Thread: Paging SystemOverBlow'ed and Tippster: Audio Recording devices opinions solicited

So I'm going to be recording an interview this week.

I've used the H4N a couple of times when I was last doing production, and I know everyone swears by it but I thought it was a POS. With the condenser lav I had, it just sucked. Way too quiet. It was easy to use but didn't feel like it was particularly well made or anything. Was I just spoiled by not using anything crappier?

Anyway, I really have no need for four track recording or any desire to spend $300.

If I get one of the cheaper Tascam's, am I going to walk away feeling like I wasted $100?

Considering:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...d_Digital.html

I haven't used a Tascam since the original one of these bad boys in the good old days:



Thanks for any help while I search for previous threads so I can quickly delete this before my audio Jongness is revealed

Originally Posted by ml242

So I'm going to be recording an interview this week. I've used the H4N a couple of times when I was last doing production, and I know everyone swears by it but I thought it was a POS. With the condenser lav I had, it just sucked. Way too quiet.

Interesting... My experience with the H4N was the opposite when using a 10-year-old sennheiser lav mic. I had to turn the input levels down to below half because it was too loud.

Originally Posted by ml242

Anyway, I really have no need for four track recording or any desire to spend $300. If I get one of the cheaper Tascam's, am I going to walk away feeling like I wasted $100?

I was debating the same thing and then a friend of mine pointed out that 4 channels could mean 1 or 2 remote mics and a stereo ambient source... Or 2 mics and an electric guitar + bass. Or 2 mics and the sound board. Or 1, 2, 3 or 4 mics. That old Tascam has 4 XLR and 6 RCA in for a reason.

It would REALLY suck to set up to shoot a panel of 3 people and say sorry but I can only mic you one at a time. I don't shoot weddings but groom/bride/priest/crowd seems like EXACTLY the place you want a 4 channel recorder (or maybe two).

I've had a lot of experience with the Zooms (H4, H2 and H4n) and I finally just jumped ship to a Tascam.

The main reasons were the pre-amps can be noisy on the H4n and, more importantly, I started to get audio drift on long interviews with the Zoom. It makes syncing to my 7D footage next to impossible without lots of editing. I have yet to experience this with the Tascam. So far, so good.

None of these units is pro-level the way a fancy Sound Devices or other recorder would be. But if you monitor using real headphones (not ear buds) you can usually dial in the sound and get the levels right. It's weird that you couldn't dial in the lav mic on the Zoom H4n. I've had no real problems with the Zooms on that front. A bigger issue is the short battery life these things all have when they're running phantom power.

The two track you linked to will be fine if it's just a 1:1 interview and you want to place the device near the subject or overhead, like a boom mic. It'll be better than the camera audio (if we're talking DSLRs here). There's also the 200 dollar Tascam D-40, which looks interesting though has some limitations compared to the next model up (300 bucks).

I'm really curious to try out the Olympus LS-100 when it streets next month (supposedly). That's $400 but looks like it may be the ticket to decent audio for less than $500.

Blaming the recorder for poor sound before blaming the mic?

Was your condenser lav plugged into the 1/8" or the XLR? If it was plugged into the 1/8" it wasn't powered and therefor you were using the built in mics on the H4n. Phantom only goes through the XLRs. I know it sounds obvious but I had a friend using the machine wrong for months wondering why it sounded like crap.

Also, just straight up the H4n won't sound very good. You need to go inside the effects and mess around for each person you interview and for the room tone.

Listen to the audio this guy gets out of using the built in condenser microphones.



PS... if you are using any other lav besides a sennheiser it was your mics fault and not the recorder.

And also, the Zoom is the LOWEST I would go. Sound Devices is what you should be using, but the H4n is for budget users. It should only be used when there is no other options. But it is the absolute best option for the money, hands down.

What exactly are you recording?

Thanks for getting back to this.

Originally Posted by FJ62

I've had a lot of experience with the Zooms (H4, H2 and H4n) and I finally just jumped ship to a Tascam.

The main reasons were the pre-amps can be noisy on the H4n and, more importantly, I started to get audio drift on long interviews with the Zoom. It makes syncing to my 7D footage next to impossible without lots of editing. I have yet to experience this with the Tascam. So far, so good.

None of these units is pro-level the way a fancy Sound Devices or other recorder would be. But if you monitor using real headphones (not ear buds) you can usually dial in the sound and get the levels right. It's weird that you couldn't dial in the lav mic on the Zoom H4n. I've had no real problems with the Zooms on that front. A bigger issue is the short battery life these things all have when they're running phantom power.

The two track you linked to will be fine if it's just a 1:1 interview and you want to place the device near the subject or overhead, like a boom mic. It'll be better than the camera audio (if we're talking DSLRs here). There's also the 200 dollar Tascam D-40, which looks interesting though has some limitations compared to the next model up (300 bucks).

I'm really curious to try out the Olympus LS-100 when it streets next month (supposedly). That's $400 but looks like it may be the ticket to decent audio for less than $500.

So after looking at all this stuff today, I got the Tascam D-40. Build quality seemed about the same as the zoom, but the guy at B+H was babbling that they made it as an H4N killer and it was really good, even considering it was $100 less.

Audio drift would kill me, I'm pretty shit at almost all of this stuff and don't want to have to fuck around trying to get shit to sync as much as possible.

I agree this isn't pro equipment at all, but this is still a huge market for people making little docs to throw up on vimeo, etc. In a certain way it's all pretty expensive and limited compared to a $500 ipad.

Originally Posted by systemoverblow'd

Blaming the recorder for poor sound before blaming the mic?

Was your condenser lav plugged into the 1/8" or the XLR? If it was plugged into the 1/8" it wasn't powered and therefor you were using the built in mics on the H4n. Phantom only goes through the XLRs. I know it sounds obvious but I had a friend using the machine wrong for months wondering why it sounded like crap.

Also, just straight up the H4n won't sound very good. You need to go inside the effects and mess around for each person you interview and for the room tone.

Listen to the audio this guy gets out of using the built in condenser microphones.

It was some $500 Sony thing, not my purchase. New batteries that I put in and XLR though. I don't buy Sony. Straight up no audio sounds good to me, but I just couldn't get enough gain out of the thing. It seemed like other people had similar issues with some condensors and the zoom. I'm going to have a plain wired Lav and a 57 for off camera plain voiceover.

looking forward to checking out the video after I hit reply, hope to learn some more.

Originally Posted by kalisto

What exactly are you recording?

I'm filming and recording this painter talking about his work on location in his studio:



Thanks for all the help today, I'll let you know if this thing sucks or whatever. Sure it's nothing one of these things couldn't fix:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...3_Channel.html

B+H is going to have to change their return policy, though

Sony\\\'s ECM-77B lavs seem to be the industry standard for TV ENG production. We do use Sennheiser MKE102 Lavs in the studio, but they are too finicky in the field. Sennheiser's K-6 phantom power module (on most wired Lavs) also seems to put out -40dB instead of -50 like most other microphones, which might explain the level discrepancy you experienced.

I don't use record decks so cannot comment on those - everything I shoot gets recorded in-camera, either directly from the Mic or through a Shure FP33 mixer.

In general you should never use the 1/4" or (shudder) 1/8" jacks if you have XLRs available - not because of phantom power or the lack thereof (shit - easy enough to install a AA battery in the mic) but because the audio is "balanced": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balanced_audio

Yeah those Sony's are pretty decent. I'd still use a sennheiser though

Originally Posted by systemoverblow'd

Yeah those Sony's are pretty decent. I'd still use a sennheiser though

Some colleagues of mine refuse to use anything but Tram Lavs. Me no likey, but will use whatever is at hand.

PS OP, if you're not monitoring through Sony MDR7506's you're doing it wrong

My apple earbuds arent good? But there white!

Originally Posted by systemoverblow'd

PS OP, if you're not monitoring through Sony MDR7506's you're doing it wrong

Man, speaking of "Industry Standard..."

Great Headphones. Have used them literally for 15 years.

Originally Posted by Tippster

Man, speaking of "Industry Standard..."

Great Headphones. Have used them literally for 15 years.

The IT guy at my new job "Hey those headphones you wanted are backordered for a month from our vendor. Could you pick out another pair"?
Me - "No, I'll use my personal ones until those come in".

Speaking of headphones, I was stuck outside during a big SWAT thing at my apartment complex today, and was shooting the shit with a bunch of the ENG crews and photogs. One team was rocking this little JVC cam, and they'd ziptied one cup from a pair of headphones to the handle so that it'd be right at the ear when looking through the VF. Probably nothing new but I'd never seen it before.

Just wanted to update the hive about this audio device. My shoot got cancelled, but I decided to fuck around with the Tascam before returning it.

The line out / headphone jack has one output setting which is pretty damn loud. Definitely an odd choice by Tascam to cheap out there rather than using additional software or a knob to monitor.

Then the amount of menus for everything else is pretty infuriating. It's well laid out enough but fuck me. Menu, scroll, select, scroll, select, scroll, select for anything you need to change. fuck that.

Lastly, i was using a line in today and the shit wasn't working. checked it on my mac and it worked fine. so fuck me. there's still no solution for $200 or under with xlr's...

And we're so close to having the perfect software driven device on an ipad that $200 seems like a waste of dough for a substandard audio recorder. I just expect these things to get a lot cheaper over the next year although the DR-40 is pretty close otherwise.

Originally Posted by Max Archer

Speaking of headphones, I was stuck outside during a big SWAT thing at my apartment complex today, and was shooting the shit with a bunch of the ENG crews and photogs. One team was rocking this little JVC cam, and they'd ziptied one cup from a pair of headphones to the handle so that it'd be right at the ear when looking through the VF. Probably nothing new but I'd never seen it before.

If this is what you saw, it's actually an integrated feature of the camera.

The interview didn't go as well as I hoped, but I got a few shots that I liked.