2012 Montana Conditions, Stoke and Whatev Thread

[yeahman]

IMO the report means nothing and is basically not worth reading.

QFT

[Bunion 2020]

It's a snow report. It is meant to sell a product so I take it for that as well as some amusement.

I'll take some Hike in/Hike Out HW April deepness all day. The issue is that the actual HW chair hasn't been spinning really at all and the chances of them opening it just to service the like 30 people a day who want to walk back out of Stillwater to the chair is very slim.

We will see on that. No way they will spin HW but the ski down to Challenger isn't that bad from the top of Stillwater. The question is, "will Boyne allow the patrol to do the required AC to open HW and keep it open"?

Time will tell.

[upallnight]

IMO the report means nothing and is basically not worth reading, but they need something for the tourists.

I agree with you — but that report is GOLD and worth reading for comedy. Most reports are silly. Leger's @ JHMR is valuable mainly for guessing how high he was when it was written!

Anyway, if we are having an honest conversation about it (can we? Genuinely not sure if that is possible) — my original question from a long time ago was "where is the publicly accessible raw data?" I had wanted to see if current weather patterns matched claims of average annual snowfall. My suspicion was that climate change or some other effect was going on that meant a different reality than average #s from 20 years ago.

Wind transport happens everywhere. Every local knows that a 6" storm with an east wind skis different than a 6" storm with wind out of the north. That's where the raw data comes in.

We've got to have some consistent standard for snowfall and miles of wind that we can look at from day to day, month to month and year over year. I don't look at snow reports locally — I look at raw data. Hell, even certain avy centers are putting out reports with more proselytizing than data. That's the world we seem to inhabit.

HOW a mountain skis is a very different question than "what was the weather/precip received?" The former is subjective; the latter SHOULD be factual (IMO).

We've also had "snow-inflation" everywhere — particularly social media. 2" that billows up to the shins has become "boot deep"; 12" that hits someone in the leg is now "thigh deep". Why care about inflating conditions, or over saturating images, or playing all music at max volume? We lose all the subtlety and we cheapen the REAL big days.

Photos taken when someone's skis are perpendicular to the fall line are very one at the apex with skis down the fall line. There's artistry in photography — but the savvy viewer knows what's up. One is the "marketing snow report" and the other is the "weather station."

It really is all about the wind more than most places.

...

It's great, but sneaky pockets of 12-14" because the wind was going X direction from X time at X speed and there are like 10 people actually hunting around off the top. That's pretty rad too.

Every place (ski resort or backcountry spot) is affected by the wind. It constantly amazes (and amuses) me how few people pay attention to stuff like that and wind up skiing bad snow on a day when incredible can be found. Oh well!

And your last point nails it: how much wind and where was it from? Key questions.

[Lomax]

I'll take some Hike in/Hike Out HW April deepness all day. The issue is that the actual HW chair hasn't been spinning really at all and the chances of them opening it just to service the like 30 people a day who want to walk back out of Stillwater to the chair is very slim.
.

but you dont need HW lift, you just need to get to the road (Lazy Jack) that takes you to iron horse or challenger
edit- what Bunion said

[Bunion 2020]

@UAN.

https://www.mtavalanche.com/weather

Lot of remote weather stations on here at the pin markers. Big Sky has about 5 on mountain stations that are fairly representative.

Lobo/Barvaria/Lookout Ridge for temps, RH & SWE, 24 hr and total snow. Lone Peak Summit and Jack Creek for wind/temps.

The Y/C weather network is a really well maintained and funded system.

[NWFlow]

Does anywhere use "miles of wind" as a metric besides the tetons?

[east or bust]

Does anywhere use "miles of wind" as a metric besides the tetons?

Maybe you already know this, but this is a good educational piece on wind speed vs wind run.

https://www.weathersolve.com/what-is...-and-wind-run/

[byates1]

just move the entire operation closer to island park, thousand feet of snow there

[yeahman]

HW chair was running today for good laps on cold snow. My daughter is home for spring break so we made the best of it. Snowfield also had decent choppy chalk. Hard to believe this was my first North Summit lap of the year.

[SUPERIOR]

Does anywhere use "miles of wind" as a metric besides the tetons?

I’ve had this discussion with a JHMR forecaster and I absolutely think the metric is important. However, it’s only relative to the particular mountain in question.

[Leftyt]

Thank you for contacting Big Sky Resort Mountain Services!

That is correct, Six Shooter, Lone Tree, Headwaters, Derringer, Jayhawk, Pony, Stage Coach, and Pea Shooter will have their last day of operation on 4/13. Iron Horse is located on the Madison Base side and will run until closing day.
If you have any further questions or need assistance, please don't hesitate to contact us at (800) 548-4486 or mountainservices@bigskyresort.com. We are happy to help.

Cheers,

Big Sky Resort | Mountain Services


The response to my email about lifts being closed on April 14th

[upallnight]

@UAN.

https://www.mtavalanche.com/weather

Lot of remote weather stations on here at the pin markers. Big Sky has about 5 on mountain stations that are fairly representative.

Lobo/Barvaria/Lookout Ridge for temps, RH & SWE, 24 hr and total snow. Lone Peak Summit and Jack Creek for wind/temps.

The Y/C weather network is a really well maintained and funded system.

Thanks, Bunion. You were one who replied with data when the question last came up. I always appreciate looking directly at station data as an objective measure, then building an assessment from there.

Does anywhere use "miles of wind" as a metric besides the tetons?

Not sure — on days when I am particularly interested I look at the raw 15-minute data over 24h (speed, direction(s), duration) from key stations.

"Miles of wind" is for when people are trying to simplify.

I’ve had this discussion with a JHMR forecaster and I absolutely think the metric is important. However, it’s only relative to the particular mountain in question.

This whole discussion is about specificity. @Whiteroom Guardian's comment is about knowing where there are pockets given snow & wind. The work is in taking the data at a station (or more likely stations) and translating that to where the actual best snow will be on a given day.

Think Open Snow but HYPER local!

[Norseman]

couple phonepics from bbowl

[I Skied Bandini Mountain]

fish fuck in water!

[Bunion 2020]

Winter is back. Last snow in the front yard died yesterday, starting over this am.

[I Skied Bandini Mountain]

In the last couple of hours it has rained, then snowed, then a mix of rain and snow. This can mean only one thing - it's track and field and lacrosse season.

[yeahman]

It was dumping hard at Big Sky this morning with a few much needed inches accumulating and making the groomers tolerable. Still grabby funky stuff low down though.

[NWFlow]

I’ve had this discussion with a JHMR forecaster and I absolutely think the metric is important. However, it’s only relative to the particular mountain in question.

I'm sure it's a useful metric if one is used to communicating wind conditions in that way, I just have only ever hear it used regularly in the tetons. Does anywhere else use wind run (thanks for the terminology EOB) regularly?

[Harry]

User name checks out.


Sent from my iPad using TGR Forums

[Djongo Unchained]

I'm sure it's a useful metric if one is used to communicating wind conditions in that way, I just have only ever hear it used regularly in the tetons. Does anywhere else use wind run (thanks for the terminology EOB) regularly?

Miles of wind in JH works like this for me:
400 miles a typically windy storm cycle.
500 miles better as windrifts will be more evident.
600 miles, kinda the line where it gets different. Definite wind loading concerns and deposition on lee sides are obvious and becoming dangerous.
700+ miles and likely closures, high to extreme danger for wind loads and hudge cornices and wind aided deposition on all aspects.
I've seen 900 miles only a few times. Blowdown storm days.
Pushing 40 mph steady for a day is intense.

[Talisman]

Thanks for explaining the relative meaning of the metric wind run. his is my firs ime considering "wind run."
The easiest way to spot the difference between wind speed and wind run is to consider the units of measure. Most people are familiar with some common units of measure for wind speed, such as metres per second, kilometres per hour, miles per hour, knots, and so on. Wind speed measurements are instantaneous velocities of wind movement recorded by the monitoring station at set intervals of measure. But the units for wind run, including ‘kilometres of wind’ and ‘miles of wind’, are less intuitive. Wind run is actually derived from the wind speed measurements recorded by the monitoring station and measures the quantity of wind movement at the measuring location.

Say, for instance, a monitoring station records wind speed in 30-minute intervals. If the average wind speed between two intervals is 70 kilometres per hour, then the wind run is calculated as follows:
70 km/hr x 0.5 hrs = 35 km of wind

Miles of wind in JH works like this for me:
400 miles a typically windy storm cycle.
500 miles better as windrifts will be more evident.
600 miles, kinda the line where it gets different. Definite wind loading concerns and deposition on lee sides are obvious and becoming dangerous.
700+ miles and likely closures, high to extreme danger for wind loads and hudge cornices and wind aided deposition on all aspects.
I've seen 900 miles only a few times. Blowdown storm days.
Pushing 40 mph steady for a day is intense.

[Bunion 2020]

RE: Miles of wind. Yeah a Tetons kind thing.

Has some meaning in in a mountain range where the ski area is not Alone on a Mountain peak and isolated from most neighboring peaks.

Since we are discussing Big Snivel, winds greater than a given threshold (somewhere around 40+ MPH) scour the entire thing. These can "groom" a surface down to smooth goodness. The do not end up loading favorable areas. The snow just blows away to east BF Egypt or sublimates back into the dry atsmosphere.

[Djongo Unchained]

^^^^

I actually deleted the paragraph about how different the two hills are and how I suspect that Lone peak has a max before it all goes to windscour.

We're a leeward ridgeline and youse guys are a high point amongst lower ranges...

[Bunion 2020]

^^^ Yep.

But still good knowledge.

[Jumper Bones]

Nerds!

cue Ogre gif