Thread: 2012/2013 ON3P SIA Photos and Discussion

Originally Posted by PhiberAwptik

You have to take in to account what Scott perceives "soft" to be. I would expect the "I don't build pussy ski's" to carry over to the tour versions. I chose not to go with the tour because most of my skiing will be inbounds. If you are going to put up a lot of vert then the tradeoff would seem to be ok. I mean, if you're touring on a ski that big you're looking to ski pow anyways.

Let me be clear here: Scott never said they were "soft." He said "less torsionally stiff." He also said the tour version will hand flex as stiff, or maybe slightly stiffer, than the regular BG. Just wanted to clarify—hate to spread misinformation and deter anyone from going that route.

Thanks for the info on torsional stiffness, guys. I'd love to ski the regular and the Tour back to back to see what the real differences are.

Norseman: Congrats dude! Noticed you touring on the C&D at ASS. That's quite the hefty ski to lug around. Good for you.

Jah, a bit much but not terrible w/ Dynafiddles. I'm relegating them to resort pow now. BG's for pow touring, something lighter yet-to-be-determined for volcanoes/corn/big days.

We'll have to do the trade/comparo for sure.

Originally Posted by Rowen

I have to stress that the sample size we have here for weights is small, just looking at the final prototypes of each model and thus its only based off a few pairs, but we'll have more accurate numbers once everything is pressed.

12/13 191 Billy Goat: 2450g
12/13 191 Billy Goat Tour: 2200-2300g
12/13 186 Vicik: 2200g
12/13 186 Vicik Tour: 2050g

Any chance we'll see you guys with a narrower spring touring ski? The Vicik gained some girth this year, it'd be nice to see something around 95mm with a similar tip rocker profile. The Praxis Yeti fits the bill, but I love the ON3P construction (burly/damp), and wouldn't mind the extra weight that came with it (8-8.5lbs for something around 180-185). Spring-time skinning effectiveness (frozen sidehilling) makes a huge difference if you can get something about as wide as your boot (85-95mm), the Vicik is just a bit too wide, and 9lbs is above that magic invisible barrier for longer missions for just about everyone I know. If you guys want to do some sort of prototype for future development, let me know. I'd love to buy a non-pussified spring touring ski. A tour version of the Tychoon might've fit the bill, but a tour version doesn't exist and I heard it's skiing quite a bit different from the Vicik (per PowTron), a bit squirly/turny and not the typical ON3P charger style.

^^^^
95-100mm underfoot
sub 9lb (closer to 8lb ideal)
tip rocker, slight kick in the tail (ala Vicik or Praxis Freeride)
Do not shorten the running length too much! This is where the Praxis Yeti fails.
Turn radius of at least 25m! This is where the Tychoon (and most skis in this waist category) fail.
Medium-stiff, similar to a Vicik in overall flex.

This would be the ultimate spring touring ski IMO. Someone please build it!

Originally Posted by Lindahl

Any chance we'll see you guys with a narrower spring touring ski? The Vicik gained some girth this year, it'd be nice to see something around 95mm with a similar tip rocker profile. The Praxis Yeti fits the bill, but I love the ON3P construction (burly/damp), and wouldn't mind the extra weight that came with it (8-8.5lbs for something around 180-185). Spring-time skinning effectiveness (frozen sidehilling) makes a huge difference if you can get something about as wide as your boot (85-95mm), the Vicik is just a bit too wide, and 9lbs is above that magic invisible barrier for longer missions for just about everyone I know. If you guys want to do some sort of prototype for future development, let me know. I'd love to buy a non-pussified spring touring ski. A tour version of the Tychoon might've fit the bill, but a tour version doesn't exist and I heard it's skiing quite a bit different from the Vicik (per PowTron), a bit squirly/turny and not the typical ON3P charger style.

Originally Posted by adrenalated

^^^^
95-100mm underfoot
sub 9lb (closer to 8lb ideal)
tip rocker, slight kick in the tail (ala Vicik or Praxis Freeride)
Do not shorten the running length too much! This is where the Praxis Yeti fails.
Turn radius of at least 25m! This is where the Tychoon (and most skis in this waist category) fail.
Medium-stiff, similar to a Vicik in overall flex.

This would be the ultimate spring touring ski IMO. Someone please build it!

Just a heads up - per feedback from people like Powtron and everyone at ON3P just not being completely sold on how...tame the Tychoon was... it got a redesign this spring. It rips now.

When we originally designed it, there definitely was a bit of thought going into it that it wasn't a ski that was so much for ourselves. As we build more skis that sort of progression is inevitable, but after a few months of feedback, we realized we don't do skis like that as well as we do skis that are pretty much what we want.

So we threw out the old design, slimmed it down slightly, and increased the turning radius so that it was essentially a ~95mm Vicik, which is a shape we all love.

Tychoon is now...
161cm = 121/92/111, 20.6m, EE = 133.75cm
176cm = 124/94/114, 23.6m, EE = 146.5cm
186cm = 126/96/116, 26.6m, EE = 155cm

Mounting location on the 186cm got moved back 1.5cm from where people were initially skiing it (vicik too), so as a directional ski, I feel the balance is definitely improved. Plus it charges a lot harder.

I should have know we were going to be left missing something when we were drawing up a directional, 186cm ski with such a small radius, but we definitely saw the error in our ways. I think for some people, it would have been the right ski as is. But...that skis already exists 50 times over right now and people looking for that ski don't tend to buy our skis anyway.

So for the 186cm Tychoon...
95-100mm underfoot - 126/96/116
sub 9lb (closer to 8lb ideal) - Averaging 1930 grams/ski so far (only 1/2 thru first 186cm build), so around 8.5 lbs/pair I believe. A tour layup would probably bring that down around 125-140 grams, based upon my experience with the vicik & vicik tours.
tip rocker, slight kick in the tail (ala Vicik or Praxis Freeride) - Same rocker profile as Vicik
Do not shorten the running length too much! This is where the Praxis Yeti fails. 155cm, same as 186cm Vicik
Turn radius of at least 25m! This is where the Tychoon (and most skis in this waist category) fail. 26.6m
Medium-stiff, similar to a Vicik in overall flex. Similar flex pattern, though tychoon is just slightly softer overall

As I said, it rips now. I spent pretty much a whole day on them recently at Tline and forgot how fun it was to rail a ski that skinny. Jmos do the job pretty well, but you cannot drive the tips in the same way. I am definitely much more of a fan now than I was in the fall when we were working it up.

We talked about doing a Tychoon tour but worried about interest. If there IS interest, let me know. We already have everything designed for it, just hadn't moved to put it out yet as the weight of the stock model is reasonable and I just wasn't sure we would sell enough to make it worth our while this year. If you really wanted one with a tour layup this year, I am sure I could be bothered into building it for you.

Originally Posted by iggyskier

Just a heads up - per feedback from people like Powtron and everyone at ON3P just not being completely sold on how...tame the Tychoon was... it got a redesign this spring. It rips now.

When we originally designed it, there definitely was a bit of thought going into it that it wasn't a ski that was so much for ourselves. As we build more skis that sort of progression is inevitable, but after a few months of feedback, we realized we don't do skis like that as well as we do skis that are pretty much what we want.

So we threw out the old design, slimmed it down slightly, and increased the turning radius so that it was essentially a ~95mm Vicik, which is a shape we all love.

Tychoon is now...
161cm = 121/92/111, 20.6m, EE = 133.75cm
176cm = 124/94/114, 23.6m, EE = 146.5cm
186cm = 126/96/116, 26.6m, EE = 155cm

Mounting location on the 186cm got moved back 1.5cm from where people were initially skiing it (vicik too), so as a directional ski, I feel the balance is definitely improved. Plus it charges a lot harder.

I should have know we were going to be left missing something when we were drawing up a directional, 186cm ski with such a small radius, but we definitely saw the error in our ways. I think for some people, it would have been the right ski as is. But...that skis already exists 50 times over right now and people looking for that ski don't tend to buy our skis anyway.

So for the 186cm Tychoon...
95-100mm underfoot - 126/96/116
sub 9lb (closer to 8lb ideal) - Averaging 1930 grams/ski so far (only 1/2 thru first 186cm build), so around 8.5 lbs/pair I believe. A tour layup would probably bring that down around 125-140 grams, based upon my experience with the vicik & vicik tours.
tip rocker, slight kick in the tail (ala Vicik or Praxis Freeride) - Same rocker profile as Vicik
Do not shorten the running length too much! This is where the Praxis Yeti fails. 155cm, same as 186cm Vicik
Turn radius of at least 25m! This is where the Tychoon (and most skis in this waist category) fail. 26.6m
Medium-stiff, similar to a Vicik in overall flex. Similar flex pattern, though tychoon is just slightly softer overall

As I said, it rips now. I spent pretty much a whole day on them recently at Tline and forgot how fun it was to rail a ski that skinny. Jmos do the job pretty well, but you cannot drive the tips in the same way. I am definitely much more of a fan now than I was in the fall when we were working it up.

We talked about doing a Tychoon tour but worried about interest. If there IS interest, let me know. We already have everything designed for it, just hadn't moved to put it out yet as the weight of the stock model is reasonable and I just wasn't sure we would sell enough to make it worth our while this year. If you really wanted one with a tour layup this year, I am sure I could be bothered into building it for you.

Umm... well shit. Expect at least one order this spring (and probably lots more). You guys need to get this ski out there and people knowing about it... especially the dynafit spring crowd.

Also, really glad to hear that you guys are sticking with the same 'feel' to continue a proper brand. It's nice knowing that if you guys have a shape that I'm interested in, I'm gonna love the ski. It's the same reason my dad has been skiing K2 for 35 years - he just loves the way they feel, and it's always the same, no matter what ski he buys.

^^ this. Keeping my fingers crossed they make an appearance in CO for a demo day this spring

Nice, excellent work Scott! That will be a great ski.
I just ordered a pair of carbon Praxis Freerides for my Dynafiddle rig a few days ago, so don't think I can justify the Tychoon this year. 181 would be a more ideal length for me anyway for couloir skiing (186 will be fine for anyone normal sized, I'm scrawny). I will be ordering BillyGoats though...
Companies that build skis for real skiers and listen to their customers = awesome.

Originally Posted by adrenalated

Nice, excellent work Scott! That will be a great ski.
I just ordered a pair of carbon Praxis Freerides for my Dynafiddle rig a few days ago, so don't think I can justify the Tychoon this year. 181 would be a more ideal length for me anyway for couloir skiing (186 will be fine for anyone normal sized, I'm scrawny). I will be ordering BillyGoats though...
Companies that build skis for real skiers and listen to their customers = awesome.

Yeah, I'm with you on the 181, based on hiking with my 186 BGs this last spring. They were scraping in the dirt like crazy and I had to make all sorts of awkward movements to get down the trail at the end of a tiring day in the Gore. Those huge stairsteps at the end, descending down the Pitkin drainage trail sucked ass... though, that could have been the 10lbs of ski, 5.5lbs of duke, and 10.5lbs of alpine boots, as well.. haha. Looking forward to 8.5lbs of ski, 2.5lbs of dynafit and 7lbs of AT boot this spring.

I might even go the 176, but with the further back mount than the more center-mounted BGs, the skis will sit up higher on the pack, hopefully. We'll see.. if they bring them to a CO demo around March, then I'll try out the 176s and see if I like those or if I need more length.

Pulled the trigger on 186 Viciks for daily driver!!!

...Now just need to decide what binder combo to put on. 80-90% lift accessed 10-20% touring. Have BD factors. Tech, Barons, MFD w/ STH, sollyfit? Suggestions...

Can't wait until the show up!!

From the facebook page

That's hot

^^^ Sweet.

Lucky I got me one of these.

Tonight was our first date and they are resting comfortably on a king sized bed somewhere close to the base of Mt Hood.

I have woken from powderful dreams of winter storms to find them turned over — obviously restless for some turns in good snow this coming winter

Originally Posted by canwilf

I have woken from powderful dreams of winter storms to find them turned over — obviously restless for some turns in good snow this coming winter

Did you at least apologize for the midnight rape?

Ordered me some 191 Wrens

Originally Posted by iggyskier

Just a heads up - per feedback from people like Powtron and everyone at ON3P just not being completely sold on how...tame the Tychoon was... it got a redesign this spring. It rips now.

Hizzah! Glad you did this redesign and love the new direction for the Tychoon

Originally Posted by MJbumper1121

^^ this. Keeping my fingers crossed they make an appearance in CO for a demo day this spring

Discussions will be had on this matter

Originally Posted by adrenalated

Nice, excellent work Scott! That will be a great ski.
I will be ordering BillyGoats though...

Companies that build skis for real skiers and listen to their customers = awesome.

Attaboy, the smile on your face after skiing them last Spring made me think you were on the train to AWESOMEVILLE for this season.

Originally Posted by iggyskier

We talked about doing a Tychoon tour but worried about interest. If there IS interest, let me know. We already have everything designed for it, just hadn't moved to put it out yet as the weight of the stock model is reasonable and I just wasn't sure we would sell enough to make it worth our while this year. If you really wanted one with a tour layup this year, I am sure I could be bothered into building it for you.

There's interest. Already ordered Vicik Tours but if you're going to make a run of Tychoon Tours I'll throw my hat in that ring.

The comments on first page say the Vicik now has tail rocker and a half twin. Typo I hope? Assuming a misprint, also curious if the front gets changed in proportion to the width change, or identical to 2012.

Tychoon tours sound VERY interesting to me...

Originally Posted by Beyond

The comments on first page say the Vicik now has tail rocker and a half twin. Typo I hope? Assuming a misprint, also curious if the front gets changed in proportion to the width change, or identical to 2012.

Its technically a half twin, the rocker/camber profile for the Vicik is below:





Also, September Shop Update. Check out the new space and what we've built over the summer:

http://www.on3pskis.com/

I was just looking at your new shop pics yesterday, god I love to laminate shit.

I have not built a kayak in years, need to get back on that shit.

When do the BG tours get laid up?

I'd possibly be interested in a tychoon tour, would be nice to be able to ski the thing first though.