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Thread: Has the Avalung become a joke?
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01-27-2012, 01:40 PM #1
Has the Avalung become a joke?
It seems like the evidence keeps mounting that airbag use results in greatly increased survival rates in avalanche scenarios, whereas I haven't read any concrete statistics regarding Avalung use - just some anecdotes on Black Diamond's website. I've also read about victims who didn't have time to chomp down on the mouthpiece before being buried, and at least one where the skier's Avalung pack was ripped off his back in the slide. The overall impression I have of the Avalung is that it offers moderate safety benefits at best, whereas airbags seem to be quite effective at preventing burials.
With airbags continuing to drop in price, I'm wondering why anyone would actually choose to wear an Avalung over an airbag. Spending an extra $400 seems like a small price for a tool that is statistically proven to work, versus one that has no real data to back it up.
~A concerned Avalung (and future Airbag) owner
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01-27-2012, 01:49 PM #2
I always wondered why not just ski all day with the airbag inflated to maximize your safetey.
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01-27-2012, 02:50 PM #3
Neither are guaranteed to do anything. Both could increase your chances. Don't get hung up on the stats- they are too limited to technically make a statistically significant inference for either. However, that only means there isn't enough data, not that it doesn't work.
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01-27-2012, 04:18 PM #4
Also, use of both products is not mutually exclusive if you have a non pack integrated Avalung unit. Considering how cheap and available Avalungs are, I don't see the harm in using one regardless of one's opinions on the efficacy of airbag packs.
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01-27-2012, 06:32 PM #5
I've often wondered about O2 filled ABS with low permeabilty fabric panel near the intake point of an integrated avalung and, say, the back of your neck. In the event you do get buried the AB slowly leaks O2 into the snowpack around you.
Moronic?
Edit: patent pending just in case. Lol"Those 1%ers are not an avaricious "them" but in reality the most entrepreneurial of "us". If we had more of them and fewer grandstanding politicians, we would all be better off."
- Bradley Schiller, Prof. of Economics, Univ. Nevada - Reno.
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01-27-2012, 06:43 PM #6
Avalung seems a little more useful in a treewell scenario.
If the shocker don't rock her, then Dr. Spock her. Dad.
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01-27-2012, 07:27 PM #7
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01-27-2012, 07:52 PM #8Registered User
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The idea of O2 as a gas was debated on Wildsnow. The consensus was that oxygen can result in a freeze up which could hinder gas deployment. The risk of fire is probably more realistic than an explosion in a non confined space. on another note, the Apollo 1 fire 45 years ago resulted from 100% oxygen saturation in a confined space for hours and when the capsule ignited, pressure built until the capsule ruptured. I find it very doubtful that you would get an explosion from deflating oxygen from an air bag. Pure oxygen is used in health facilities all the time, and open flames are prohibited due to the fire danger.
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01-27-2012, 08:05 PM #9Registered User
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01-27-2012, 08:59 PM #10"Those 1%ers are not an avaricious "them" but in reality the most entrepreneurial of "us". If we had more of them and fewer grandstanding politicians, we would all be better off."
- Bradley Schiller, Prof. of Economics, Univ. Nevada - Reno.
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01-27-2012, 09:05 PM #11
What is blue and goes in your mouth?
hint: It's not a Smurf cock
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01-28-2012, 09:18 AM #12Registered User
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"High risers are for people with fused ankles, jongs and dudes who are too fat to see their dick or touch their toes.
Prove me wrong."
-I've seen black diamonds!
throughpolarizedeyes.com
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01-28-2012, 09:44 AM #13
I have (and use) both.
I use the Avalung for below tree line BC skiing since most likely an incident there will be an inverted tumble into a tree well or a small, tight avy path pocket pulling out. Plus it's lighter weight.
On the other hand, whenever I'm heading into wide open, above tree line alpine terrain, I take my ABS pack. An incident there will most likely be widespread and encompass more snow and power. In that case, an airbag pack is the safest bet.
P.S.-Last year my buddy was buried for over 45 minutes... calmly waiting and breathing through his Avalung until he was found and dug out. It saved his life.Last edited by DropCliffsNotBombs; 01-28-2012 at 09:59 AM.
Leave No Turn Unstoned!
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01-28-2012, 10:00 AM #14Registered User
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Well if you do survive the trauma (most avalanche fatalities) I would feel lucky to have either option. I would prefer not to be buried, but if I was I would prefer to have an avalung than not.
So no it isn't a joke. Frankly for not understanding this simple fact you are the joke OP.Brought to you by Carl's Jr.
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01-28-2012, 10:07 AM #15
X2 on the treewell value.
DROPCLIFFS that anecdote is gold. In that scenario it's what I would hope for, some extra time.
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01-28-2012, 04:21 PM #16
The best solution is to get both and duct tape and ziptie the Avalung to your airbag pack.
Avalungs protect against more situations than an airbag, if less reliably: airway protection while trying to ski out of an avalanche or slough, SIS (snow immersion suffocation) deaths like treewell or deep pow, and if you are critically buried in an avalanche, airbag or not.
Proper use of an Avalung is key to making the reliability near 100%. Skiing without the mouthpiece in is like driving your car with the seatbelt unbuckled. You don't wait until you see the oncoming semi to buckle up. Have it in and breath around it.
The bottom line is that the Avalung complements an airbag very well.Originally Posted by blurred
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01-28-2012, 05:24 PM #17
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01-29-2012, 08:58 AM #18__________________________________________________ __________
Aclimate Sports Drink- "Go higher feel better"
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01-30-2012, 01:08 AM #19
I treat it as cheap insurance, though I've never had to use it, yet...knock on wood.
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01-30-2012, 07:32 AM #20
Wrong. Not most.
24%
http://www.cmaj.ca/content/180/5/507.longLife is not lift served.
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01-30-2012, 07:46 AM #21Registered User
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01-30-2012, 08:31 AM #22Registered User
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01-30-2012, 09:09 AM #23
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01-30-2012, 09:16 AM #24Registered User
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Being trapped in snow because you have a broken back. Yeah, cause of death is suffocation but you probably wouldn't have suffocated if you could move. You may not be able to breathe but your inability to do anything about it is because you hit a rock, a tree, went over a cliff, etc. It's like saying the tree the you drove into killed you when in fact it was the 19 beers you had that did it.
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01-30-2012, 09:31 AM #25
You think that you're going to able to move around under the snowpack if your back's not broken? You're not even going to be able to wiggle a finger! You've never actually been in a slide or buried have you? I have...
Trauma-"shcmauma", it's all about being able to breathe. My friends who have died in slides over the years have all died from one thing. Not being able to breathe...Leave No Turn Unstoned!
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