Thread: The College Industrial Complex

Originally Posted by Rubicon

I don't know, you will have to ask the people who claimed it was lucrative and/or easy. I claimed neither.

My bad. I thought your point was that the problem with public education cost has a lot to do with teacher compensation.

I think Pillsbury was talking about how easy a teachers job is and that the summers off in addition to holidays makes their situation lucrative, unlike 9-5 jobs in the private sector.

Originally Posted by nobueno

I don't even know why I'm still rambling. /rant over

You're a teacher. It's what you do.

Originally Posted by Adolf Allerbush

My bad. I thought your point was that the problem with public education cost has a lot to do with teacher compensation.

Nope. It doesn't matter in who's bank account the tax payer's money gets deposited, the problem with public education cost is the piss poor return we are getting for our investment.

If we were consistently turning out world class students I doubt many people would be complaining about the cost.

Mmmmmm sweat, sweat conservative resentment where college-dopes are the enemy of people who struggle to balance the obligations of holding a job and raising a family in a world of douchebag bosses, dead-end jobs, tight finances, and other social forces mostly unhelpful to people in their position. A world where a few badass conservatives like me can still make bank while everyone else fights for the scraps ....because of the libs.

Don't worry tho conservatives are stopping elite college grads and their new world order by solving all the common mans problems. If the solution has not reached YOU yet ..it's because the payoff is still trickling down. Be patient!!

Cause’ once the libs are purged, first against the wall: Learning is fundamental….ushering In: karate lessons and gutting the school system of all those uppity teachers.

Originally Posted by archer

Mmmmmm sweat, sweat conservative resentment where college-dopes are the enemy of people who struggle to balance the obligations of holding a job and raising a family in a world of douchebag bosses, dead-end jobs, tight finances, and other social forces mostly unhelpful to people in their position. A world where a few badass conservatives like me can still make bank while everyone else fights for the scraps ....because of the libs.

Don't worry tho conservatives are stopping elite college grads and their new world order by solving all the common mans problems. If the solution has not reached YOU yet ..it's because the payoff is still trickling down. Be patient!!

Cause’ once the libs are purged, first against the wall: Learning is fundamental….ushering In: karate lessons and gutting the school system of all those uppity teachers.

God that was boring !

Originally Posted by OSECS

God that was boring !

So says the dull ass that brays! brays! brays! Anyway, this is serious stuff, retard. Remember when Mittens said in the debate, “never get involved in politics if you have to win an election to pay a mortgage” and I think that’s really what you, Downbound Train and Rubicon are saying about going to college in this thread…. “never go to university if you can’t pay a mortgage.” That does sound right….doesn’t it?

Hey, what fun! I just started going through the college finacial canard. Guess what??

Yup, The government rewards the irresponsible and fucks the responsible!

Hey guys, whatever you do, don't save a cent if you have a kids. Spend it all or the schools will just take it when the time comes.

If you piss away all your money you can grovel like a welfare queen for government scraps.

It's a Win Win!!!

Originally Posted by Downbound Train

Hey, what fun! I just started going through the college finacial canard. Guess what??

Yup, The government rewards the irresponsible and fucks the responsible!

Hey guys, whatever you do, don't save a cent if you have a kids. Spend it all or the schools will just take it when the time comes.

If you piss away all your money you can grovel like a welfare queen for government scraps.

It's a Win Win!!!

Why are you worried about paying for university? Your inferior progeny probably aren't even qualified to work at McDonald's.

Sent from my Paranoid Android using TGR forums.

Originally Posted by Downbound Train

Hey, what fun! I just started going through the college finacial canard. Guess what??

Yup, The government rewards the irresponsible and fucks the responsible!

Hey guys, whatever you do, don't save a cent if you have a kids. Spend it all or the schools will just take it when the time comes.

If you piss away all your money you can grovel like a welfare queen for government scraps.

It's a Win Win!!!

DBT's children are too fucking lazy and dumb to get merit scholarships. Anyone surprised?

Originally Posted by archer

So says the dull ass that brays! brays! brays! Anyway, this is serious stuff, retard. Remember when Mittens said in the debate, “never get involved in politics if you have to win an election to pay a mortgage” and I think that’s really what you, Downbound Train and Rubicon are saying about going to college in this thread…. “never go to university if you can’t pay a mortgage.” That does sound right….doesn’t it?

An alias trying to wax serious ? Again boring, man you need a drink or blow a bowl or something. This just sucks. So either you're just stupid and can't understand what I said or you just couldn't find anything funny to say even from the safety of your alias. I'm disappointed man, disappointed.

Oh yeah, don't have to worry about paying the mortgage and paying for college both son and daughter got academic scholarships, saved my ass about $160k over 6 years.

And to think they're the product of a non union, public school system where the teachers are paid fairly and don't strike cause the union whispers in their ears that they're getting fucked.

Originally Posted by Hugh Conway

DBT's children are too fucking lazy and dumb to get merit scholarships. Anyone surprised?

Maybe they could qualify because they're handicapped: half of their DNA comes from DownboundTrain.

How unfortunate.

Sent from my Paranoid Android using TGR forums.

Originally Posted by Rubicon

Nope. It doesn't matter in who's bank account the tax payer's money gets deposited, the problem with public education cost is the piss poor return we are getting for our investment.

If we were consistently turning out world class students I doubt many people would be complaining about the cost.

It comes back to evaluating what our return on investment is...which is why I've been mentioning here that we should exclude ESL and special needs kids, since these two groups are driving up public education costs in most states. This assumes that you are for educating children born here of non-English speaking parents who immigrated here, legally or illegally, and that you are ok with educating special needs children. If we agree that these two groups of children cannot be ignored, then we should treat the distinct groups differently IMO because public education is not uniform for the three groups. Thus we should look at costs associated with educating English speaking, non-special needs children to assess what our return on investment is. If it's $5K per non-ESL/non-special needs child to acheive 60% metriculation rates to college, for example, perhaps more funding would help? Point being that there is a lot of oversimplification going on in this thread.

On a sidenote, a lot of conservatives I've talked to want to have a voucher system where they are alotted the funds they contribute to education via tax $$ and can spend that on sending their child to either public or private school. The obvious problem is that private schools can discriminate for a variety of reasons such as excluding ESL and special-needs children, thus keeping thier costs lower while providing what often appears to be supperior education, higher testing scores, etc. The voucher system doesn't seem like it could work to me.

Originally Posted by OSECS

Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah? Blah Blah, Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah a Blah or Blah. Blah Blah sucks. So Blah Blah you're Blah Blah and nobody can understand what I said or you just Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah of Blah Blah. I'm Blah man, Blah.

Blah Blah, Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah the Blah and Blah for Blah both son and daughter Blah Blah, fucked my Blah for about $10 over the course of 6 years.

Blah Blah Blah they're the product of an unholy union, Blah Blah Blah Blah the teachers are paid Blah and Blah Blah Blah the Blah Blah in their Blah that they're getting fucked.

I have not actually read your rambling post but I'm in agreement with Rubicon that education is bad for children. Teachers fill their minds with evil ideas. Have you ever noticed that while most schools teach "liberal arts" there is not one faculty that teaches "conservative arts?" I think that should tell even bleating benighted Cassandra's like you all there is to know.

Originally Posted by archer

I have not actually read your rambling post but I do agree with Rubicon that education is bad for children. Schools fill their heads with evil ideas. Have you ever noticed that while most schools teach "liberal arts" there is not a single faculty that teaches "conservative arts?" I think that should tell even bleating benighted Cassandra's like you, something.

Ooh, the dullness of it all. I hope you didn't think on that response too long. A total waste of 1s and 0s. Again dude, you were much funnier when you were channeling Steven Colberts schtick.

Now these blahs blahs, you didn't mean bleat bleat did you ? Another of the see and say barnyard characters. Maybe ????

Stick to what yer good at, you'll only give your self a bulging forehead vein if you keep worrying about trying to be serious with your alias posts, really nothing good can come from this. Besides every court needs a fool and you fit that bill. Be the fool , be your destiny.

Originally Posted by Rubicon

Nope. It doesn't matter in who's bank account the tax payer's money gets deposited, the problem with public education cost is the piss poor return we are getting for our investment.

If we were consistently turning out world class students I doubt many people would be complaining about the cost.

He says in a thread about the high costs of our world class university system

Originally Posted by CookieMonster

Why are you worried about paying for university? Your inferior progeny probably aren't even qualified to work at McDonald's.

Sent from my Paranoid Android using TGR forums.

Good point. A high GPA in a public school is close to meaningless as a measure of intelligence and work ethic. A chimp could get A's in the Union run system.

Ya know you ask your kids what they learned in school today and they always say "Nothing".

They aren't kidding.

Originally Posted by Adolf Allerbush

My bad. I thought your point was that the problem with public education cost has a lot to do with teacher compensation.

I think Pillsbury was talking about how easy a teachers job is and that the summers off in addition to holidays makes their situation lucrative, unlike 9-5 jobs in the private sector.

I never said it was easy, and I highly doubt there are many jobs that put you in the top 20% of wage earners working only 40 hour weeks. To clarify, I said it's not physically demanding.

I have great respect for SOME teachers.

I never said teachers were overpaid. I said SOME teachers are overpaid. The girl I was dating earns 105,000 a year including benefits. According to student review sites she is pretty much a horrible teacher. One of the kids said the only good thing about her class was getting to look at her ass. LOL. Of course, she's tenured, so there is basically nothing the district can do about her, regardless of the level of her incompetence.

My point was mainly that the general public perception that teachers are drastically underpaid is complete nonsense. There is no other profession that puts you in that top 20% that has the public thinking they are underpaid.

And, if you are a teacher and don't think you're earning enough, you're more than welcome to try and get a better paying job in the "real world".

Originally Posted by Pillsbury

I never said it was easy, and I highly doubt there are many jobs that put you in the top 20% of wage earners working only 40 hour weeks. To clarify, I said it's not physically demanding.

I have great respect for SOME teachers.

I never said teachers were overpaid. I said SOME teachers are overpaid. The girl I was dating earns 105,000 a year including benefits. According to student review sites she is pretty much a horrible teacher. One of the kids said the only good thing about her class was getting to look at her ass. LOL. Of course, she's tenured, so there is basically nothing the district can do about her, regardless of the level of her incompetence.

My point was mainly that the general public perception that teachers are drastically underpaid is complete nonsense. There is no other profession that puts you in that top 20% that has the public thinking they are underpaid.

And, if you are a teacher and don't think you're earning enough, you're more than welcome to try and get a better paying job in the "real world".

I see, not physically demanding (I guess you mean not lifting a ton of weight, hiking around a bunch, etc.?) but perhaps stressful. I think typical teachers put in more than 40 hours a week...at least that's what I've deduced via friends and family that are teachers.

The whole argument, mainly from GOPers, that a lot of teachers are overcompensated sort of falls apart when you put the "free market" spin on it. Let's take your ladyfriend's situation...allegedly she makes $105K as a public school K-12 teacher, plus healthcare, retirement and other benefits (if that's factored in I would guess she's making about $125K/year). You're in Washington State correct? I'm pretty sure teachers there are paid similar to teachers in Oregon. Anyhow, why wouldn't more folks pursue a career as a teacher if her situation is typical? Her situation is pretty lucrative compared to the average American. I'd say because she's full of shit, doesn't make that much, and pulled your chain.

I have several friends and a few family memembers that are, or used to be, teachers. Two of my family members retired from teaching K-12 public school education in the last five years. At the end of their careers (both 30+ years in the business), they were pulling in approximately $70K/year plus benefits. With benefits included I think their compensation penciled out to about $86K/year. I don't know about you guys but after 30 years of working in the same business I sure as shit better be making more than $70K/year. Shit, just working in engineering for 11 years I'm making well above that amount now. My friends that are still teaching are looking to get out and find "private sector jobs" as you say. Tenured folks are making around $50K/year and non-tenured are making in the high $30K's to low $40K's, plus bennies. This after about a decade in teaching. All of these examples are from Oregon. A couple of my friends started off teaching in private schools, which pay even worse than public schools here.

Point being I don't buy your argument or the rest of the folks here that are claiming public school teachers are vastly overpaid. That just hasn't been my experience. Are there some cases we can find where someone is overpaid? Sure, but in what business is this not the case?

Originally Posted by Adolf Allerbush

$105K as a public school K-12 teacher, plus healthcare, retirement and other benefits (if that's factored in I would guess she's making about $125K/year).

He said $105k including bennies. Don't help him out.

Prepared to bet that her bennies are being overvalued too.

Originally Posted by PNWbrit

He said $105k including bennies. Don't help him out.

Prepared to bet that her bennies are being overvalued too.

COPIED FROM TEACHER-WORLD.COM

"Virginia Teaching Salary and Benefit Information
If you're thinking about becoming a teacher in Virginia, you may be curious about the kind of Virginia teaching salary you can make. As the slogan goes, Virginia is for lovers—but as far as salary goes, Virginia is also for teachers, with the average teacher salary reaching $49,999. That's over $3,000 higher than the average statewide salary.*

Salaries aren't the only reward for becoming a Virginia teacher. The perks of the job are also attractive, making up for the hours spent grading homework assignments and focusing your students on the tasks at hand. Teachers in Virginia Beach, for instance, receive a generous package that includes health and dental plan options, a state retirement plan, sick leave, credit union membership and other benefits.**

That's not the whole story, though, when it comes to your Virginia teaching salary. Factors such as how much experience or education you have can affect how much you make. In some public school districts like Virginia Beach, teachers with a master's degree or doctorate earn an additional annual stipend.**

Virginia teacher salaries also vary depending on what grade level you teach. At the elementary school level, teachers earn an average of $58,842, while middle school teachers earn $59,532.*


Geographic location also has an influence on how much teachers earn, especially in a state like Virginia, which includes both rural communities and cosmopolitan, Washington, D.C.-area cities. Here's a comparison of the Virginia teaching salary for secondary school teachers in five of the largest metropolitan areas in the state:**
Arlington: $68,340
Lynchburg: $44,020
Richmond: $54,380
Roanoke: $52,380
Virginia Beach: $55,340"

Originally Posted by OSECS

COPIED FROM TEACHER-WORLD.COM

"Virginia Teaching Salary and Benefit Information
If you're thinking about becoming a teacher in Virginia, you may be curious about the kind of Virginia teaching salary you can make. As the slogan goes, Virginia is for lovers—but as far as salary goes, Virginia is also for teachers, with the average teacher salary reaching $49,999. That's over $3,000 higher than the average statewide salary.*

Salaries aren't the only reward for becoming a Virginia teacher. The perks of the job are also attractive, making up for the hours spent grading homework assignments and focusing your students on the tasks at hand. Teachers in Virginia Beach, for instance, receive a generous package that includes health and dental plan options, a state retirement plan, sick leave, credit union membership and other benefits.**

That's not the whole story, though, when it comes to your Virginia teaching salary. Factors such as how much experience or education you have can affect how much you make. In some public school districts like Virginia Beach, teachers with a master's degree or doctorate earn an additional annual stipend.**

Virginia teacher salaries also vary depending on what grade level you teach. At the elementary school level, teachers earn an average of $58,842, while middle school teachers earn $59,532.*


Geographic location also has an influence on how much teachers earn, especially in a state like Virginia, which includes both rural communities and cosmopolitan, Washington, D.C.-area cities. Here's a comparison of the Virginia teaching salary for secondary school teachers in five of the largest metropolitan areas in the state:**
Arlington: $68,340
Lynchburg: $44,020
Richmond: $54,380
Roanoke: $52,380
Virginia Beach: $55,340"

I'm not really sure what that has to do with my words you quoted?

Originally Posted by OSECS

COPIED FROM TEACHER-WORLD.COM

"Virginia Teaching Salary and Benefit Information
If you're thinking about becoming a teacher in Virginia, you may be curious about the kind of Virginia teaching salary you can make. As the slogan goes, Virginia is for lovers—but as far as salary goes, Virginia is also for teachers, with the average teacher salary reaching $49,999. That's over $3,000 higher than the average statewide salary.*

Salaries aren't the only reward for becoming a Virginia teacher. The perks of the job are also attractive, making up for the hours spent grading homework assignments and focusing your students on the tasks at hand. Teachers in Virginia Beach, for instance, receive a generous package that includes health and dental plan options, a state retirement plan, sick leave, credit union membership and other benefits.**

That's not the whole story, though, when it comes to your Virginia teaching salary. Factors such as how much experience or education you have can affect how much you make. In some public school districts like Virginia Beach, teachers with a master's degree or doctorate earn an additional annual stipend.**

Virginia teacher salaries also vary depending on what grade level you teach. At the elementary school level, teachers earn an average of $58,842, while middle school teachers earn $59,532.*


Geographic location also has an influence on how much teachers earn, especially in a state like Virginia, which includes both rural communities and cosmopolitan, Washington, D.C.-area cities. Here's a comparison of the Virginia teaching salary for secondary school teachers in five of the largest metropolitan areas in the state:**
Arlington: $68,340
Lynchburg: $44,020
Richmond: $54,380
Roanoke: $52,380
Virginia Beach: $55,340"

Ouch, don't want to be a teacher in Virginia. Average teacher salaries are pretty pithy. DC is a pretty expensive place to live if memory serves. But you say you're happy with the public schools there?

Originally Posted by Pillsbury

The girl I was dating earns 105,000 a year including benefits. According to student review sites she is pretty much a horrible teacher. One of the kids said the only good thing about her class was getting to look at her ass. LOL. Of course, she's tenured, so there is basically nothing the district can do about her, regardless of the level of her incompetence.

I, like others, have serious doubts about this claim. Simply doesn't jive with what my friends that are teachers tell me, and there is no reason they would be underestimating. One of them left teaching because it simply didn't pay enough. teaches music on the side now to neighborhood kids because he loves it.

wait... what were we talking about?

Originally Posted by Adolf Allerbush

I see, not physically demanding (I guess you mean not lifting a ton of weight, hiking around a bunch, etc.?) but perhaps stressful. I think typical teachers put in more than 40 hours a week...at least that's what I've deduced via friends and family that are teachers.

The whole argument, mainly from GOPers, that a lot of teachers are overcompensated sort of falls apart when you put the "free market" spin on it. Let's take your ladyfriend's situation...allegedly she makes $105K as a public school K-12 teacher, plus healthcare, retirement and other benefits

105K figure includes benefits. Pre bene figure is roughly 70K. The information didn't come from her. It's all public information. And, no I am not going to post it, because that would reveal her name, and I don't trust that some fuckstick like Dex won't fuck with her.

Again, I'm not saying that teachers are vastly overpaid, but the 20 year old mantra that teachers are horribly underpaid is patently false.