Talk me out of a SportWagen TDI

[Flexon Phil]

I have had 15 Subies and about the same in VW/Audi products. Right now I have a 10 Jetta Sportwagen TDI manual tranny. I have had it for just under 2 years and it has just under 40K for mileage. In the summer I get about 41-42 MPG with snow tires (General Altimax) I am getting about 37 MPG. Size wise the car is about the size of the previous generation Leg/Outback, which IMHO was the best Subie size made.
So far it has been a great car even in Tahoes worst winter last season. If Subie had come out with their diesel I would have gotten another one but I will take the diesel over AWD, the proper tires make the difference for me.

[El Chupacabra]

^^^ So do you just lie to CalTrans at the chain checkpoints?

[iceman]

You can put chains on the veedub (even though they say not to) as long as you go low-profile. Just one example: http://www.etrailer.com/Tire-Chains/...FUOo4Aodvh-pmA (not sure those exact ones will fit but there's a bunch out there).

[Flexon Phil]

^^^ So do you just lie to CalTrans at the chain checkpoints?

Pretty much, yeah.

[Cocximus]

My GF's dad has a TDI passat vagon

Their tiptronic tranny can blow up.
They have some problems with the oil pump.
It seems like every generation has potential for major breakdowns.
Like someone mentioned the car has small issues all over. Heck my audi 90 quattro from 95 with 350 000 hold's it's own better.

On the other hand the acceleration is VERY good on these engines. These TDIs pull very hard.

I would rather pay double for gas than diesel for a car that doesn't doesen't give me issues.

[Smiley]

Ya unfortunately the US gets screwed out of the best cars while euro land gets the good stuff like awd turbo diesel wagons though here in ch they are fairly spendy

[HankScorpio]

If you're considering the VW Jetta Sportwagen, you might also look at the Audi A3. Very similar, also available in TDI (FWD only), or gas motor (FWD or AWD).

If Audi had built the A3 or A4 wagon with the diesel motor and AWD, for U.S. sale, that car would have been of interest to me. Still no manufacturer has sold a smaller diesel AWD car or wagon in the U.S. in recent times -- I think you have to step up to a Mercedes E-class wagon to get that, and then it's $$$$ and fairly large. I don't think BMW sells the 3-series in AWD + diesel + wagon here; either AWD (sedan or wagon) or diesel (sedan only).

The A3 is a great little ski car but Audi has their head up their ass because they don't offer Quattro, the TDI motor and 6 speed stick together. You have to sacrifice at least one. If Audi made that combo on an A3, it would just be perfect.

[iceman]

It is definitely crazy that you have to settle for two out of three. But it's not like they don't want to sell cars. As much as you hear people say they want a compact TDI quattro wagon with a stick, they would sell like twelve of them. Those twelve guys are noisy.

edit: "twelve" is a weird word. I mean look at it. It's like something out of Tolkien.

...moving on...

[liv2ski]

The A3 is a great little ski car but Audi has their head up their ass because they don't offer Quattro, the TDI motor and 6 speed stick together. You have to sacrifice at least one. If Audi made that combo on an A3, it would just be perfect.

Great news is, since no one will make a AWD, 6 speed MT, TDI wagon for the US, I just have to be satisfied with the next best thing and drive my V70R forever.

[El Chupacabra]

Great news is, since no one will make a AWD, 6 speed MT, TDI wagon for the US, I just have to be satisfied with the next best thing and drive my V70R forever.

Can you still buy a Volvo wagon with AWD + 6MT in the U.S.? Quick look at the Volvo website shows XC60, XC70 wagons with AWD, but 6AT only, and pretty poor MPG estimates -- 24ish hwy for the AWD versions.

[frorider]

Put aside the TDI aspect and focus on the real tragedy: it's getting harder to buy manual AWD cars in the first place.

The simplistic thinking among US dealers is that AWD is a premium level, and 'of course' someone buying premium level will demand A/T.

A few yrs ago the Volvo dealer was dumbfounded that I wanted the 6 spd manual AWD version (avail in US still).

[El Chupacabra]

The other part of the vanishing M/T story is that automatic transmissions are just getting better and better. A modern 6-speed (or 7, or 8) automatic transmission, whether torque converter or dual clutch, drives very nicely, and often gets better MPG than a manual transmission.

Some manufacturers also just use manual transmissions that don't shift very well -- sloppy gates, long shifter throws, weird clutch pedal feel. If Acura would make its TSX wagon with AWD (Honda/Acura has its SH-AWD cars, which drive quite well) + manual transmission (Honda typically makes very nice M/Ts), they might have a winner. Or at least twelve happy TGR customers.

I'm semi-car-shopping now, and I think the only car I'll realistically buy with a manual transmission any more would be a sports car.

[frorider]

dual clutch AT are in their own category. i wouldn't mind having one. torque converter trannys have come a long way but can still sorta suck when mated to a smallish engine that doesn't have much low-end torque.

I know there are some cars for which the AT gets as good, or better mpg, but that's just a result of the gear ratio choices. Since manuals are often in the entry-level model, they tend to use old 5 spd transmission designs.

If dual-clutch designs come down in price, all this would be moot. What's the long-term reliability/maintenance (150K miles) on a dual clutch?

[iceman]

Just buy an S4 with a stick and be happy.

[philth]

Shit, my XC70 would be fun with a 6 speed manual.

[Tuckerman]

Thanks all, looks like its a go. We have not had a car payment in 4 years which has been awesome, this is going to suck.

[GeezerSteve]

car payments?

vibes

[grskier]

It is definitely crazy that you have to settle for two out of three. But it's not like they don't want to sell cars. As much as you hear people say they want a compact TDI quattro wagon with a stick, they would sell like twelve of them. Those twelve guys are noisy.

edit: "twelve" is a weird word. I mean look at it. It's like something out of Tolkien.

...moving on...

11 of them are on this forum...

[Johnny Deep]

dual clutch AT are in their own category. i wouldn't mind having one. torque converter trannys have come a long way but can still sorta suck when mated to a smallish engine that doesn't have much low-end torque.

I know there are some cars for which the AT gets as good, or better mpg, but that's just a result of the gear ratio choices. Since manuals are often in the entry-level model, they tend to use old 5 spd transmission designs.

If dual-clutch designs come down in price, all this would be moot. What's the long-term reliability/maintenance (150K miles) on a dual clutch?

I got the DSG in my audi. It's a kick in the pants! Never thought I'd ever go AT, live and learn. Maintenance is cheaper if you DIY.

[Lev]

Bump

Just found out I'll be working next year at a place probably requiring about a 30-40 min commute. Been thinking about getting one of these bad boys. Did the OP get talked out of buying one?

[pointemstraight]

I was looking at the TDI wagons but they were a little out of my price range (ie, haven't been on the market long enough to bring the used prices down, the '09's start around $18k). I found a Saab 9-3 SportCombi wagon with a 6 sp manual trans - I was specifically looking for the 4 cyclinder (as opposed to the 6 cyl/Aero package) as the gas mileage ranges between 33-35 on the highway. I paid $11k, and it has 60k miles on the clock.

Reliability-wise, they get fairly good marks. I've been a Saab driver for quite awhile though, so I'm used to PITA cars (but do most of my own repairs).

Anyway, this was a decent compromise for me. It's not AWD, but I'm in MN and have never really needed anything more than FWD with snow tires, so that wasn't a concern. I really liked the newer Volvo wagons - the V50/V70's (not a fan of the lines of the XC series), but they stopped making a manual trans in the volvos in '05 or '06, which is a bummer. I know the new autos drive fine, but I still like that manual connection.

[Lev]

I was looking at the TDI wagons but they were a little out of my price range (ie, haven't been on the market long enough to bring the used prices down, the '09's start around $18k). I found a Saab 9-3 SportCombi wagon with a 6 sp manual trans - I was specifically looking for the 4 cyclinder (as opposed to the 6 cyl/Aero package) as the gas mileage ranges between 33-35 on the highway. I paid $11k, and it has 60k miles on the clock.

Reliability-wise, they get fairly good marks. I've been a Saab driver for quite awhile though, so I'm used to PITA cars (but do most of my own repairs).

Anyway, this was a decent compromise for me. It's not AWD, but I'm in MN and have never really needed anything more than FWD with snow tires, so that wasn't a concern. I really liked the newer Volvo wagons - the V50/V70's (not a fan of the lines of the XC series), but they stopped making a manual trans in the volvos in '05 or '06, which is a bummer. I know the new autos drive fine, but I still like that manual connection.

Dude, I'm with ya. I used to drive a 2002 9-3 SE and it was my favorite car I've owned. Sold it for stupid reasons (I blame the opposite gender I live with). I'm reluctant to return to the brand now that they're gone, but those SportCombi wagons are pretty sweet looking. Don't need AWD anymore, and I don't care to pay the shitty gas mileage. I'm attracted to the tdi sportwagen for the "have your cake and eat it too" mentality. Gotta go test drive one soon.

[pointemstraight]

Dude, I'm with ya. I used to drive a 2002 9-3 SE and it was my favorite car I've owned. Sold it for stupid reasons (I blame the opposite gender I live with). I'm reluctant to return to the brand now that they're gone, but those SportCombi wagons are pretty sweet looking. Don't need AWD anymore, and I don't care to pay the shitty gas mileage. I'm attracted to the tdi sportwagen for the "have your cake and eat it too" mentality. Gotta go test drive one soon.

In talking with the local Saab shop here (independent), he was telling me about how the Swedish bankruptcy laws are quite different from the US - essentially he said not to worry about parts availability, etc (which was one of my concerns). However, the fact that Saab went under definitely helped me drive the price down. The dealer had it listed at $14k, and I went negotiated down to 11, citing the fact that no soccer mom wants to buy a wagon with a manual tranny from a company that is defunct.

I know Saabs tend to get a bit of a bad rap (admittedly they have their quirks), but in this situation, it was the right car for this point in our lives. I wanted a wagon because I needed to fit in two car seats plus a 75lb lab, but I wanted something that got good mileage (it'll be the vacation car, and we make treks to the in-laws, 1300 miles away several times a year). The turbo adds a little fun-factor, but I'm not a super performance geek (to this point we had been driving a '96 Infiniti G20, essentially a nicer Sentra, with a four banger that would do 0-60...eventually). The Mrs. will be driving it for the most part as well.

A lot of companies are now really upping the mileage - but as these are just hitting the market, they are still waaaay out of my price range.

[Tuckerman]

Bump

Just found out I'll be working next year at a place probably requiring about a 30-40 min commute. Been thinking about getting one of these bad boys. Did the OP get talked out of buying one?

No we have had it for about 10ish weeks now and like it a lot. The MPG are great and getting better. I know that you can get close to the same mpgs on other cars but the tdi engine will last a lot longer then most (all) of them. We will drive this car until its death or hand it down when my kid can drive.

[pointemstraight]

the tdi engine will last a lot longer then most (all) of them. We will drive this car until its death or hand it down when my kid can drive.

Quoted for truth...