Thread: 2012/2013 ON3P SIA Photos and Discussion

Would also love to see a demo day in Tahoe, if only to help spread the word around these parts. The only other person I ever see on ON3P's is Josh A.

Music to my ears!

Originally Posted by PowTron

As for another Colorado demo day, I know Scott and the boys are looking for a time in late March, or early April.

Originally Posted by PowTron

I am a HUGE fan of the 12/13 as well...BIG TIME. The demo at the LUV went very well the last two days, it was good to see so many smiles under the Colorado sun.

As for another Colorado demo day, I know Scott and the boys are looking for a time in late March, or early April.

Glad to hear it. Missed out on this last one. The new Wren is more versatile now, PowTron?

Originally Posted by Lindahl

Glad to hear it. Missed out on this last one. The new Wren is more versatile now, PowTron?

Yes, the new Wren is more like the older one...but with way more ease to it and better in soft snow.

I am beyond stoked on the ski for next year.

Originally Posted by PowTron

...but for me and how I usually ski very forward, I can notice that updated tip shape quite a bit. They feel more "Caylorish" as far as surface area at the very front of the ski, which is a giant plus for me.
...but my buddy, who is on those 2012's loves them and barely notices the differences between his and my 2013's. He does ski more of a centered position, though.

Could you expand this? If the sidecut doesn't go traditional until boot midline - and read another post that said weight should be between arch and heel to carve - curious how these will do for someone who likes weight forward, carves rather than smears groomers and crud. Have no problems with 5-point designs like S7 or 112, but they have traditional sidecut all the way under the boot.

Originally Posted by Beyond

Could you expand this? If the sidecut doesn't go traditional until boot midline - and read another post that said weight should be between arch and heel to carve - curious how these will do for someone who likes weight forward, carves rather than smears groomers and crud. Have no problems with 5-point designs like S7 or 112, but they have traditional sidecut all the way under the boot.

The BG wants to be driven. On hardpack, if you sit neutral on them and just slide, they can wander a bit. Nothing bad, but they definitely track a lot better when you have your weight forward and actually carve them. As you drive the ski and engage the RES further towards the tips, the ski feels more locked in and engaged because you are utilizing more effective edge (as you obviously would on ski with traditional sidecut). The whole goal behind RES was to maintain the ability to actually make a locked in turn that was actually fun, not just functional, while seeing vastly improved soft snow performance and manuverability over a ski with traditional sidecut.

In crud/pow, what I like about them is you can both carve and smear. They can make larger, locked in turns, but if you need to dump speed, the ski doesn't fight you and you can just roll em over or kick out your heals. This goes back to what I've been working on achieving since before I started this, at least for the pow skis I use. The last time I had non-ON3P pow skis, I was using a Spat and then went to a 190 FFF. I loved the maneuverability of the spat, but I was always disappoint in their performance in the open because I ski over my tips a lot and I would just over-drive them. I loved the FFF in the open, but missed the maneuverability of the spat. So I basically wanted to create a spat/FFF hybrid that I could ski everywhere.

As for the 11/12 191cm vs 12/13 191cm, the biggest changes are going to be felt on hardpack. The 12/13 is just more locked in, carves better, and is more stable. It also feels a bit straighter, particularly as the skis start to get on edge. Once on edge, this will go away and they carve like a ski with 27-30m turn radius will feel (my measures would be the 191cm wrenegade, which feels slightly straighter, and the 186cm Vicik, which feels slightly more turny).

In soft snow, that changes aren't as pronounced, but are definitely there. The 11/12 is a bit more smeary and playful, where the 12/13 feels a bit more traditional in its turn shape, while maintaining the ability to smear as you want. 12/13 floats a bit better and is a bit more comfortable at speed. If I was skiing tight trees all day, I might actually prefer the 11/12 over the 12/13 as it is a bit more playful. But in pretty much any other situation, my style is more suited towards the 12/13. It just likes to go faster.

As for RES...making a ski that is completely reverse-sidecut from boot center forward actually carve a locked in turn has taken quite a bit of time. It definitely didn't happen overnight and we are still exploring the different ways we can use this design in new models, but I'm really happy with how everything is skiing. Right now we have 4-5 new RES prototypes that we are working on getting on snow in the next week and super excited about the potential this has opened up for us.

^^^ Thanks. Helpful. Think you have a new customer.

Is there any way to try out some skis in Whistler? I'd be really keen to try a 186 BG and/or 181 Wrenegade.

Originally Posted by D(C)

Is there any way to try out some skis in Whistler? I'd be really keen to try a 186 BG and/or 181 Wrenegade.

Pretty sure we are going to have a pair or two up to wren soon here that I am sure you can take out. Probably until the middle of the month though. Likely to be 186cm BGs and maybe a pair of 186cm Jeffreys.

Originally Posted by iggyskier

Pretty sure we are going to have a pair or two up to wren soon here that I am sure you can take out. Probably until the middle of the month though. Likely to be 186cm BGs and maybe a pair of 186cm Jeffreys.

Thanks Iggy. You don't know if anyone has 11/12 186 BGs I can try, do you? Performance in trees is something I'm very keen on and based on your description above, the older shape seems worth considering.

Originally Posted by D(C)

Thanks Iggy. You don't know if anyone has 11/12 186 BGs I can try, do you? Performance in trees is something I'm very keen on and based on your description above, the older shape seems worth considering.

I think wren has a pair as well, though he might be selling them. Not sure. I'll be in touch once I know what we are sending up there.

Originally Posted by PowTron

Yes, the new Wren is more like the older one...but with way more ease to it and better in soft snow.

I am beyond stoked on the ski for next year.

what are the specific changes on the wren between 11/12 and 12/13? (sorry if i missed this) and why the quick change after just one year, ... was there neg. feedback?

From what I've read, it seems like the BG and wren may be closer than before. Too me its seeming like the decision would come down to whether one wanted a pin tail or a more traditional styled ski. Anyone else have any thoughts or information regarding this?

DC, If you get the chance to try the 186 bg's in the trees, i'd like to hear about your experience.

[QUOTE=D(C);3573498 Performance in trees is something I'm very keen on and based on your description above, the older shape seems worth considering.[/QUOTE]



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Originally Posted by wwwllw

From what I've read, it seems like the BG and wren may be closer than before. Too me its seeming like the decision would come down to whether one wanted a pin tail or a more traditional styled ski. Anyone else have any thoughts or information regarding this?

I would base it on how much snow your area generally gets, and your preference for smearing turns out or carving through them.

Originally Posted by XavierD

I would base it on how much snow your area generally gets, and your preference for smearing turns out or carving through them.

This is a good jump off point for sure...they are very similar, but the BG feels more "loose" when you want it to be, and the Wren can lay down deeper arcs on harder snow. I can see the justification of having both in the quiver (Wren for no fresh up to a few inches, and the BG for anything more than that).

The problem with that line of thinking is that both can handle anything, so yes it is confusing . Overall, both great sticks and they lend themselves to the same applications...just can pick which end of the spectrum you prefer as XavierD eludes to.

I currently have three skis in the main rotation:

186 Line Prophet 115 for hard snow and maching on groomers/crud
191 12/13 Billygoat for my main ski (all around, do anything from 1 to 2" and up)
193 11/12 Cease and Desist for the days over 10" to 12" or Sled Access (Colorado snow is VERY light usually, so good to stay up on top of it)

I could see replacing my Prophet 115's with a 2013 191 Wren if I do ever get rid of them. I love the construction on the 115's (Maple/Metal) for hard snow, though due to the major dampness...just a preference for hard snow skis and me, usually.

Oh, hard decisions...1st World Problems, I know

I view both as bigger daily driver skis. My quiver is 193 Cease and Desist, 191 Billy Goat(2012/2013), and 186 Vicik (2010/2011). The Billy Goat gets the most work out here, where we regularly get 4-8 in days, and I can usually find some new snow somewhere. The Vicik is for other days, and touring. C&D gets a few days a year, when there is more than 18 in over night and/or it is especially heavy (moisture content) snow fall. I am happy with it, and am thinking about adding a wider (possibly new wren) ski, and a narrower sub 100 both with dynafits for more dedicated touring.

I am looking for a pair of skis to replace a pair of 2012 Line Sir Francis Bacons.

Me: Advanced Skier, 5'8'', 158 lbs

I felt the bacon was light, poppy, stable underfoot in fresh snow. I also felt that the ski was forgiving when I got bucked into the backseat.

In more chopped up conditions, heavy powder, or high speed groomers the ski felt short and slightly unstable. I felt that I was going to go over the handlebars multiple times.

I think that part of the problem might be the more center oriented mount.

I am looking for a Western Ski Daily Driver. Is there an ON3P ski that might be similar, but might be slightly more stable? Jeffrey?

Skis that I tend to like are medium to medium stiff with a round/balanced flex (ex. Volkl Bridge, Stockli XXL)

I tend not to prefer overly stiff skis and especially those with a stiff tail (ex. Volkl Mantra).

I begin my first real-life job upon graduation in May - so I'm thinking that gives me roughly 10 or 11 paychecks before I throw down for Viciks. Stoked!

1st generation BG's + Vicik's should be a nice little EC quiver.

Originally Posted by Viva Borracho

I am looking for a pair of skis to replace a pair of 2012 Line Sir Francis Bacons.

Me: Advanced Skier, 5'8'', 158 lbs

I felt the bacon was light, poppy, stable underfoot in fresh snow. I also felt that the ski was forgiving when I got bucked into the backseat.

In more chopped up conditions, heavy powder, or high speed groomers the ski felt short and slightly unstable. I felt that I was going to go over the handlebars multiple times.

I think that part of the problem might be the more center oriented mount.

I am looking for a Western Ski Daily Driver. Is there an ON3P ski that might be similar, but might be slightly more stable? Jeffrey?

Skis that I tend to like are medium to medium stiff with a round/balanced flex (ex. Volkl Bridge, Stockli XXL)

I tend not to prefer overly stiff skis and especially those with a stiff tail (ex. Volkl Mantra).

Jeffery without a doubt.

Originally Posted by Tonelli

I begin my first real-life job upon graduation in May - so I'm thinking that gives me roughly 10 or 11 paychecks before I throw down for Viciks. Stoked!

Be careful. I started my first job in September, after graduation last summer, thinking the same thing. Since then, I've bought 6 new (to me) pairs. Better skis than drugs though, I guess. Next up: BG tour.

Anyone want to let me try out a pair of this or next year's BGs (186 or 191) for a few runs at Stevens? I have a 310 bsl, and can definitely provide a something fun for you to try in return (186 Renegades, 191 Fats, 202 L138, etc).

Avugeek, I will be up at stevens quite a bit after finals end, 310mm, 191 12.13 BG. Green flylow jacket. Hit me up if you see me or we can coordinate a day. All of those sound awesome.

Sweet deal, man. Finals are done at the end of next week? Definitely shoot me a PM whenever you want to get out. And let me know which pair you'd like to try out.

I expect to ski next Thursday or Friday.

Originally Posted by auvgeek

Be careful. I started my first job in September, after graduation last summer, thinking the same thing. Since then, I've bought 6 new (to me) pairs. Better skis than drugs though, I guess. Next up: BG tour.

Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on how you look at things) I'll be working and living in Boston. I'm hoping I'll have enough sense to scale back on impulse skiing-related purchases!