Talk me out of a SportWagen TDI

[ill-advised strategy]

Good point. It is very important to really stay keyed in on flair awareness.

[iceman]

OK after suggesting for a while now that 2016 model would be the updated one, looks like VW just extended the 2015 model, added some features, and dropped the pricing.

Oh well.

Yeah I didn't know about the big update that was supposedly in the works, you're exactly right about what is is. Almost identical to 2015 but cheaper and with more stuff standard. They're basically just trying to grab market share.

[bagtagley]

I'll throw this into the mix
I picked up a Lexus IS300 sportcross a few years back. Sure it is not four wheel drive and only had electronic shift, but it was a great car. I would still have it if I did not have a need for a truck or could justify two vehicles. Fun to drive, comfortable and very reliable. Japanese built before manufacturing came to the U.S. Snow tires and some skill and it worked pretty good in the winter. Nothing from Toyota or Lexus since has been as appealing, except maybe the GT-86.

My old man had an IS300 sedan. Really fun little car. He still regrets selling it.

[XXX-er]

For some reason there is a burgeoning after marketplace for skid plates for these vehicles. Think I'd stay away.

not much GC and an aluminium oil pan I cracked the pan on both my Tdi's but never lunched the engine

I pretended I was a lawyer and convinced the town to pay for the last one

edit: so after oilpan # 2 I finaly got the skid plate for 300$ (DO IT!!) and what became apparent after I instaled it from the sound of rock/gravel/dirt/pavement on aluminium IS that you hit WAY more shit than your realize but the plastic belly pan never made any noise

[Adolf Allerbush]

I don't think the Euro (and even Domestics) cars as bad as they were and I don't think the Asian cars are as good as they were either.

They're all built to fail on about the same amount of mileage as one another. These discussions about Japanese vs Euro vs Merican are sort of silly in that regard, because none of the major automakers are looking to build something that runs for 1M miles. Plus, it very user dependent...some people think they're great divers but really beat the shit out of their vehicles.

[Foggy_Goggles]

Say what you want about longevity and reliability but I'm pretty sure apples to apples repair costs are Euro>Asian>Domestic.

[I've seen black diamonds!]

Say what you want about longevity and reliability but I'm pretty sure apples to apples repair costs are Euro>Asian>Domestic.

And the Euro-Asian difference is bigger than the Asian-Domestic difference.

[fatnslow]

They're all built to fail on about the same amount of mileage as one another. These discussions about Japanese vs Euro vs Merican are sort of silly in that regard, because none of the major automakers are looking to build something that runs for 1M miles. Plus, it very user dependent...some people think they're great divers but really beat the shit out of their vehicles.

TRUE-DAT !! I have a Honda/Saab/Mercedes Guess which one has had 2 failed transmissions ? Shitload of folks with Subaru's that needed to throw down $1500 for head gas gaskets on here.

[Adolf Allerbush]

TRUE-DAT !! I have a Honda/Saab/Mercedes Guess which one has had 2 failed transmissions ? Shitload of folks with Subaru's that needed to throw down $1500 for head gas gaskets on here.

I will say that my wife had a Suby and it broke down all the time. She's been driving a Ford since we replaced it and have had no problems. All of this stuff is rather silly though...unless all variables are equal it's hard to compare longevity. I do agree that as for costs of maintenance/fixes Euro>Asian>Domestic.

[4matic]

They're all built to fail on about the same amount of mileage as one another. These discussions about Japanese vs Euro vs Merican are sort of silly in that regard, because none of the major automakers are looking to build something that runs for 1M miles. Plus, it very user dependent...some people think they're great divers but really beat the shit out of their vehicles.

Disagree. A well built car will still have its structural integrity (no rattles) far beyond it's cheaper comparisons. Take an old Mercedes S-Class from the 70's or 80's and they will be tomb quiet and largely rattle free if maintained just at a minimum.

Clint Eastwood been driving his 500SEC since new. Seen that car on 101 with some blonde pawing at him:

[Adolf Allerbush]

Disagree. A well built car will still have its structural integrity (no rattles) far beyond it's cheaper comparisons. Take an old Mercedes S-Class from the 70's or 80's and they will be tomb quiet and largely rattle free if maintained just at a minimum.

Clint Eastwood been driving his 500SEC since new. Seen that car on 101 with some blonde pawing at him:

Guess I should've qualified that statement. Vehicles of similar quality fail at about the same rate. Manufacturers aren't going build a cheap indestructible vehicle that requires very little maintenance and last for a very long time. I'm sure Josie Whales has had work done on his whip to keep it going. Who killed the electric car comes to mind.

[El Chupacabra]

Guess I should've qualified that statement. Vehicles of similar quality fail at about the same rate. Manufacturers aren't going build a cheap indestructible vehicle that requires very little maintenance and last for a very long time.

These come to mind:

[skibummin]

Update on the 2011 JSW,

Dealership was able to tell me right away that it is the HPFP. They sent off a sample of the fuel to get it tested to make sure I didn't put gasoline in. No way that happened. Once it all comes back normal, they will order parts and perform the fix.

Then I'll be in the market for a replacement for this ticking time bomb.

[liv2ski]

Good to hear....long story short, if you need a VW diesel, lease it while under warranty and turn it in once the warranty is toast or you may be.

[uglymoney]

Good to hear....long story short, if you need a VW diesel, lease it while under warranty and turn it in once the warranty is toast or you may be.

That totally defeats the purpose of owning a diesel though right? Long term longevity of the engine + fuel savings = long term cheap cost of operation. The whole equation gets blown clean out of the water if you trade it in early.

People on here make fun of our Prius V Wagon (because it means we are not true drivers and don't understand the sport of driving and we are arrogant tree huggers etc) but we were looking at both TDI Wagons and the Prius Wagon and settled on the Prius. Similar mileage and way better reliability and no worries about owning them long term (I'm not worried about battery life after much research). More room than the 2014 VW's as well but the 2015's are closer in size at least. Also the older TDI's have a timing belt which requires expensive maintenance or more likely for myself a weekend lost into the garage vs eternal 10k mile oil changes and brakes that last forever on the Prius. Not as fun to drive or as cool though that is for sure.

If VW really has the HPFP issue fixed on the newer models + no timing belt + the newer ones are bigger = Subaru Outback is no longer available in a stick = the VW starts to look a lot more attractive to me.

[liv2ski]

From what I have read, if the car is being used more for highway commuting, than a diesel is the way to go. Hence my interest for those 400 mile one way trips to Mammoth 7-10 times a season. If the car is more for city driving, than the battery powered cars win in the mpg dept. So depending on your needs, determines what is likely better.
While I like the idea of 40mpg, it likely makes more sense to just set some cash aside for repairs and drive my V70R another 100,000 miles, if no one will build what I want to drive.

[uglymoney]

^That is what is nice about living where you live. Cars can last forever whereas they turn to dust here unless you store them 5 months a year.

On another note I drove my drunk friend home last night from a Yonder concert in his 2002 ish non turbo 911 with a six speed manual. It was fun. I appreciate the Germans a little more today.

[Plainview]

Guess I should've qualified that statement. Vehicles of similar quality fail at about the same rate. Manufacturers aren't going build a cheap indestructible vehicle that requires very little maintenance and last for a very long time. I'm sure Josie Whales has had work done on his whip to keep it going. Who killed the electric car comes to mind.

This should be further qualified with "vehicles built today/in the last few years." When the Japanese first got really rolling in the American market one of the big selling points was economy and reliability. By the late '80s/early '90s American cars were shit by and large while most Jap cars were reliable and economical and built to last. The Japanese prided themselves on building a top-quality product and it was their overall build quality and reliability compared to the domestics that accounts for them eating the domestic's lunch by the late '90s.

Over the last 20 years the Asian manufacturers have been looking for ways to cut costs and increase profit margins and one way to do this is to not spend so much on QC. While Toyota and Honda still build cars of uniformly high quality, they aren't the simple, bulletproof, highly engineered cars of 15-20 years ago. On the other hand the domestics have finally woken up and realized that if they don't start building cars that can actually compete with the Asians they aren't going to sell enough to stay in business.

So yes, domestics are better cars than they were 20 years ago and the asians are worse and overall they're pretty close to each other now.

The euros have also fallen off for the most part. Mercedes isn't building cars like Eastwood's 500SEC any more and Volvo and BMW don't build 'em like they used to either. Saab isn't even in business any more.

[frorider]

http://truckyeah.jalopnik.com/2017-v...-it-1730518252

[huckbucket]

The euros have also fallen off for the most part. Mercedes isn't building cars like Eastwood's 500SEC any more and Volvo and BMW don't build 'em like they used to either. Saab isn't even in business any more.

Strong argument can be made that Saab is out because they refused to cut corners and eventually couldn't command the dollars they needed relative to their manufacturing costs. Not sure if they were being inefficient, but their cars were more reliable than their reputation and were super safe based on design and parts. I've owned 5 and still drive an '07 daily. Best car from a reliability standpoint I've ever owned (beats my Hondas and Toyotas). The exception was the Integra I had. That was a super car.

[grskier]

http://truckyeah.jalopnik.com/2017-v...-it-1730518252

plug in 4 motion would be interesting.

[liv2ski]

plug in 4 motion would be interesting.

I want the diesel with awd in a wagon, but that could work. Plus, the pumpkin interior is so up my alley.

[iceman]

Strong argument can be made that Saab is out because they refused to cut corners and eventually couldn't command the dollars they needed relative to their manufacturing costs. Not sure if they were being inefficient, but their cars were more reliable than their reputation and were super safe based on design and parts. I've owned 5 and still drive an '07 daily. Best car from a reliability standpoint I've ever owned (beats my Hondas and Toyotas). The exception was the Integra I had. That was a super car.

To me they got on the wrong track after the 900, trying to make a car that was more normal and less SAAB. We had 3 different 900-series cars, they were all pretty great and ran forever. If they had stuck with that general idea they would have been much better off imo.

[fatnslow]

To me they got on the wrong track after the 900, trying to make a car that was more normal and less SAAB. We had 3 different 900-series cars, they were all pretty great and ran forever. If they had stuck with that general idea they would have been much better off imo.

They just flat out ran a bad business model for about 30 years and couldn't sell enough cars. The 9-3 and 9-5 that replaced the 900/9000 lines weren't that different and their finishes were never as refined as other euro brands. They were always a quirky brand and never quite achieved a healthy number. A lot of Saab folks want to blame GM for their demise but they had 9 toes in the grave for quite a few years before being sold to GM. This is coming from a Saab guy. Keep in mind even Volvo couldn't quite make it happen and had to be sold to Ford who then dumped it to a Chinese group.

[frorider]

Speaking of TDI, holy shit VW: http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars...-vw-violation/