Thread: Need 2nd pair of powder skis

Disclaimer: I did use the search tool and did read tons of reviews and threads on this forum and elsewhere but the more I read the harder it is to decide what I want/need/should get for my second pair of powder skis.

About me: 6'5", 185lb, mid 30s, been skiing for 30+ years but nothing too crazy, maybe level 7/10. Ski 15-20 days per year mostly Mammoth Mt, sometimes Tahoe and planning some Utah trips since my son is 5 and can handle most of the mountain too. (Still too light for deeper snow)

I do have four pair of skis that can handle 90% of the Mammoth Mt conditions where I ski most and therefore I'm looking for some dedicated deep powder skis that would compliment what I already have.

1. Dynastar carving skis
2. Volkl Kendo
3. Atomic Snoop
4. Line Mothership 195cm (142/111/131)

The Motherships can handle pow but are heavy and do require some speed. They are awesome for crud, chop and can destroy pretty much everything if you have enough speed ... typical charging skis.

What I'm looking for: Powder skis that are lighter, quicker and can handle deeper snow better than Motherships on powder days. Something that is easier to maneuver at slower speeds, does well in trees and tighter space. At the same time I do prefer stiffer skis. Pretty much dedicated skis for powder because when the powder turns into chop I can always switch to Motherships and shred everything. No, I dont need one pair that can do everything ... just one pair that would fit my size and those 10% I dont have covered.

What I'm considering:

DPS Wailer 112 - 190cm ... light but is it big/wide enough for deep pow?
DPS Lotus 120 - 190 or 200cm ... perhaps too similar to Motherships?
ON3P Billy Goats - 191cm ... similar to DPS Wailer 112 but heavier? Good for deep deep deep pow?
Armada AK JJ - 195cm ... Is it more suited to Jib or Switch which I dont do?
Rossi Super 7 - 195cm ... Maybe I should consider the 2013 Squad 7 instead?

What do you think about the above? What else is out there that I should consider?

Your help is much appreciated!

J.

It seems like you're missing the the dedicated powder skis from each of the companies.

DPS 192 (or 202!) Lotus 138
ON3P 196 Pillowfight
Armada Bubba or ARG

Also consider 196 Praxis Protest or Praxis Powder boards.

If you're good with the Moships at 195, I'd personally go 202 Lotus 138. Got them up at Stevens Pass a couple times this season, and they kill it so hard! So confidence inspiring at all speeds. Even in tight trees, I couldn't believe a 202 cm ski could be so nimble. (I'm 5'11", 165# for reference.) Know that you'll probably need to switch it up in the afternoon on all but the deepest of days. Redefined pow skiing for me the first time I was one them. My buddy skis the Protest, and he is happy too, but I really feel unstoppable whenever I'm on the L138. But I have other skis that I use for <10", while he is on the Protest almost every day.

for truly deep pow, i would suggest confining your search to dps lotus 120 or dps lotus 138 type skis... i think the wailer 112/jj/s7 type skis are rad, but they are not, from what you said, what you are looking for IMO. certainly there are alot of skis in that class, some better than others. as a dps employee, i will refrain from weighting different brands or products.

purely on what you said, i would strongly suggest looking at a 190cm DPS lotus 120. the more you like the mothership, and the more energy you like putting into the tail, the less you will like skis with tail rocker. this is where the lotus 120 and other skis in its class (tip rocker, flat camber, tail taper, no tail rocker) truly shine. the tail taper really keeps the ski loose and turny in tighter trees, but the ski is just silly fun when you commit to the fall line.

the hybrid DPS will feel much more similar to your motherships that the pures, which are way more reactive.

Originally Posted by auvgeek

Also consider 196 Praxis Protest or Praxis Powder boards.

^^^ this.

Or maybe the Lotus, but I have no experience with DPS other than fondling them. (EDIT: if you're thinking DPS, heed Marshal's advice... he knows)

Your post indicates that you're looking for a 10% ski. To me that's full rocker / no camber, and something approaching reverse sidecut.

Originally Posted by auvgeek

It seems like you're missing the the dedicated powder skis from each of the companies.

DPS 192 (or 202!) Lotus 138
ON3P 196 Pillowfight
Armada Bubba or ARG

Also consider 196 Praxis Protest or Praxis Powder boards.

If you're good with the Moships at 195, I'd personally go 202 Lotus 138. Got them up at Stevens Pass a couple times this season, and they kill it so hard! So confidence inspiring at all speeds. Even in tight trees, I couldn't believe a 202 cm ski could be so nimble. (I'm 5'11", 165# for reference.) Know that you'll probably need to switch it up in the afternoon on all but the deepest of days. Redefined pow skiing for me the first time I was one them. My buddy skis the Protest, and he is happy too, but I really feel unstoppable whenever I'm on the L138. But I have other skis that I use for <10", while he is on the Protest almost every day.

I did look at the super fat powder skis but they are usually heavy, need some speed and are not easy to maneuver in slower speeds, trees, tight spaces etc and thats the reason I did leave those super fats out of the selections because I would be looking at upgrading the Motherships to even bigger/heavier skis and thats not what I want. The 202 Lotus 138 would probably be my choice if I was doing some heli skiing in AK.

Originally Posted by marshalolson

for truly deep pow, i would suggest confining your search to dps lotus 120 or dps lotus 138 type skis... i think the wailer 112/jj/s7 type skis are rad, but they are not, from what you said, what you are looking for IMO. certainly there are alot of skis in that class, some better than others. as a dps employee, i will refrain from weighting different brands or products.

purely on what you said, i would strongly suggest looking at a 190cm DPS lotus 120. the more you like the mothership, and the more energy you like putting into the tail, the less you will like skis with tail rocker. this is where the lotus 120 and other skis in its class (tip rocker, flat camber, tail taper, no tail rocker) truly shine. the tail taper really keeps the ski loose and turny in tighter trees, but the ski is just silly fun when you commit to the fall line.

the hybrid DPS will feel much more similar to your motherships that the pures, which are way more reactive.

Thanks ofr the reply. I did put the Lotus 120 on my list just wasnt too sure if the skis are too bulky and too similar in shape to Motherships. Definitely much lighter thats for sure and more rocker for some snow surfing. How do they handle at slower speeds? Too bad there isnt some kind of Lotus 120/138 hybrid

Originally Posted by pisteoff

^^^ this.

Or maybe the Lotus, but I have no experience with DPS other than fondling them. (EDIT: if you're thinking DPS, heed Marshal's advice... he knows)

Your post indicates that you're looking for a 10% ski. To me that's full rocker / no camber, and something approaching reverse sidecut.

You may be on to something with the full rocker / no camber idea. I will have to demo one of those but I'm a bit skeptical since I spent 30+ years skiing on flat/stiff skis. On the other hand I may love it

Well, to be honest, I would still highly consider the Lotus 138.

Look at the weights: 190 L120 is just over 4 pounds per ski and the 192 Lotus 138 is 4.2 pounds per ski - less than my 181 K2 Hardsides (assuming you get the pure version). Honestly, I think weight is a poor excuse for not getting the 138. Even the 202 L138 weighs less than the AK JJ. Now, maybe you're on to something with them no performing at slow speeds, but that has not been my experience with them at all.

i fully agree with auvgeek here. although i have no personal experience with the l138s, i would think they'd be less like your big dumps than the l120s. in your case, it is go big or go home, in my oppinion, anyway

Why another pair of LONG powder skis.

A 190 Sumthin is never going to be quick in tight spaces or at slower speed. (Unless your looking at lots of rocker front an rear)

Look for a shorter pow ski in the 180's

I woould look at

Lhasa Pows

ON3P Calors/ BG's

Or 20 or 30 other good options out there

Originally Posted by marshalolson

for truly deep pow, i would suggest confining your search to dps lotus 120 or dps lotus 138 type skis... i think the wailer 112/jj/s7 type skis are rad, but they are not, from what you said, what you are looking for IMO. certainly there are alot of skis in that class, some better than others. as a dps employee, i will refrain from weighting different brands or products.

purely on what you said, i would strongly suggest looking at a 190cm DPS lotus 120. the more you like the mothership, and the more energy you like putting into the tail, the less you will like skis with tail rocker. this is where the lotus 120 and other skis in its class (tip rocker, flat camber, tail taper, no tail rocker) truly shine. the tail taper really keeps the ski loose and turny in tighter trees, but the ski is just silly fun when you commit to the fall line.

the hybrid DPS will feel much more similar to your motherships that the pures, which are way more reactive.

Not that marshal needs a +1, but this is dead on.

I'm 6'2", 220, ski 195 motherships as a charger, and hybrid 190 120s are my dedicated pow ski. In terms of pow skis, I've also been on 138s, ARGs, Line 130s, 196 Lhasas, and also have a pair of next year's Armada bubbas that i'm playing around with right now. As a pure pow ski the 120 fucking kills it, and I would take it over any of the above sticks in deep untracked. As marshal said, the pin tail and the big shovel combo bring them around about as fast as you could want in tight places, and when you point them down the fall line and drive the tips they're stupid fun and uber floaty. Definitely stiff enough to charge, but the shape still lets you break the tails loose at will and slash an amazing variety of turn shapes at both low and high speeds. In my experience the moships don't even wake up until you get them up to medium speeds, and definitely lock you into big/charging turns. The 120 will let you charge in pow as well, but is way more versatile at any speed.

Random Lotus Stoke:





buy some - you'll be stoked.

Originally Posted by good4nothing

Not that marshal needs a +1, but this is dead on.

I'm 6'2", 220, ski 195 motherships as a charger, and hybrid 190 120s are my dedicated pow ski. In terms of pow skis, I've also been on 138s, ARGs, Line 130s, 196 Lhasas, and also have a pair of next year's Armada bubbas that i'm playing around with right now. As a pure pow ski the 120 fucking kills it, and I would take it over any of the above sticks in deep untracked. As marshal said, the pin tail and the big shovel combo bring them around about as fast as you could want in tight places, and when you point them down the fall line and drive the tips they're stupid fun and uber floaty. Definitely stiff enough to charge, but the shape still lets you break the tails loose at will and slash an amazing variety of turn shapes at both low and high speeds. In my experience the moships don't even wake up until you get them up to medium speeds, and definitely lock you into big/charging turns. The 120 will let you charge in pow as well, but is way more versatile at any speed.

Random Lotus Stoke:

buy some - you'll be stoked.

Thanks for the heads up and the cool pics. The Lotus 120 really is tempting. Now the question is ... since these skis are also very popular for AT and I may do some touring in the future what would be the best way of setting these up. If I go with something like Marker Tour binding to have the AT capability, does it even make sense getting the Pure version since the Marker is so heavy? Light ski w heavy binding? On the other hand, getting Pure with some super light binding setup (PLUM etc) may not be the best option for somebody who will use it most of the time for regular resort pow shredding.

the pure ski differently that hybrids. get pure's if you want how the pure skis. get hybrids if you want how the hybrids ski. what binding you are putting on is totally irrelevant.

then figure out what binding makes the most sense for you. if you are skiing inbounds on the skis, i would not suggest getting tech bindings. if you want to ski them this season, then a duke/baron/tour 12 depending on your needs might make the most sense, but doing QK or BF inserts or a sollyfit type plate might be a nice option as well, so you can ski alpine bindings inbounds and tech bindings in the BC.

hopefully that is useful.

may or may not be a pair of 191 BG's in gear swap right now.[/spam]

The 191 BG is a good choice, although you would probably end up getting rid of your moships. The 186 Billy Goat is more playful, less chargy, and would complement the 195 moships nicely.
I like the idea of the DPS 120s, sounds like a good direction to go in.

This might not mean anything to the OP
But I like to point this out.
Your local indipendent Ski Manufactures (MADE In The USA) AND Better than.
WWW.pmgear.com = Reno
http://praxisskis.com/ = Incline Village Tahoe
www.momentskis.com = Sparks Nevada
www.on3pskis.com = Portland

All of these companies are well established make a great product an are discussed at great lenght in these forums

DynaLook (or sollyfit) plate from bindingfreedom.com on a pair of Loti would be money. The plate lets you run a turntable (FKS/Pivot) inbounds and a tech binder for touring. Best part is, you don't need to buy tech binders and boots until you're ready to start touring.

If you're willing pay full bang for DPS and you don't need them this season, I'd seriously consider the PM Gear 191 Lhasa Fat in full carbon. FWIW.

We sold out of the carbons in a flash.....and only one pair of hybrids left in the 191 Lhasa Fat.

Originally Posted by auvgeek

DynaLook (or sollyfit) plate from bindingfreedom.com on a pair of Loti would be money. The plate lets you run a turntable (FKS/Pivot) inbounds and a tech binder for touring. Best part is, if you don't need to buy tech binders and boots until you're ready to start touring.

again, agree on this. It's what I'm doing, except for on some 112RPs. It gives you the best of both worlds. You get lightweight for touring, and solid, low stackheight bindings for inbounds.

Originally Posted by marshalolson

the pure ski differently that hybrids. get pure's if you want how the pure skis. get hybrids if you want how the hybrids ski. what binding you are putting on is totally irrelevant.

then figure out what binding makes the most sense for you. if you are skiing inbounds on the skis, i would not suggest getting tech bindings. if you want to ski them this season, then a duke/baron/tour 12 depending on your needs might make the most sense, but doing QK or BF inserts or a sollyfit type plate might be a nice option as well, so you can ski alpine bindings inbounds and tech bindings in the BC.

hopefully that is useful.

Well, without having access to both of those, it will be hard to figure out how they ski. Perhaps you can summarize it for me so I dont have to spend hours of searching this forum. Assuming the Pure are stiffer?

Originally Posted by auvgeek

DynaLook (or sollyfit) plate from bindingfreedom.com on a pair of Loti would be money. The plate lets you run a turntable (FKS/Pivot) inbounds and a tech binder for touring. Best part is, you don't need to buy tech binders and boots until you're ready to start touring.

If you're willing pay full bang for DPS and you don't need them this season, I'd seriously consider the PM Gear 191 Lhasa Fat in full carbon. FWIW.

Excellent idea! Thanks for the link. I will definitely consider those plates for my next "hybrid" skis ...

Originally Posted by splat

We sold out of the carbons in a flash.....and only one pair of hybrids left in the 191 Lhasa Fat.

So how does 191 Lhasa Fat carbon compare to DPS Pure Lotus 120? I know I can search around, but perhaps, once again can you summarize it for me? Are those available for demo somewhere at Mammoth?

Well, I actually haven't skied the L120 (yet). I bought a pair (thanks Marshal!!) and sold them to my friend after hearing about the 191 Lhasa Fat. He hasn't mounted them yet (the lazy sumbitch), so I haven't been able to ski them yet and do a full comparison. I'm sure you come PM patches about it. The big 191 Fat thread is here. (Keep in mind that you'll need to special order the full-carbon version from splat, which is highly dependent on the availability of the carbon cloth. PM splat for pricing, but cost is competitive with DPS.)

In a nutshell, the Lhasa Fat is stiffer than the L120 (though you can get them softer than my pair, which are stiff as hell), have slightly more sidecut, and a little less tip rocker. I have found them awesome for everything, including groomers and ski mountaineering, which is far from their intended purpose. Personally, I find them better-suited for me than the Lotus 120 because they are stiffer and rip the shit out of everything, while still being super easy to ski. I was pretty worried about skiing them, as I'm coming off a long slew of injuries (hip and knee surgery), and they are now my everyday, go-to ski for the winter. I have Hardsides for when it hasn't snowed in two weeks, and I still prefer the L138 for a pure pow-day ski, but the 191 Fat sees more use than either.

Now, there might be too much overlap between these and your Motherships, but if you're really worried about overlap, I'd again consider the L138.

Okay, I'm getting down from my pedestal. I'm neither the best skier nor the biggest gear whore on the forum, so I'm sure others will have input that is more valuable than mine.

It sure seems like you need a pair of dps 138s. To my eye, that ski meets all the desires you listed.

From what you've written, I'd recommend the 120's. Pretty much +1 to what Marshal wrote. The 120's really aren't much like a mothership (the proportion of the ski in the tail is much less). The big tip and smaller tail insures that the skis have tremendous float even in very deep snow and allows you to release the tail or pivot over it if you need to make a quick turn. The downside to this is that it won't have the same stability at speed as your motherships, but there is no free lunch.

The pures are lighter and much more reactive/poppy than the hybrids which are 'damper' (less reactive). Stiffness is (as far as I'm aware) about the same. In the pures, any energy you put in the ski comes back at you more quickly. Good if you can keep up with it, not so good if you can't.

Paticularly if you plan on doing any touring, I'd choose the 120's over the 138's. Being narrower underfoot and with a shorter tail, the 120's are easier to get up a skin track on.

Didn't have a chance to read all the posts but I was a big fan of my 188 Praxis Protests on blower days but recently mounted up my 08/09 186 Bibbys. They are ridiculously fun. I'm 6'1 190 lbs and these have treated me well but then again, maybe I ski like a pussy. Have a set of 185 ARGs, 192 bentchetlers, and some spatulas anything haven't gotten to ride any of them thanks to the shitty ass weather. If you're ever in SLC and have a BSL around 335, PM me. Welcome to take whatever for a spin.

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