Thread: The College Industrial Complex

Seroiusly....Take the time to watch this. As a guy with 4 kids getting ready to go to college, it really pisses me off.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpZtX...layer_embedded

We are sooooo fuct.

That is a great video. And by "great" I mean informative and eye-opening, not really great.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com...e-is-snobbery/

(CNN)

"The hubris of this president to think that he knows what's best for you [...] This is the kind of snobbery that we see from those that think they know how to run our lives," the former Pennsylvania senator said in a forum at St. Anselm's New Hampshire Institute of Politics.


Obama has repeatedly said he wants the United States to have the highest proportion of college graduates in the world by 2020. Earlier this year, while announcing plans to reform "No Child Left Behind," Obama also said he intends for every student to graduate "career and college ready."

But Santorum, whose children's education includes home-schooling, argued that not everyone is suited for a college education.

"I have seven kids. Maybe they'll all go to college. But if one of my kids wants to go and be an auto mechanic, good for him, that's a good paying job, using your hands, using your mind," he said.

Santorum calls for the federal government to have a "very limited" role in education, advocating for "flexible and personalized approaches to education for each child to best maximize their potential."

"We are leaving so many children behind because they're not ready to go to college - they don't want to go to college, they don't need to go to college," Santorum said Saturday.

Yup that was a good one. You may like this basic one about money as debt, fractional lending and banking as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dc3sK...eature=related

Originally Posted by Downbound Train

But Santorum, whose children's education includes home-schooling, argued that not everyone is suited for a college education.

Apparently Santorum billed Pennsylvania taxpayers $100,000 by enrolling his children in a private online school in addition to home-schooling.

The video focuses initially on the inflated costs of private school, in contrast, Finland where there are no private schools has achieved a great deal of success by focusing on high quality public educators and trying to achieve equal success for all :

Education has been seen first and foremost not as a way to produce star performers, but as an instrument to even out social inequality. ... Finland offers all pupils free school meals, easy access to health care, psychological counseling, and individualized student guidance. In fact, since academic excellence wasn't a particular priority on the Finnish to-do list, when Finland's students scored so high on the first PISA survey in 2001, many Finns thought the results must be a mistake. But subsequent PISA tests confirmed that Finland -- unlike, say, very similar countries such as Norway -- was producing academic excellence through its particular policy focus on equality.

Since the 1980s, the main driver of Finnish education policy has been the idea that every child should have exactly the same opportunity to learn, regardless of family background, income, or geographic location. Education has been seen first and foremost not as a way to produce star performers, but as an instrument to even out social inequality.

As insensible as that sounds, Finnish students have been turning in some of the highest test scores in the world.

Originally Posted by Triage

Apparently Santorum billed Pennsylvania taxpayers $100,000 by enrolling his children in a private online school in addition to home-schooling.

The video focuses initially on the inflated costs of private school, in contrast, Finland where there are no private schools has achieved a great deal of success by focusing on high quality public educators and trying to achieve equal success for all :

Education has been seen first and foremost not as a way to produce star performers, but as an instrument to even out social inequality. ... Finland offers all pupils free school meals, easy access to health care, psychological counseling, and individualized student guidance. In fact, since academic excellence wasn't a particular priority on the Finnish to-do list, when Finland's students scored so high on the first PISA survey in 2001, many Finns thought the results must be a mistake. But subsequent PISA tests confirmed that Finland -- unlike, say, very similar countries such as Norway -- was producing academic excellence through its particular policy focus on equality.

Since the 1980s, the main driver of Finnish education policy has been the idea that every child should have exactly the same opportunity to learn, regardless of family background, income, or geographic location. Education has been seen first and foremost not as a way to produce star performers, but as an instrument to even out social inequality.

As insensible as that sounds, Finnish students have been turning in some of the highest test scores in the world.

Are you suggesting that the Finnish model for education would produce similar results in the US if we were to adopt it?

That first video is an hour long! Can we get an executive summary please.

Originally Posted by Phill

That first video is an hour long! Can we get an executive summary please.

That would take a lot of time. It's not really a "sound bite" problem. Take it in small bites. ?

Originally Posted by Phill

That first video is an hour long! Can we get an executive summary please.

College is way too expensive (true) and college is a bad return on investment (not true). Not true because all our jerbs are belong to douchebags who went to school:



The polarization of the American job market between those with college educations and those without is startling. It's true to a certain extent that college is a certification racket. But ask anyone with the means to do so if they will be sending their kids to college and the answer is almost always yes. It's always someone else's kids who should grow up to be a ditch digger.

That someone else would be DBT and Santorum, but the world needs ditch diggers too.

Granted college has gotten too expensive, but there is not a ditch digger or auto mechanic that would not benefit from a college education.

Education is never a bad thing. I have ways told my daughters they can do anything they want, but I expect them to get an education. With one they can do anything, including digging ditches. Without on they are limited to ditches and other such positions.

I see no reason not to have a goal of a 100% college educated populous, knowing full well it will never happen. Just as fifty years ago the goal was to have a populous with a high school education, and 100 years ago an eight grade education.

Originally Posted by Phill

That first video is an hour long! Can we get an executive summary please.

Yeah, because learning something over an hour of your life is so difficult. No wonder our country is in the shitter.

Originally Posted by hutash

I see no reason not to have a goal of a 100% college educated populous, knowing full well it will never happen. Just as fifty years ago the goal was to have a populous with a high school education, and 100 years ago an eight grade education.

I actually quite agree with you but think this reference will need to be retired soon as we shouldn't we be shooting for all doctorates in another 50 years. Point being, it is ridiculous to believe we will have a "better" country if we jam as many people into higher education as possible.

Originally Posted by hutash

Granted college has gotten too expensive, but there is not a ditch digger or auto mechanic that would not benefit from a college education.

Education is never a bad thing. I have ways told my daughters they can do anything they want, but I expect them to get an education. With one they can do anything, including digging ditches. Without on they are limited to ditches and other such positions.

My brother is the service manager for a nation wide company. He just barely squeaked through high school. He is a very smart person and makes good money. He just doesn't do good in classroom situations. I'd like to know how $30K plus out of his pocket will help him, his wife and 2 children by getting an "education".

Grow the fuck up. High education isn't a benefit for everyone and never has been. I wouldn't be where I am without my degree but I would never say that spending a ton of money on education is a benefit to all people. That is just a stupid statement and I would expect more from you.

Originally Posted by Rubicon

Are you suggesting that the Finnish model for education would produce similar results in the US if we were to adopt it?

why can't one EVER take a notion from some other countries policy? Why does it have to be all or none? I know you need to reflexively shoot down success stories as "unamerican" but c'mon...

Originally Posted by systemoverblow'd

...Grow the fuck up. High education isn't a benefit for everyone and never has been. I wouldn't be where I am without my degree but I would never say that spending a ton of money on education is a benefit to all people. That is just a stupid statement and I would expect more from you.

If this is your knee-jerk, then perhaps you could benefit from additional education.

Originally Posted by systemoverblow'd

Yeah, because learning something over an hour of your life is so difficult.

Most of the videos content is propaganda especially in the way it manipulates statistics but when lawyers and bankers do see a 90% drop in their real incomes because soon the wealth gains will go to producers like agricultural workers then somebody should definitely bump this thread and say, "I told you so."

Both my bosses are drop outs. One from High School, one from College. Neither from a background of any kind of privilage. Both in the 1%. One worth millions.

Most of the comments defending college are coming from people who didn't watch the video I suspect.

You may watch the video and still defend the status quo but if you didn't watch the video you are arguing out of context.

Originally Posted by systemoverblow'd

My brother is the service manager for a nation wide company. He just barely squeaked through high school. He is a very smart person and makes good money. He just doesn't do good in classroom situations. I'd like to know how $30K plus out of his pocket will help him, his wife and 2 children by getting an "education".

That's great.

Originally Posted by systemoverblow'd

Grow the fuck up. High education isn't a benefit for everyone and never has been. I wouldn't be where I am without my degree but I would never say that spending a ton of money on education is a benefit to all people. That is just a stupid statement and I would expect more from you.

A lot of my friends are salesmen...some of them have a bachelor's degree, some don't...I think all of them would agree that having a college eduction isn't critical to their jobs...but at the same time it's not like time wasted. Then there are the typical examples that folks throw out there of Bill Gates and Steve Jobs. Anyhow, a more educated population seems like a good thing to me...

Originally Posted by Triage

Most of the videos content is propaganda especially in the way it manipulates statistics but when lawyers and bankers do see a 90% drop in their real incomes because soon the wealth gains will go to producers like agricultural workers then somebody should definitely bump this thread and say, "I told you so."

They worded that kinda funny. As if the way they see the world will actually happen. Wish it would but it won't. (Unless the economy blows to smitherines)

That video is just a sales pitch for gold. I don't know why I expected anything else coming from our resident glenn beck parrot, but the video had me going for a bit.

Originally Posted by Adolf Allerbush

Anyhow, a more educated population seems like a good thing to me...

That would depend on what they are being educated about. Our system spend a lot of time on worthless bullshit and liberalism. Other countries are kicking our ass not because they have a longer school day or school year or smaller class size.

Originally Posted by systemoverblow'd

My brother is the service manager for a nation wide company. He just barely squeaked through high school. He is a very smart person and makes good money. He just doesn't do good in classroom situations. I'd like to know how $30K plus out of his pocket will help him, his wife and 2 children by getting an "education".

Grow the fuck up. High education isn't a benefit for everyone and never has been. I wouldn't be where I am without my degree but I would never say that spending a ton of money on education is a benefit to all people. That is just a stupid statement and I would expect more from you.

For one thing, he would know his bother is an idiot.

When did being ignorant become such positive attribute? Sure some people are successful without education. Even people without a high education have done well, but look at any stats you want, and college educated people come out on top, except in the "stupid TGR posts" category.

Originally Posted by jfost

If this is your knee-jerk, then perhaps you could benefit from additional education.

He said that everyone would benefit from higher education. Which is 100% bullshit. Yes, knowledge is important, but someone spending a years salary+ to learn something that isn't going to benefit them financially is stupid. I am applying for my masters. Why? Only because I get $5K/year tuition reimbursement from my job. I wouldn't do it otherwise. In the grand scheme it may not offer a valuable cost : reward ratio. I like to learn though, others don't.

I wouldn't be so bold to say that higher education is for everyone. My first year of University, I took American Geography. First day of class we were given a blank US map and told to name the states. I got 47 correct. The majority of the class got 10-15 correct. You really think these people who skated through high school were going to benefit skating through higher education?

I love how there is a decent rallying crowd against higher (or any extra) education. That really shows the value system for lots of people...

Why wouldn't you want more education. You guys realize that a "good salesman who makes good money" could well expand his or her mind with higher ed. It isn't always about tangible ROI, you need to probe the gray areas a bit. Who knows, maybe they'll take an econ or polisci class and get fired up and make our country greater?

You don't have to pay $$$ into the system, I def. get the bashing of buying a degree that has "little worth" financially - but jeezus, who in their right mind goes around saying "moar educashun sucks!!!"

Originally Posted by systemoverblow'd

...You really think these people who skated through high school were going to benefit skating through higher education?

YES! They will likely be somewhat better off, either financially, spiritually, or at the very least will have had access to sweet sweet poon for 4 years.