 when you have what you consider an unwarranted release.

I am a type 3 skier (with racing) and the charts state that I should be at 6 to 7 (depending binding manufacturer). If I use the formula above (77.5 KG)/10 then I would not trust the comment that this works for a beginner skier.... almost an 8 DIN instead of a 5 that a type 1 skier should be starting at.

ejection is overated - stick the line nubs!

Originally Posted by Caucasian Asian

This is very wrong advice.

The DIN setting on your binding is determined by your height, weight, boot sole length(BSL), ability, and your age.
Every manufacturer puts out a spreadsheet to follow to calculate the proper setting for their binding.

Ah, its not that wrong. It works basically every time for someone that is even close to being normally built. I´ve never seen any charts being used around here, by any skiers or by any shops since I started to ski 20 years ago. The main reason you have that chart over there in the US is not primarly to get the right DIN out, I would say. Its probably mostly because of your tradition to sue the shit out of everybody, if you just have a slight possibility to get some cash. If the shop can say "we followed this chart when we put the DIN", it is just a way to be sure that they can´t be blamed of having done something wrong. In the end you will end up very close to a DIN that you will get from that simple formula above anyway.

One thing to consider however is that the stated simplified formula above is based on a normally fit person. In Europe the majority of the people still is pretty fit. In USA, the situation is different and the number of people that is fat or slightly overweight, is a lot higher than anywhere in the world. With a bit of extra pounds of fat on the body, you probably need to go down a bit. I am not sure how to do there, but then probably a chart would be good. Do you have body fat percent on that chart?

Originally Posted by RShea

I am a type 3 skier (with racing) and the charts state that I should be at 6 to 7 (depending binding manufacturer). If I use the formula above (77.5 KG)/10 then I would not trust the comment that this works for a beginner skier.... almost an 8 DIN instead of a 5 that a type 1 skier should be starting at.

Well, if you read again, I say that if you are a total beginner on skis, you should start with ((77,5kg)/10)-2, giving you a DIN of 5,75. That is not that far from 5 and I would say that you have to be really old if you are going to get injured from a DIN of 5,5 if you weigh 77kgs. With "Freeride beginner", I dont mean total beginner, but skiers that start to use wider skis and start to go into the bc.

Wow, some complicated answers to some simple questions.

1. If a shop set them, and you were truthful about your weight and ability, and you aren't pre-releasing, they're fine. If you're pre-releasing, go up by one - or better yet, learn to ski with more finesse.

2. I do it, but it isn't necessary.

3. Cheapest wax you can find. You're not racing.

Originally Posted by pisteoff

Wow, some complicated answers to some simple questions.

1. If a shop set them, and you were truthful about your weight and ability, and you aren't pre-releasing, they're fine. If you're pre-releasing, go up by one - or better yet, learn to ski with more finesse.

2. I do it, but it isn't necessary.

3. Cheapest wax you can find. You're not racing.

+1 Quoted for truth

Good info, thanks guys!