Results 76 to 84 of 84
02-20-2012, 12:25 AM #76
Covert- you think you can get out of moving snow? Good plan.
You don't think the majority of people who get caught are pros? Maybe I should have said savvy instead. They're the ones riding it. I can guarantee Jim Jack and his crew went by the book.
and 3- Do you really think people get caught by factors they were aware of? No, they got caught by something unanticipated.
Apparently people around here think that guys with nearly 20 years experience in avi conditions with America's highest certs, bombing experience, etc are full of shit. I'll tell you what- you keep up that attitude. If anyone reading this thinks anyone's experiences in moving snow is horseshit, or perhaps you think you know it all, feel free to ski alone.
I hope your arrogance doesn't catch up to you, Covert.
02-20-2012, 05:27 AM #77COWHAMPSHIRE PARADISE
- Join Date
- Dec 2009
unfortunately, too many are not so fortunate.
rogSKI THE EAST
cuz it ain't fucking cool
02-20-2012, 09:27 AM #78
Baka wa shinanakya naoranai!
02-20-2012, 04:02 PM #79
Sure a lot of dick waving going on in a thread about how dick waving causes trouble. Carry on.
02-21-2012, 02:21 AM #80
My 2 cents.
Last April I was carried top to bottom in Alaska in a medium sized slide, which I documented here.
What I wrote does cover some of the issues addressed in the thread. I would like to emphasize a few points as well as perhaps add a few as there are opinions in this thread that do not match my one experience.
Firstly, ditching my equipment was not optional. As I said, I don't use pole straps and one ski was ripped off my foot in the first moments. The second ski's lack of release became my most imminent problem. The snow pulled HARD on the ski and only by pulling in my leg with maximum force did it release (by breaking), which immediately relieved the forces that would have likely caused serious injury had they persisted. There is a good account of a pro snowboarder caught in a slide in Japan and, after one foot broke free, the avi ripped apart his pelvis via his attached foot.
While I did insert my avalung before pulling my airbag, this wasn't the order I attempted. After my ski released, I went for my ripcord but, having never practiced with it (it was my second day with the bag) I fumbled it while snow was being pushed down my throat. Having trouble breathing, I decided to insert my avalung first (on which I have much practice), which allowed me to breath. I then made a more concerted effort at the cord, looking down at it and yanking it with both hands and it inflated.
Once inflated, I felt the pack straps pull me up, as if I was being lifted by my armpits and the violent tumbling abated. My experience was that it put my feet downhill, as though I were canyoning, but it could be because I did pull it later in the slide, when things may have been slowing down. I do not know.
I don't know what other people experienced but I did not experience panic. It was very easy for me to consciously decide what to do. Once I knew what was happening, I made the decision to cut right 45 degrees, when I fell I made the decision to bring my knee in and pull against the ski, I made the conscious decision to pull my cord and, when that failed and I was choking, I thought that my avalung may help so I went for it. I then worked the ripcord with all my effort.
I may add more later but it is time for me to go drinking!Days on snow this season: 54 Last Season: 83
02-21-2012, 03:00 AM #81
Didn't really feel like drinking, after all.
Anyway, I guess my final conclusion from my experience is to practice with your equipment. I may have consciously decided to go for the rip cord but it was an awkward motion toward an object I didn't really have good spacial awareness of (especially in the washing machine), having never even played with the ripcord before. The avalung, which I have been playing with for years, went in quite naturally.Days on snow this season: 54 Last Season: 83
02-21-2012, 08:32 AM #82
IMHO, never having had the experience of being in a slide, I would definitely ditch the skis and poles. Although, I feel like that might be a foregone conclusion in most cases. Besides, if the skis are still clamped to your feet after getting caught they're probably on there pretty tight & taking them off isn't going to be a trivial matter! Regardless, there are plenty of arguments I can come up with as to why skis-on is probably a bad idea; Just thinking about the way the airbag works, it seems pretty clear that skis/poles will act in resistance the effects of granular convection (which is why you float) both directly (in a fluid-dynamics sense) and indirectly, through an increased chance of getting caught up in "strainers" under the surface. That's all in addition to the risk presented by tumbling around with extra-long rigid appendages that can cause blunt trauma and act as force-multipliers (levers) on your biological joints.
Swimming? What's the point if you've got an airbag? The effect of flailing your arms and draining all of your energy is a drop in the bucket compared to the balloon on your back. Save your energy to maintain awareness so that you can avoid obstacles and act quickly and efficiently once the movement starts to slow. That way you'll be prepared to clear an air pocket, make sure there are visible indicators of your location above the surface to aid in rescue, dig yourself out, rescue your friends, etc...
It seems to me that it would be like taking a bad swim an a particularly nasty rapid; Go with the flow, there's nothing more draining and futile than trying to fight the physics of mother nature. It's all a waste if you don't leave yourself any for the hike out.
Last edited by smolakian; 02-21-2012 at 08:48 AM.
02-21-2012, 03:03 PM #83Skiing powder worldwide
- Join Date
- Jan 2004
Anythoughts on this?
02-26-2012, 07:12 PM #84demented
We also found that the avy air bags remain out on the leading edge of the avalanche if they are hit by a moving slide. If the air bags are placed in the starting zone and start moving at the same time as the avalanche it's a slightly different story, and usually the air bags remain in the forward 1/4 of the avalanche, but not out front. -WARI
- Join Date
- Oct 2010
- Hypertonic 'snatch
That is pretty much what occurs when a whitewater kayaker gets pummeled by a large ocean wave when the boater&boat wipe out on the green water vs. on the whitewash or in the whitewash (having the wave break over them.)
Thinking about how to deal with the shit ahead of time helps.
IME... of course.
(disclaimer: I have yet to be caught in a snow avalanche.)No matter where you go, there you are. - BB