Thread: ACL Class of 2012

love to join you guys but I am stuck in NJ... Where did you have scar tissue issues? I heard one other person (who also was a woman)who had scar tissue but I dont understand where you get scar tissue issues from the artho? 22 miles is really good especially for just starting to ride. Good job.

Good news on the progress Snow Gypsy!

Looking back at my ride history it looks like I did my first ride at just 10 weeks (road/clipless), and my first mountain bike ride at 12 (also clipless). In hind sight that was definitely pushing it and I was probably very luck not to have f'd things up! Goddam though, I was going crazy in the gym!

It's pretty cool to read the updates here and see people getting back at it. Seems like 100 years ago that I was wondering if I was going to have the mental toughness to make it through this, and now I wonder what I was so worried/bummed about?

Here's a little stoke for you guys from last week...
Oh yeah, if you don't have garmin bike computer I highly recommend!

BoatBound,

Iit's basically genetic. Everyone and every body responds to surgery different. I've always healed wicked quick from any kind of injury. For example, I had a bad bike crash last summer (missed a switchback) and launched into a gravel field. Luckily my face stopped by fall. A week later you couldn't even tell.
Apparently, my body's a machine when it comes to fixing itself. It's response to my ACL surgery was doubly massive. It freaked, producing scar tissue at a ridiculous rate. It locked down my joints and caused massive swelling and all sorts of not so good things. The consequence of this was a complete loss of motion and an incredible amount of pain trying to get that motion back. The scar tissue was so intense it actually dislodged the latch holding onto my graft. I found out after surgery that my family has a history of this kind of thing - they forgot to tell me about it. Women are definitely more prone to it from what I hear. You can also increase your likelihood of having this reaction if you go into surgery too quickly or if you push it way too hard to fast.

WOW! So sorry to hear of that Snow. I hope you are over the hump then and on your way. Geeze, that sucks. Yikes.... You don't need that for sure. Good job on persevering through it all


Bend- some really nice riding. I miss that very much but I have to admit that I am not that comfortable at those speeds. I have a Garmin 310xt I use for hiking, running and riding. It is great for tracking all the fun stats. I just bought a heart rate monitor as I start to work on my cardio. I need to find out when I can start to run a little.

I went to PT before my 3 week post-op appointment with my OS. I'm doing squats and was measured at -3 extension and 124 flexion. The OS cleared me from wearing my knee brace and was impressed with my walking. It's such a relief to get rid of the brace and start making good progress.

just watch the graft! The brace is really there to protect it. after 2 weeks it starts to breakdown and becomes very unstable until it re-knits itself. The vast majority of OS (including Steadman) require wearing an ACL brace for 6 weeks..... Caveat emptor.

SnowGypsy - sick! You're killing it. Who would have thought you'd be this far given all the drama post-op. I hope you're feeling really upbeat about your progress. I'm sure the ridiculous weather has been helping. My PT said once you get to 120, increasing range gets a lot easier, so I hope that's what you see. Once I could actually crank on a spin bike, I jumped up pretty fast.

BendTheSki - I'm a Squaw to Evans kinda girl. Can't deny it. That being said, the descent off the backside of Loveland down to Keystone is one of the best around. Big swooping turns. Congrats on that ride. It's a crank, and it's definitely tough on the knees as well. Hopefully I'll be there by August or so.

LoMayn, thanks for the props! It feels pretty awesome to be up and moving again. Let me know when you're heading up. My doc is thinking mid-August for single track. I'm thinking July. It's shaping up to an epic kind of summer. We just need some rain.

Bend, thanks for the biking stoke! I've always thought of myself as a skier - first and foremost. But my god, did I miss my bike. I found myself wishing that I had blown my ACL a bit earlier so I would have been back on my beloved singletrack sooner. Living in a place with some of the best trails in the world right out your door doesn't help.

I've been riding singletrack vicariously through everyone I can - I am that creepy gal at the bottom of the trail cheering people on and asking perpetually, "how was it? Did you hit that little jump after the last switchback? I love that techy section right by the tree. Did you get that drop..." I bring beer so I am tolerated.

yep! I think I am pretty much a 60% skier, 40% rider now... I was fine missing the season but now i am jonesin' to get back on the trails. I am going to talk to my PT Monday about getting the OK to start hitting buffed stuff on platforms. He's in CO and I am in NJ so I just check in with him time to time for updates and report on progress.

Originally Posted by snow gypsy

LoMayn, thanks for the props! It feels pretty awesome to be up and moving again. Let me know when you're heading up. My doc is thinking mid-August for single track. I'm thinking July. It's shaping up to an epic kind of summer. We just need some rain.

Bend, thanks for the biking stoke! I've always thought of myself as a skier - first and foremost. But my god, did I miss my bike. I found myself wishing that I had blown my ACL a bit earlier so I would have been back on my beloved singletrack sooner. Living in a place with some of the best trails in the world right out your door doesn't help.

I've been riding singletrack vicariously through everyone I can - I am that creepy gal at the bottom of the trail cheering people on and asking perpetually, "how was it? Did you hit that little jump after the last switchback? I love that techy section right by the tree. Did you get that drop..." I bring beer so I am tolerated.

Im 3 months post hamstring graft, pushed a little too hard I guess, PT said let pain be your guide and I really didnt feel any while doing my exercises but decided to not take a rest day a couple weeks ago when swelling increased, and I guess that was a bad decision.

Swelling has still not gone down to the level it was before then, I took a few days off completely, and I've had some kneecap pain. Went back to the DR 5 days ago and he diagnosed patella tendonitis and gave me a very small brace to put pressure on the patella tendon which does seem to help with the general walking around.

I'm kind of paranoid now though, I mean they told me let pain be my guide and I didn't push through pain, I just didnt take a day off soon enough when swelling increased. This week I've been doing the exercise bike for 10-15 minutes two or three times a day combined with small amounts of the exercises to strengthen the hip and hamstring, along with hamstring stretching, since as I understand it patella tendonitis is caused by the quads being too strong compared to the hamstrings, and the hams not being flexible enough. This makes sense since I was kind of over doing it with the quad exercises and probably slacking off a bit on the hamstring ones before this happened, so now I'm mostly taking it easy and doing the opposite.

Icing and elevating but the swelling is still just not coming down. I feel a small amount of tenderness around the sides and top of my kneecap, hardly anything but I am paranoid because I didn't feel any pain before this started either. I'm not sure if this tenderness is just swelling related or something else.

I'm headed to the PT on monday and will probably stop by the DRs again too, but I was wondering if anyone dealt with this particular complication?

At the very least I don't think I am really going to slow down my recovery and muscle growth by taking a week or two mostly off but I'd still like anyone elses perspective.

I knew there had to be an upside to blowing my knee early and beating the Christmas rush!

Leroy, I had some pretty good residual swelling/pain for the first 3-4 months. Everyone I knew who had this surgery recommended cadaver over hamstring, but I knew better (not). The reason they all cited was only having to rehab one injury/surgery instead of two. Still have some tenderness/diminished strength in that area, and unfortunately cycling doesn't seem to really address it. Did a long hike the other day which seemed to target the area more without too much trouble/pain, going to have to keep after it though. My PT felt the swelling was limiting my ROM and did a good deal of deep tissue massage to help improve. I think it’s kind of a vicious cycle; the swelling limits ROM and contributes to pain/inflammation limiting ROM. I’m sure you already know, but ice is your friend. Not sure what you’re using, but the cryo-cuff with intermittent compression did wonders working some of the extra fluid out of the affected area. I know I probably sound like a shill for Donjoy/AirCast, and if I’d known when my ortho prescribed it my insurance wouldn’t cover it I’m not sure I would have ponied up the $200.00 it cost, but in hind sight it was money well spent and I’m still using it.

FWIW, I iced every day for 6-8 hours while working for the first two months, and probably 3 or so hours a day for the next month and still had some tenderness and swelling to contend with. I think a lot of it had/has to do with the nature of my injury. When my ACL popped my knee went out of joint momentarily and then did it a few more times as I skied/gimped out to the road (switch). I kind of think the impact and subsequent dislocation might have done some soft tissue damage in addition to the ACL and meniscus tear, and is going to take time to fully heal. The other thing is I tore the same hamstring a few years earlier which didn't seem like a big deal at the time, but my PT has commented that my calf feels a little lumpy right below where the hamstring connects so maybe some residual damage from that injury. Anyway, the ortho said 6 months before returning to full activity, but more like a year to 18 months before I should expect my knee to be as recovered as it’s going to get. You’ve got plenty of time; backing off for a week won’t set you back much in the grand scheme of things.

LoMayn, Squaw to Evans is a burly ride. I've only ridden Evans once from a house I was renting 5mi up 103. I did it on my mountain bike because I wanted to be able to enjoy the downhill. Even then it was a pretty hairy descent after a grueling climb! Props to anybody who completes this ride, especially starting from Evergreen or Idiot Springs!

I've had a lot of calls from residents on Squaw Pass/Hwy 103 bitching about the cyclists. I tell them the cyclists are within their rights and the law (unless they're riding 2-3 abreast which I know sometimes happens), but I don't think they like that answer. I took a call today from a cyclist who was harassed by a motorist up there. Said the guy pulled along-side about 18 inches away and leaned on the horn while the cyclist was doing 30+mph. This state is weird; so many cyclists and so many motorists that apparently hate us…

Snow Gypsy, feel free to bring beer to the bottom of any trail I may be riding! Some rain would be really good. My favorite downhill is sketchier than usual because it’s so dry and loose. I saw some dirt bikes riding up it today. They’re not really supposed to be there because the area is closed to motorized vehicles, but I don’t usually see more than one or two dirt bikers back there all season and I didn’t want to be “that guy” “you guys really aren’t supposed to be back here” bla, bla, so I just said hello and kept riding.
Early on I thought about hanging out at the base of Loveland with some cold beers and asking folks about conditions, but I pretty much knew conditions weren’t all that and my beer might have frozen.

BoatBound, if you’re in North Jersey there’s some great mountain biking right on the NY/NJ border in Ringwood, NJ (Ringworm). Some of my old crew might still get together for Wed eve rides. I can look into it if you’re going to be in that neck of the woods and want to ride with some folks who know the area.

Culcrsr, sounds like you’re making some good progress. I was given a donjoy playmaker for stability before/after surgery. Actually, after surgery my OS didn’t want me using anything, but I used the donjoy for the first few weeks for a little added stability on snow and ice. I doubt you need to worry about that anyway. I was given one of those TEMS units too (kneehab). I guess maybe it helped some early on, but it seemed like I was able to accomplish more in the gym within a short period of time than I could by shocking my quad, but who knows. I’d have been happier if my insurance covered the cryo-cuff instead of the kneehab unit since I think the icing/compression was more beneficial than zapping.

Obviously different schools of thought here and a lot of it depends on the extent of the injury beyond the ACL. I’ve also been told that this brace will do little to nothing to prevent another injury, but it is also a far cry from braces like the Defiance III, etc. that might. I was psyched to ditch the brace too and remember feeling really good about the gains in ROM, longer sessions on the stationary bike, more weight, reps, workouts in a day, etc., but at 3 or 4 weeks in you don’t need to rush things.

I was just looking at the Defiance III on-line. That thing is damn sexy! I’ll be just as happy if I can return to skiing without though, or maybe just use the playmaker the first couple of day for confidence. I figure I’ll be roughly 10 months out by then though so hopefully won’t be much of an issue.

wow, lots of good stuff here.

Leroy, sorry to hear! hope things turn around. Laying low for a bit is prabably a good idea. patellar tendonitis needs additional treatment and rehab so find out about that. I would be asking why this developed in the 1st place to help correct the issue.

I have the Defiance II I think, it has the curved top that goes across the quad. very comfortable but I was told I shouldn't have to wear it once everything is complete but that's the brace I wore from week 2.5 to 6.

Ringwood is about an hour away and I really appreciate the offer but I am not ready for any kin dof climbing, I tried a little this weekend and my ankle could not handle it. Overall, I rode almost a hundred miles this past week including indoors trainer. 80 outdoors on hard pack rails to trails so I am feeling good about that. My legs are shot this AM.

Oh yeah BB, it only looks fast. Top speed is only around 22mph. Usually POV makes everything look slow and flat. I must have done something wrong...

The chest mount for the GoPro is $$$ for bike stuff. Can't wait to play with the POV on snow!

That's right, I'm gonna be one of those gapers with a GoPro you see at the mountain and think; "nothing good can come of this".

Yeah I have the chest mount, I have been a gaper long before you! It really did look much faster; more like and average speed of 22. Regardless, I can't wait to hit it.

Originally Posted by BoatBound

Leroy, sorry to hear! hope things turn around. Laying low for a bit is prabably a good idea. patellar tendonitis needs additional treatment and rehab so find out about that. I would be asking why this developed in the 1st place to help correct the issue.
.

I think i just overdid it on the quad exercises and perhaps didnt do enough to strengthen my hamstring, i felt some soreness with the ham and thought it was best not to push through it a few weeks ago, now I realize thats the one area where pushing through pain is a good thing still. I've been doing onlyl excessive bike and hamstring stretches and exercises along ice and elevation for a few days now and things seem to be improving a lot, in fact I am already barely even noticing the pain in the pateler tendon, I think (hope) once my hamstring is just a little stronger it will be a none issue.

Stoked on fighting forest fires about 10 months from now hopefully.

Not a minute too soon Leroy; you're sorely needed!

Hope we get some rain soon and no lightning! Snow would be fine too.

It's been a bit over 4 months. Reached 130 today with a lot of help from the PT, but we hit it. So there knee.

A bit of a set back. Met with the doc, everything is solid. The graft feels strong and I've made great progress getting strength back in my quad and hamstring. I fully expected her to tell me to soar off on my bike and hit the local trails.

Apparently, I am forbidden to ride singletrack until I hit the 6 month mark. Fire roads and double track are a-ok, but not singletrack? If you've ever ridden deer creek road or the fire roads up on the mountain, you know why this is damn silly. I understand nothing techy, no big drops, no falls, etc. But seriously?

The doc stated it was a small chance that something could happen, but that she didn't want to go through a repair if I did happen to do something.

My little bro is coming up mid august and I am teaching the kid how to ride. Am I just stubborn and stupid? Or is my doc just being extra cautious because she's writing a damn paper about my recovery with arthofibrosis and wants everything to go smoothly?

I'm looking for another opinion. Fellow ACL classmates, when did you get the green light for some mild, sexy, flowy beautiful singletrack?

Gypsy,

I had my 6mo visit with my ortho last week. I mentioned this thread and the different advice regarding cycling, flats, clipless, singletrack, etc. He basically said he didn't think clipless Vs flats makes that much of a difference (I think it could, but that's beside the point). He did tell me at around 9 weeks that I'd be OK to ride, but suggested avoiding mountain biking until week 12 or so. Not sure what his personal level of experience is with cycling, road Vs mtn, clipless Vs flat, etc. but the bottom line I got from him was do whatever you want within reason and exercise common sense.

I told him I was mountain biking pretty early on (12 weeks), but backing off (walking) the more technical sections. He said he's had a number of patients who've gone back to biking or running sooner than he recommended, but that it usually turned out OK. He's repeatedly stressed that the surgery itself, graft, etc. is only a small piece of the puzzle. What you do afterwards makes much more of a difference.

Seems to me that if your graft is solid, which it should be by this point, you should be able to ride singletrack without any problem provided you don't biff it in the middle of a technical section. By the same token, you could just as easily biff it in your driveway and re-injure today or 5 years from now, so take that for whatever it's worth. Obviously nobody wants to risk revision surgery, but it sounds like your ortho's definition of "risk" errs on the side of caution.

I'm happy to report I've just passed the 6 month mark and have been cleared for all sports. I still have some weakness in my hamstring, and get some swelling/pain after a longer ride with more climbing, or a longer hike with a bunch of climbing, but icing seems to take care of it pretty well and it doesn't typically last beyond the day of the ride/hike. OTOH pbourdon and I hiked Squaretop the other day; a little over 5mi and 2000ft of climbing and it kicked my ass! The knee didn't give me too much trouble, but my quads are still sore 4 days later, especially on my good leg. I must be overcompensating (and out of shape). I clearly need to get more of this kind of workout in before the snow starts flying again. I'd like to get 2-3 14'er hikes and an even dozen Loveland Pass rides before ski season. I'm up to 5 LL pass rides and zero 14'ers so obviously I've got a way to go...

3 months till ski season!

hey just had my 4 month test. I had to do a one legged jump test for stability and strength. I passed but I have some more training to strengthen my lateral stability. I lost time due to my ankle injury but I am def' on the track. I am cleared to do any riding as long as its not technical, no drops no rock gardens. DEFINITELY no clipless! Why? because it can take a lot of twisting and stress on the knee to get out. My friends wife just blew out her MCL and ACL riding; she was in a panic trying to miss a dog and wrenched her knee trying to get unclipped; POP.... surgery.. Not worth it..... BUT my Ibis is all tuned up and ready. I put some new CB Mallet 3's on it and I'm ready to roll

I was hiking a 6-8 miles per day all last week up in Steamboat and that was great to get out and do something. Walking on foot trails, rocks and such with the uphill/downhill was really good for the knee. Its sore now but that will heal up.

Good to hear all is good with you all!

Docs are cautious and you could probably ride something like 401 or Dyke now, BUT......is a month or 2 more of waiting worth the slim chance that something might happen and set you back another year or longer? Patience....

Wife and I are rolling into CB in August.

I just did my second bike ride and first actual mnt bike ride since surgery, four months and one week ago. Rode from my house to LCC trail and up most of it, then back down. Told myself I was just going to poke around at the bottom till things got too steep or the knee felt strained, I felt great, just kept going, even passing some people on the uphill. I really felt like rubbing it in their faces, or the faces of their girlfriends that I was 13 weeks post acl surgery because I was just so happy, but didn't want to be a dick. Took it pretty slow on the way down but still aired off a couple little 6" drops with no pain or anything. Knee isn't even sore today.

I'm surprised and fucking STOKED! All that time on the exercise bike paid off big time. I'm definitely going to be cautious still, but the knee isnt even sore today, in fact it feels stronger today than it did yesterday.

Started running last week. Did very slow 12 minute mile on treadmill to see how it would handle. Knee was just a little sore that night, ankle (also injured) was pretty sore. Took day off and ran yesterday 1.3 miles at a little faster pace (ran last .5 mile at 10 minute pace) ankle sore but I think the muscles tendons & ligaments need to strenghten up. Continuing on plyo training focusing on soft landings. coming along well.

You guys all sound really lucky. Although diminished, I still have kneecap/It. band pain that at this point (17 months) will probably never go away. I can do most things now, just differently. I highly doubt I will ever be able to ski more than a couple days a week and in good conditions. I have done some backpacking and made it work, but still can't "lower down" off big steps on the bad knee, backpack or not. Count your blessings.

look into ART therapy. sounds like unless there is some kind of major issue, ART therapy would benefit you. It is very effective therapy that will help release overtightened or overworked muscles, tendons, ligaments.

This is pretty much like massage and trigger release therapy (generalization) that truly works. I have had great success with it as well as several people I know.

http://www.activerelease.com

Tone,
I had an uncomfortable moment lowering down on a hike last week. Doesn't seem like the knee likes that much compression/flexion.

Still biking a lot, and doing some longer hikes. Knee is feeling more stable and still steadily improving.

Good to read about the progress Leroy. Keep it up!

UPS man just brought me some new 179cm solly 2012's and some barons for the 186cm lhasas I never got to use/mount last season. Psyched for ski season! I've already seen some new snow above about 13,000ft. Won't be long now...