Thread: Review: 2012/2013 ON3P 191 Billygoat

solid thread! psyched that the shop i work at will be carrying on3p this year, i have heard only great things about the skis.

Skied on 184 Bibbys last year, but am moving up to AK for the winter so I may opt for a longer ski since there aren't many trees to steer around where I'll be skiing

Question: do the '12/'13 191 goats pick up your slack when your tired/lazy at the end of the day, or are they a demanding ski? (compared to a 190 Bibby).

ANOTHER question: still trying to figure out RES. This design seems like it describes a ski that would have most of its girth closest to boot center, but from the pics I've seen, the '12/'13 191 billygoat looks like it has pretty traditional sidecut. Can anyone comment on this?

Originally Posted by XavierD

191 porn

SWEET.....

Originally Posted by birdieparty

Question: do the '12/'13 191 goats pick up your slack when your tired/lazy at the end of the day, or are they a demanding ski? (compared to a 190 Bibby).

ANOTHER question: still trying to figure out RES. This design seems like it describes a ski that would have most of its girth closest to boot center, but from the pics I've seen, the '12/'13 191 billygoat looks like it has pretty traditional sidecut. Can anyone comment on this?

I have not skied the 190 Bibby. The 191 BG will not kill you in the same sense that an XXL will, that said I don't know how much it will pick up the slack, YOU are still the skier!

As for the RES... Scott will be along shortly to explain it... But it is best done over a beer or two...

Originally Posted by XavierD

YOU are still the skier!

haha, yeah...I was just thinking back to the reference point for that comment. steep tight trees + low vis conditions + tired legs = not a great time on almost any ski.

thanks for the feedback, now curiously awaiting scott's reply.

XavierD has much more time on it than me, so listen to him and Scott more than me.

But I think you can't go wrong with the 186 or 191. If you're over 165# and skiing open terrain, I'd definitely go 191. It's an awesome ski. The reason I bought one, despite having the 186 Renegade and the 191 Fat, is because of a very particular feeling: I launched a smaller cliff (5-10' max) at speed into untracked and had the best landing of my season. It just felt SO natural -- the tails sunk in, the tips floated, and I skied out feeling king of the world. And I'm 100% sure that was the ski.

Depends on how you want to ski them...if you have good snow and want to let them slide around, I guess the 191 is "easy" to ski at the end of the day.

If it is choppy or hard pack, and you want to ski fast...they are going to demand you pay attention, for sure.

Auvgeek sums up the ski well in soft snow, not just dropping stuff: It just felt SO natural -- the tails sunk in, the tips floated, and I skied out feeling king of the world.

sounds fun! not sure why these weren't on my original radar of potential AK touring skis, they sound like they rip. I'd be especially curious about the bg tour. I've been waffling between the protest, the megawatt, and the 190 bibby, but these are definitely clouding that picture…in the best way possible

Originally Posted by birdieparty

sounds fun! not sure why these weren't on my original radar of potential AK touring skis, they sound like they rip. I'd be especially curious about the bg tour. I've been waffling between the protest, the megawatt, and the 190 bibby, but these are definitely clouding that picture…in the best way possible

BG Tour is the same ski, just lighter (hence a slightly different lay-up)...but same dimensions, etc. If you are on the lighter side of things (under 185lbs) I see only pluses to going the Tour route.

191 BG is very different than the Megawatt, however. Totally different category, IMO.

Have weights for the tour versions (vicik/bg) been released yet?

Originally Posted by MJbumper1121

Have weights for the tour versions (vicik/bg) been released yet?

I have to stress that the sample size we have here for weights is small, just looking at the final prototypes of each model and thus its only based off a few pairs, but we'll have more accurate numbers once everything is pressed.

12/13 191 Billy Goat: 2450g
12/13 191 Billy Goat Tour: 2200-2300g
12/13 186 Vicik: 2200g
12/13 186 Vicik Tour: 2050g

EDIT: Stupid comment that I'm not qualified to make.

Awesome, Thanks Rowen!

Originally Posted by PowTron

191 BG is very different than the Megawatt, however. Totally different category, IMO.

seeing is how this is a discussion about skis, would you mind elaborating?

I haven't skied any generation of the megawatt, but a couple of my coworkers have owned/skiied gens 1, 2 and 3, and got to demo the carbon megawatts, so I have heard a bit about how they ski.

I like what I see for the BG specs on paper and what I have read in this thread because it seems like the updates to the design are to improve its soft snow performance (the RES tip, more taper, etc.) rather than making concessions to improve its hard snow performance. I don't really care how well any of the skis I mentioned earlier ski on hardpack, but I do want a ski that can handle the variable funk one often finds in the backcountry, in addition to being able to go really fast and be stable when the snow if fluffy and deep. The megawatt seems like it can do this, which is why its on my short list.

^^^^^^
BG is dual rocker 25-30 M radius, stiff, and more in 5 shape category.
Megawatt is a flat tailed huge rocker stiff, fast ski with 42M radius. Rips groom, crud and hovers in the pow.
only similarity is both are pow sticks.

Both are great, just very different. Each has its advantages and disadvantages. Just some of my opinions. There is a great megawatt thread by driver and I think I commented in it. I have a thread comparing Lhasa, to renegade to watts. Ren is sorta like res? Anyway, BG is an awesome ski IMO, but I don't have cash for another pair..........

Any feedback on the BG in tight trees. I have 191 LPow Hybrid and while they serve me well charging forward in the open big face untracked deep, exiting tight trees is a bitch. Should I change the mount position on the LPs or bring in the BG?

Originally Posted by MiCol

Any feedback on the BG in tight trees. I have 191 LPow Hybrid and while they serve me well charging forward in the open big face untracked deep, exiting tight trees is a bitch. Should I change the mount position on the LPs or bring in the BG?

I absolutely love my old 186 BGs for tight trees. They feel almost like a full on R/R in the trees. Very quick to shut down and change direction.

In comparison to the new 191, they have a more exaggerated pintail (super pintail - 140/115/120), they have more tail rocker, both in the amount, and in pronunciation. The tip shape is very different too, but I think the shape of the tail has the most influence on how a ski works in the trees. My guess is that the new design will float better, since the overall surface area in the tip has increased by quite a bit (not very tapered anymore), so that could actually improve manueverability.

PowTron's been on them, as well as the newer design in a 191. He can probably comment on any differences in manueverability. They'll be less manueverable, but I don't quite know by how much. I hope to hop on his 191s this year for a back-to-back to see if the new BG is for me, or if I need to seek out a different tree ski.

They definitely will work better than the LP in trees, due to tail rocker. More surfy and slarvy, and you'll float quite a bit better due to the overall design itself.

Originally Posted by Lindahl

I absolutely love my old 186 BGs for tight trees. They feel almost like a full on R/R in the trees. Very quick to shut down and change direction.

In comparison to the new 191, they have a more exaggerated pintail (super pintail - 140/115/120), they have more tail rocker, both in the amount, and in pronunciation. The tip shape is very different too, but I think the shape of the tail has the most influence on how a ski works in the trees. My guess is that the new design will float better, since the overall surface area in the tip has increased by quite a bit (not very tapered anymore), so that could actually improve manueverability.

PowTron's been on them, as well as the newer design in a 191. He can probably comment on any differences in manueverability. They'll be less manueverable, but I don't quite know by how much. I hope to hop on his 191s this year for a back-to-back to see if the new BG is for me, or if I need to seek out a different tree ski.

They definitely will work better than the LP in trees, due to tail rocker. More surfy and slarvy, and you'll float quite a bit better due to the overall design itself.

thanks !!

I don't think the newest generation gives up to much in maneuverability to the original 186. The 191 still felt like I could pivot, slip, and slarve just as much as the original design, but that the ass end was more solid when I needed it to be. The guys have been putting a shit ton of work into the Billygoat since the first year.

Older BG was more manuverable in trees. The original 186 BG was, in my opinion, the best tree ski out there; problem is no one else liked it outside o' the trees (I did not mind it). The new 12.13 BG is still more than capable in the tree department, but incorporates a significant improvement in it's ability to 'go.' I feel much more confident taking the new ski into drops with speed, than I did before. I use the 191 BG for just about everything.

soon, very soon

Originally Posted by whyturn

^^^^^^
BG is dual rocker 25-30 M radius, stiff, and more in 5 shape category.
Megawatt is a flat tailed huge rocker stiff, fast ski with 42M radius. Rips groom, crud and hovers in the pow.
only similarity is both are pow sticks.

Both are great, just very different. Each has its advantages and disadvantages. Just some of my opinions. There is a great megawatt thread by driver and I think I commented in it. I have a thread comparing Lhasa, to renegade to watts. Ren is sorta like res? Anyway, BG is an awesome ski IMO, but I don't have cash for another pair..........

What he said about the Megawatt...different category of ski than the BG.

As others have stated, the new BG is still great in the trees...and it is almost as quick as the original 186's that Lindahl has. Nothing is really as quick in trees as that OG ski, but then the 191 is a lot more versatile everywhere else. The speed-a-bility (new word) of the new 191 combined with the rocker profile and RES makes it the best all around ski I have ever owned.

Has anybody been on both the 2013 BG and the atomic automatic? Any comparisons out there?

Both seem like fun, playful skis with the ability to hold a line through chop. A lot of my skiing is in tight trees rather than wide-open faces, so I'm trying to figure out which is the more playful of the two.

I haven't been on any of the new Atomics yet, so I can't comment...looks like a fun ski, however.

Originally Posted by alkos

Has anybody been on both the 2013 BG and the atomic automatic? Any comparisons out there?

Both seem like fun, playful skis with the ability to hold a line through chop. A lot of my skiing is in tight trees rather than wide-open faces, so I'm trying to figure out which is the more playful of the two.

I have skied both. The Automatic is softer and easier to ski, definitely more turny and playful. The BG is more stable, more powerful - still playful and maneuverable, but not as much as the Atomic. Another ski in a similar category is the Rossignol Squad 7, which I'd place smack dab in between the Automatic and the BG.
IMO, the ON3P has far better construction quality and durability than either the Atomic or the Rossi.